Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion - Page 262

MixMonkey · 10-09-2020, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus05

Along the way I ran into a few situations that gave rise to new questions.

There are a couple of places where throwing a switch on a plug in will change the behavior of a parameter. For example, if you change the modulation mode on the Replika delay unit from Phaser to Filter, the Feedback knob changes from being a stepped parameter with 6 positions to a regular knob requiring an acceleration curve. Is there any way to work with both scenarios?

Check that the stepped parameter works with a rotary encoder. If it does, you're done. If it doesn't, use a fader.

Quote:

Sticking with Replika, the fader mapped to the Depth parameter keeps jumping to all the way up or all the way down depending on where I let go of it. The parameter doesn't jump with the fader but when I touch the fader again it does. At first I thought it was a hardware issue but no other VST's exhibit this behavior. Any ideas?

Looking at your .zon file, you've defined acceleration for faders. Acceleration is only for encoders, ie a widget defined as Encoder in the .mst, not for widgets defined as Fader7Bit (or 14Bit)

Quote:

I couldn't get buttons to work in FX zones so I used Rotaries with steps as toggles. Getting button presses figured out is my next project.

Buttons are defined like this:

Code:

 RotaryPush1 FXParam 0 [ 0.0 1.0 ]

This will toggle between 0 and 1 (usually on and off)

Code:

RotaryPush1 FXParam 0 [ 0.0 0.26 0.51 0.76 ]

This will cycle round 4 values- try this with Replika's Time Mode (straight, dotted, triplet, ms)

Quote:

I'm also wondering how to use Rotary push in FX zones. For example, if I'm using an EQ and I'd like to switch between the band frequency and Q. Would I just include a RotaryPush zone in the same .zon file as the EQ?

This is actually more complicated than it sounds and probably involves the use of GoZone within the FX Zone, which I'm not sure is working properly at the moment. An easier way to achieve the same thing is to use a modifier definition for Q, say. So:

Code:

Rotary1 FXParam 5  //Mid Frequency
Shift+Rotary1 FXParam 6  //Mid Q

Lastly, don't leave stuff undefined in the .zon file. In your Replika.zon, you have two lines that begin "Rotary", some FXParam at the end not assigned to any widget and quite a few syntax errors. All these things will produce unpredictable results, things seemingly unrelated to the actual cause.

siniarch · 10-09-2020, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Lastly, don't leave stuff undefined in the .zon file. In your Replika.zon, you have two lines that begin "Rotary", some FXParam at the end not assigned to any widget and quite a few syntax errors. All these things will produce unpredictable results, things seemingly unrelated to the actual cause.

Wow, MixMonkey. I may have to hire you to teach me CSI more thoroughly.

But seriously. Once I get my controller done, I may need your help. I know people will want to customize the controller whichever way they want, but I will certainly have to have one or two basic templates that can get people started.

As always, thanks for all the info and your help.

MixMonkey · 10-09-2020, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siniarch

Wow, MixMonkey. I may have to hire you to teach me CSI more thoroughly.

Hopefully you can benefit from all the mistakes I've made

Quote:

But seriously. Once I get my controller done, I may need your help. I know people will want to customize the controller whichever way they want, but I will certainly have to have one or two basic templates that can get people started.

What sort of controller are you building?
Templates are definitely the key here. Particularly for FX zones, where it will be used over and over again.

Quote:

As always, thanks for all the info and your help.

You're welcome

siniarch · 10-09-2020, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

What sort of controller are you building?

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=237950

a Controller mainly for FX (but I'm sure people will use it for other things as well:

1. 24 encoders
2. Each encoder has Push button function
3. Each encoder has OLED screen above it (to describe current function)
4. Each encoder has 18 LED Ring around it
5. Each Encoder has touch sensitivity
6. 8 custom buttons.

It will be laid out with 3 rows of 8 encoders.

Getting close to having all the firmware done and having to customize files for CSI. Obviously it will be important to get as many FXs mapped to it as possible.

MixMonkey · 10-09-2020, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siniarch

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=237950

a Controller mainly for FX (but I'm sure people will use it for other things as well:

1. 24 encoders
2. Each encoder has Push button function
3. Each encoder has OLED screen above it (to describe current function)
4. Each encoder has 18 LED Ring around it
5. Each Encoder has touch sensitivity
6. 8 custom buttons.

It will be laid out with 3 rows of 8 encoders.

Getting close to having all the firmware done and having to customize files for CSI. Obviously it will be important to get as many FXs mapped to it as possible.

Looking good

I had a quick skim through the other thread, interesting to watch the design slowly morph into a Mackie C4

(albeit with 24 touch sensitive rotaries instead of 32 plain ones)

Geoff's points about keeping the layout 'dumb' and imposing a function/layout on it in software are well founded.

What protocol are you planning on using?

siniarch · 10-09-2020, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Looking good

I had a quick skim through the other thread, interesting to watch the design slowly morph into a Mackie C4

(albeit with 24 touch sensitive rotaries instead of 32 plain ones)

Geoff's points about keeping the layout 'dumb' and imposing a function/layout on it in software are well founded.

What protocol are you planning on using?

Initially it will be Midi. I don't know anything about Midi 2.0 and very little about OSC. But I did install an RJ45 jack into the main board so in the future I could support OSC.

I'll take any suggestions.

Cragster · 10-09-2020, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Hi folks. I just got a hand-me-down iPad Air2 and i've created a TouchOSC Mixer setup for it using CSI.

Here's the Mixer screen:

You can select a track and go to the FX screen:

The FX menu (teal colored) appears vertically to the left of the rotaries, FX can be selected here. You can move from channel to channel to edit FX without leaving the FX page, using the Track Select buttons (purple) at the top of the screen. The FX clears and the FX menu updates as you change track.

Returning to the Mixer screen, you can adjust send levels for a selected track by pressing the sends button:

The top row of buttons (brown) access further zones of 16 buttons. Pushing the "Auto" button for instance, reveals:

....with a "BACK" button to return you to the top level.

Buttons C to H are currently unassigned, but the menus they access are defined in the MM_iPad.zon file, so you can easily fill them up with your own Actions.

The bottom row of 8 brown buttons are assigned directly to Actions, rather than accessing additional button zones.

On the Mixer screen, pushing "ALT" changes pan to width:

Pushing "Shift" on the mixer screen reveals 2nd Fn buttons:

I've included a handful of FX zones to go with. I strongly recommend downloading the free TDR plugins to get an idea of how smooth the control can be, the parameter scaling in the Rea plugins is really pretty dreadful.

File set uploaded to the Stash:

https://stash.reaper.fm/40448/MixMon...Controller.zip

It's a good idea to use the included CSI build, as a couple of things broke in the most recent one...

That is really cool !!!!

todoublez · 10-09-2020, 06:11 PM

Hi love the CSI ! such a powerful tool.

Recently I experienced some odd behavior in Touch mode (automation) with my
FaderPort2.

here's a short video of it.

I also tested Latch mode (automation) .wrks perfectly as expected.

I'll be very appreciated if someone can help.

my Surface (MST) Code:

Code:

/ *************************************************************
/ Author: Johan Steensland
/ Reaper forum alias: Cemark
/
/ Filename: FPv2.mst
/ Date: June 2020, v1
/
/ Purpose: mst file that defines the capabilities of the
/          surface Faderport v2
/
/
/ Use: You may use this file for all purposes except commercial
/
/ Comment: Make sure your surface is set to Studio One mode.
/
/ Note:  Widgets related to "active" channel in my zone-file, has suffix "1".
/        This is due to CSI syntax and the |-character in the zone files.
/        However, Touch, Write and Read do not have the suffix, because I do not
/        use them for the channel (I use them for actions).
/        However, users who want to use them for the "active" channel might
/        want to add the suffix "1" to these widgets.
/
/ Bugs:  The rotary is operational but does not use its full
/        capability.
/ **************************************************************



/ **********************************************
/ ********** Upper section *********************
/ **********************************************


Widget Solo1
	Press 90 08 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 08 7f 90 08 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Mute1
	Press 90 10 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 10 7f 90 10 00
WidgetEnd

Widget RecordArm1
	Press 90 00 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 00 7f 90 00 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Shift
	Press 90 46 7f 90 46 00
WidgetEnd


Widget Bypass1
	Press 90 03 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 03 7f 90 03 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Touch
	Press 90 4d 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 4d 7f 90 4d 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Write
	Press 90 4b 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 4b 7f 90 4b 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Read
	Press 90 4a 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 4a 7f 90 4a 00
WidgetEnd




/ ************************************************
/ ************** Middle section ******************
/ ************************************************

Widget Prev
	Press 90 2E 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget Next
	Press 90 2F 7f
WidgetEnd

Widget RotaryPress1
	Press 90 20 7f 90 20 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Rotary1
/	Encoder b0 10 7f [ > 01-3f < 41-7f ]
	Encoder b0 10 7f
WidgetEnd


/ Rotary outputs:
/ CW: from 01 to 3f
/ CCW: from 41 to 7f




/ ************************************************
/ ************** Lower section *******************
/ ************************************************

Widget Link
	Press 90 05 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 05 7f 90 05 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Pan
	Press 90 2a 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 2a 7f 90 2a 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Channel
	Press 90 36 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 36 7f 90 36 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Scroll
	Press 90 38 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 38 7f 90 38 00
WidgetEnd


Widget Master
	Press 90 3a 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 3a 7f 90 3a 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Click
	Press 90 3b 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 3b 7f 90 3b 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Section
	Press 90 3c 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 3c 7f 90 3c 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Marker
	Press 90 3d 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 3d 7f 90 3d 00
WidgetEnd




/ ************************************************
/ ***************** Transport ********************
/ ************************************************

Widget Rewind
	Press 90 5b 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 5b 7f 90 5b 00
WidgetEnd

Widget FastForward
	Press 90 5c 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 5c 7f 90 5c 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Stop
	Press 90 5d 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 5d 7f 90 5d 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Play
	Press 90 5e 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 5e 7f 90 5e 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Record
	Press 90 5f 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 5f 7f 90 5f 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Cycle
	Press 90 56 7f
	FB_TwoState 90 56 7f 90 56 00
WidgetEnd




/ ************************************************
/ ***************** Fader ************************
/ ************************************************

Widget Fader1
	Fader14Bit e0 7f 7f
	FB_Fader14Bit e0 7f 7f
WidgetEnd

 Widget FaderTouch1
	Press 90 68 7f 90 68 00
 WidgetEnd

My Zone File code:

Code:

/ *************************************************************
/ Author: Johan Steensland
/ Reaper forum alias: Cemark
/
/ Filename: FPv2.zon
/ Date: June 2020, v1
/
/ Purpose: Zone file that defines my personal CSI bindings for
/          my surface Faderport v2
/
/ Uses: FPv2.mst (There are several files with this name in circulation).
/       Bindings for my favorite plugins can be found in the
/       files "fx_plugin.zon"
/
/ Use: You may use this file for all purposes except commercial
/
/ Comment: This Zone file follows the syntax/semantics defined in 
/          the CSI Beta build xxx.
/
/ Note: The widget Link acts as "Home" globally. That is, if
/       you ever leave the Home zone, you can always go back by 
/       pressing Link.
/
/ Note: Some personal actions are not yet defined in Reaper, such as
/       the one for FX chain for clean/distorted guitar.
/ **************************************************************

Zone Home
	OnFXFocus 	MapFocusedFXToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		"Global|"
		"Track Control|1-1"
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone "Global|"
	Shift 		Shift
	Rewind 		Rewind
	FastForward	FastForward
	Stop 		Stop
	Play 		Play
	Record 		Record
	Cycle		Reaper "1068" 	// Toggle Repeat
	Section		Reaper "40306" 	// Insert region from time selection and edit ..., OK
	Shift+Section	Reaper "40615" 	//remove region near cursor, OK
	Marker 		Reaper "_RSc0c8e7d5ce81e5d829c6d788bd692eb9c81ea6ab"	//Insert marker, OK
	Shift+Marker 	Reaper "40613" 	//remove marker near cursor, OK
	Click 		Reaper 	"40364" // Toggle metronome, OK
	Touch			Reaper "41109" // Toggle track automation mode to touch/trim, OK
	Shift+Touch		Reaper "40404" // Set track automation mode to latch, OK
 	Read			Reaper "_RSb83805462333cdd117fb77594a03dfd26d8c67c8" // Set track automation mode to Read/Trim, OK
	Shift+Read		Reaper "40088" // Set All tracks automation mode to trim/read
	Channel			Reaper "40293" // View routing and I/O for current/last touched track, OK
	Shift+Write		Reaper "40088" // Set all tracks automation mode to trim/read, OK
	Shift+Pan		Reaper "_SWS_AWPANDUALPAN" // Set selected tracks pan mode to dual pan
	Write			Reaper "_RS529bf7c9354c397e77428f826c4997ac3cf29a09" // Set track automation mode to Latch/trim, OK
	Pan			    Reaper "_SWS_AWPANBALANCENEW" // Set selected tracks pan mode to stereo balance
	Shift+Channel   Reaper "24907" // Bass FX chain
	Master		GoZone 	"Master"
	Scroll		GoZone	"Zoom"
	Shift+Scroll	GoZone	"Vertical Zoom"
ZoneEnd

Zone "Track Control|"
	SelectedTrackNavigator
	Prev		Reaper 40286 	//Select previous track, OK
	Next		Reaper 40285 	//Select next track, OK
	Bypass|	    Reaper 	"_RS23c5beae0f5e2dfddcab7ecf8fd0337f78a4539d" // Toggle wet/dry for focused FX, OK
	RecordArm| 	TrackRecordArm
	Solo|  		TrackSolo
	Mute|		TrackMute
	Fader|	  	TrackVolume
	FaderTouch|  	TrackTouch	
	Rotary|		TrackPan
ZoneEnd

Zone "Master"
	MasterTrackNavigator
	Fader1 		TrackVolume
	Master		GoZone Home
	Link		GoZone Home
ZoneEnd


Zone "Zoom"
	Prev		Reaper	"1011" // 
	Next		Reaper	"1012"
	Scroll		GoZone Home
	Link		GoZone Home
ZoneEnd

Zone "Vertical Zoom"
	Prev		Reaper	"40112" // 
	Next		Reaper	"40111"
	Scroll		GoZone Home
	Link		GoZone Home
	Shift+Scroll	GoZone Home
ZoneEnd

MixMonkey · 10-09-2020, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siniarch

Initially it will be Midi. I don't know anything about Midi 2.0 and very little about OSC. But I did install an RJ45 jack into the main board so in the future I could support OSC.

I'll take any suggestions.

MIDI is fine. I'd go with the Mackie protocol, why re-invent the wheel?

Everything you have on your surface is supported by it, with the possible exception of the display, as the Mackie displays only have two lines.

Maybe start with a simple, large font, two line display using the Mackie protocol to get the whole prototype working, then tweak the display sysex later if you want to make it more detailed/prettier.

The rest of the surface is pretty standard fare. Endless encoders implies increment/decrement controller data rather than absolute values, so no resolution issues or 128 step limits there.

Send out different values for CW and CCW rotation as the control is turned faster or slower (the C4 rotary outputs 4 different values each way, the MCU and XTs output 15, probably aim somwhere in the middle (the acceleration control in CSI works really nicely)

Touch control is note on/note off, as are the buttons. The buttons have LEDs for 2 state feedback, yes?

Make sure there is no internal connection between the control components (encoder, buttons, touch) and visual feedback components (display, encoder ring, button LEDs). The visual feedback is driven only by the host, not the controls on the surface. In MIDI parlance, this would be "Local Off".

Connection to the host by USB is to be preferred over MIDI- you can't rely on people having a MIDI interface these days. Stick to the driverless, class compliant approach.

MixMonkey · 10-09-2020, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todoublez

Hi love the CSI ! such a powerful tool.

Recently I experienced some odd behavior in Touch mode (automation) with my
FaderPort2.

I'll be very appreciated if someone can help.

Touch mode is broken in the last version of CSI, try this one instead. And maybe make those GIFs a bit smaller

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/40308/CSI%20beta-30.zip

Delineation · 10-09-2020, 07:18 PM

I think I'm going to bow out of this Reaper program, folks. got the files for the ICON G2 for CSI, but still was a bunch of nonsense. For example, every time I press play all the faders jump up even if they are down. Getting this to simply work with my DAW controller is like owning a BMW. For those who don't know what that's like, basically you spend more time trying to get it to do what you want than you do driving it. It's 2020; Plug and play should be the way (or close but this isn't even that). I really don't want to spend the cheese on a monthly Pro Fools or anything else but I really don't want to be forced to point and click my way through sessions like I did about 20 years ago, hence the DAW controller, but It shouldn't be my task as the end user to have to code a program that I use anymore than a carpenter should have to make a hammer or saw living in the 21st century. The tool just needs to work with your hands, and in this case that's the users DAW controller. Even a simple mapping feature like in Reason would be fine. Thanks for all the help but I suppose for old timers like me It's too much to have to dissect a program, and code basic things just to use my hands on a functioning fader strip and transport control. Cheers.

Geoff Waddington · 10-09-2020, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delineation

I think I'm going to bow out of this Reaper program, folks. got the files for the ICON G2 for CSI, but still was a bunch of nonsense. For example, every time I press play all the faders jump up even if they are down. Getting this to simply work with my DAW controller is like owning a BMW. For those who don't know what that's like, basically you spend more time trying to get it to do what you want than you do driving it. It's 2020; Plug and play should be the way (or close but this isn't even that). I really don't want to spend the cheese on a monthly Pro Fools or anything else but I really don't want to be forced to point and click my way through sessions like I did about 20 years ago, hence the DAW controller, but It shouldn't be my task as the end user to have to code a program that I use anymore than a carpenter should have to make a hammer or saw living in the 21st century. The tool just needs to work with your hands, and in this case that's the users DAW controller. Even a simple mapping feature like in Reason would be fine. Thanks for all the help but I suppose for old timers like me It's too much to have to dissect a program, and code basic things just to use my hands on a functioning fader strip and transport control. Cheers.

Sorry for your frustration, the flexibility CSI provides definitely comes at a price, it's definitely not in the plug and play category. You've probably already tried this but just in case you haven't -- maybe try putting the G2 into MCU mode and use either the stock Reaper one, or Klinke's, which a lot of folks like.

todoublez · 10-09-2020, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Touch mode is broken in the last version of CSI, try this one instead. And maybe make those GIFs a bit smaller

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/40308/CSI%20beta-30.zip

Many thx ! Yes, I'll make'em smaller next time

unfortunately.. still not wrking. The touch mode still broken here.

Pompeysie · 10-09-2020, 11:50 PM

Have you guys seen this?

https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-...utside-the-box

S

Pompeysie · 10-09-2020, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwallin

Geoff has released it as a open source at GitHub.

Great! So, how should I progress with it? Do I need reinstall everything? Will my old files work if I do?

S

todoublez · 10-10-2020, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompeysie

Have you guys seen this?

https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-...utside-the-box

S

yeah so excited about this !
don't know will it wrk with REAPER or not :/

tdc · 10-10-2020, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by todoublez

Many thx ! Yes, I'll make'em smaller next time

unfortunately.. still not wrking. The touch mode still broken here.

If I am right - touch mode has never been working though? I believe that Geoff is aware of it and it is part of his current refactoring.

todoublez · 10-10-2020, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdc

If I am right - touch mode has never been working though? I believe that Geoff is aware of it and it is part of his current refactoring.

ah-ha! I see.
I guess all I can do is wait

thx for the info tdc!

mschnell · 10-10-2020, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompeysie

Have you guys seen this?

https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-...utside-the-box

S

Nice Concept.

Horrible Video.
IMHO placing Rotaries above the display does not make much sense. Two rows at the bottom seem more appropriate.
The video does not show if it's possible to place multiple plugs on the screen at the same time.
-Michael

Cragster · 10-10-2020, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delineation

I think I'm going to bow out of this Reaper program, folks. got the files for the ICON G2 for CSI, but still was a bunch of nonsense. For example, every time I press play all the faders jump up even if they are down. Getting this to simply work with my DAW controller is like owning a BMW. For those who don't know what that's like, basically you spend more time trying to get it to do what you want than you do driving it. It's 2020; Plug and play should be the way (or close but this isn't even that). I really don't want to spend the cheese on a monthly Pro Fools or anything else but I really don't want to be forced to point and click my way through sessions like I did about 20 years ago, hence the DAW controller, but It shouldn't be my task as the end user to have to code a program that I use anymore than a carpenter should have to make a hammer or saw living in the 21st century. The tool just needs to work with your hands, and in this case that's the users DAW controller. Even a simple mapping feature like in Reason would be fine. Thanks for all the help but I suppose for old timers like me It's too much to have to dissect a program, and code basic things just to use my hands on a functioning fader strip and transport control. Cheers.

Hey man just wanted to throw this out there. When I started with CSI I knew NOTHING about nothing. And I mean nothing. But now I've got a setup of 4 controllers. 1 strictly for fx . 1 strictly for sends. With 2 different pages of totally differnt work flows. I dont point and click at all anymore. Sure it takes some work and research and lots of dumb question asking but it's worth it !!!! And like I said theres no one more dumb to this kind of stuff then me. And it didnt take long to catch on . CSI is amazing. I know someone out there has icon g2 files ready to go if you ever decide to try again

MixMonkey · 10-10-2020, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompeysie

Have you guys seen this?

https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-...utside-the-box

S

Not sure I would want to run all my plugins within another plugin to be able to control them. However, this method is what makes it compatible across multiple DAWs, which makes perfect business sense

Not sure what happens when you collaborate with someone who doesn't have the controller.

Also, having to click on the plugin on the screen to switch control is pretty lame. The whole point of hardware control is that you don't need to touch the mouse.

I much prefer CSI's SelectedTrack/FXMenu/GoFXSlot system and I don't usually bother displaying the plugin GUI- I make better creative choices with it hidden.

Geoff Waddington · 10-10-2020, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompeysie

Have you guys seen this?

https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-...utside-the-box

S

Ugggh

WAY too busy.

WAY too big.

Reminds me of a cross amongst Avid Docker / Slate Raven / Dragon Midi, with all the worst features of each

Since it offers upsampling, that implies the audio stream passes through it, which implies buffers, which implies latency !

IMHO they missed this one by a LOT.

No thanks.

Just my 2c

MixMonkey · 10-10-2020, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Since it offers upsampling, that implies the audio stream passes through it, which implies buffers, which implies latency !

Actually quite clever from a marketing perspective, since it turns a product shortcoming (needing to run all your plugins within a wrapper) into a product feature (imagine how much better your plugins will sound when they're upsampled!)

It doesn't matter if the plugins actually will sound better after being upsampled (most won't)- sell the sizzle, not the steak!

siniarch · 10-10-2020, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delineation

I think I'm going to bow out of this Reaper program, folks. got the files for the ICON G2 for CSI, but still was a bunch of nonsense. For example, every time I press play all the faders jump up even if they are down. Getting this to simply work with my DAW controller is like owning a BMW. For those who don't know what that's like, basically you spend more time trying to get it to do what you want than you do driving it. It's 2020; Plug and play should be the way (or close but this isn't even that). I really don't want to spend the cheese on a monthly Pro Fools or anything else but I really don't want to be forced to point and click my way through sessions like I did about 20 years ago, hence the DAW controller, but It shouldn't be my task as the end user to have to code a program that I use anymore than a carpenter should have to make a hammer or saw living in the 21st century. The tool just needs to work with your hands, and in this case that's the users DAW controller. Even a simple mapping feature like in Reason would be fine. Thanks for all the help but I suppose for old timers like me It's too much to have to dissect a program, and code basic things just to use my hands on a functioning fader strip and transport control. Cheers.

Sorry to hear this. If you want to do a video call, I can try and help. I have the same controller. Unfortunately, my studio is broken down right now so I couldn't follow along, but I could guide you via video chat. Let me know if you are interested.

MixMonkey · 10-10-2020, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdc

If I am right - touch mode has never been working though? I believe that Geoff is aware of it and it is part of his current refactoring.

It's broken in the last build Geoff posted, but not in this earlier one: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/40308/CSI%20beta-30.zip

If you don't need the Eucon changes that were made in the last build (@tdc I suspect that maybe you do) then try this build. Touch mode is working fine here.

MixMonkey · 10-10-2020, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus05

Along the way I ran into a few situations that gave rise to new questions.

There are a couple of places where throwing a switch on a plug in will change the behavior of a parameter. For example, if you change the modulation mode on the Replika delay unit from Phaser to Filter, the Feedback knob changes from being a stepped parameter with 6 positions to a regular knob requiring an acceleration curve. Is there any way to work with both scenarios?

Sticking with Replika, the fader mapped to the Depth parameter keeps jumping to all the way up or all the way down depending on where I let go of it. The parameter doesn't jump with the fader but when I touch the fader again it does. At first I thought it was a hardware issue but no other VST's exhibit this behavior. Any ideas?

@Seamus05 I took a look at Replika and cooked up an FX.zon that works well here. Try it out and see if it works for you. If it does, you can pick it apart to see how things like the three position buttons work. It would also make a good template for other FX on your XTouch Compact.

Also notice how stuff that isn't used is "NoAction" This is a good idea because otherwise what was there before will still be "live".

Code:

Zone "VST: Replika (Native Instruments GmbH)"
SelectedTrackNavigator
    Rotary1         FXParam 9 [ (0.001,0.005,0.025,0.05,0.1) ]      //Saturation
    RotaryPush1     FXParam 8 [ 0.0 0.34 1.0 ]                      //DelayMode
    Fader1          FXParam 6                                       //Input

    Rotary2         FXParam 10 [ (0.001,0.005,0.025,0.05,0.1) ]     //LoCut
    RotaryPush2     NoAction
    Fader2          FXParam 7                                       //Output

    Rotary3         FXParam 11 [ (0.001,0.005,0.025,0.05,0.1) ]     //HiCut
    RotaryPush3     FXParam 4 [ 0.0 1.0 ]                           //StereoMode
    Fader3          FXParam 2                                       //Mix

    Rotary4         FXParam 1 [ (0.001,0.005,0.025,0.05,0.1) ]      //DelayTime
    RotaryPush4     FXParam 0 [ 0.0 0.34 1.0 ]                      //TimeMode
    Fader4          NoAction

    Rotary5         FXParam 3 [ (0.001,0.005,0.025,0.05,0.1) ]      //Feedback
    RotaryPush5     FXParam 15 [ 0.0 1.0 ]                          //Sync
    Fader5          NoAction

    Rotary6         FXParam 13 [ (0.001,0.005,0.025,0.05,0.1) ]     //CutOff
    RotaryPush6     FXParam 12 [ 0.0 0.34 1.0 ]                     //ModMode
    Fader6          NoAction

    Rotary7         FXParam 14 [ (0.001,0.005,0.025,0.05,0.1) ]     //Depth
    RotaryPush7     FXParam 17 [ 0.0 0.34 1.0 ]                     //FilterMode
    Fader7          NoAction

    Rotary8         FXParam 16 [ (0.001,0.005,0.025,0.05,0.1) ]     //Rate
    RotaryPush8     FXParam 18 [ 0.0 0.34 1.0 ]                     //Resonance
    Fader8          NoAction
ZoneEnd

poetnprophet · 10-10-2020, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pompeysie

Have you guys seen this?

https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-...utside-the-box

S

wow, never heard of this one. Looks beautiful but if I'm honest, it's in the realm of a very expensive mouse in my opinion and I don't see the actual workflow benefit....especially if only one plugin at a time. And the loading times I'm seeing in the vid....no way. CSI for the win!

MixMonkey · 10-10-2020, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poetnprophet

wow, never heard of this one. Looks beautiful but if I'm honest, it's in the realm of a very expensive mouse in my opinion and I don't see the actual workflow benefit....especially if only one plugin at a time. And the loading times I'm seeing in the vid....no way. CSI for the win!

The thing that puzzles me about it is the screen, as in, why does it have one?

It's shown a few inches away from a monitor that fulfills exactly the same function and that you have to look at in order to click on the wrapper plugin to switch control between plugins.

Am I missing something here?

poetnprophet · 10-10-2020, 03:40 PM

A lot of good points here...I wonder how much they want for that? I just don't understand why nobody is just reinventing the C4, maybe higher reso knobs, oled screens. I think Siniarch has the right idea but we really need someone like Behringer to take that on (NO OFFENSE!), so they can make it cheap like $500 or less. Praying my C4 lasts a lifetime because I really really love this thing and there are no replacements at all for it.

MixMonkey · 10-10-2020, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poetnprophet

A lot of good points here...I wonder how much they want for that? I just don't understand why nobody is just reinventing the C4, maybe higher reso knobs, oled screens. I think Siniarch has the right idea but we really need someone like Behringer to take that on (NO OFFENSE!), so they can make it cheap like $500 or less. Praying my C4 lasts a lifetime because I really really love this thing and there are no replacements at all for it.

The reason no big company will take it on is that it will be difficult to profit from it.

A C4 type device, whilst relatively simple hardware to produce, only makes business sense to a big company if the software support exists for it on multiple DAW platforms.

That requires the co-operation of the DAW manufacturers and their investment of man hours into software development for a hardware product they don't make.

You can see that the issues here are more of a contractual/licensing nature than technical. Which is probably why Mackie stopped making it.

We're extremely lucky to have Geoff's CSI project here on Reaper. The C4 support available here is better than that on Logic, which is the only other platform I know that supports the C4.

Props to @Siniarch, I hope the numbers add up for him. There is undoubtably a demand for what he's making and there are no alternatives out there.

Funkybot · 10-10-2020, 05:06 PM

This is where my dram of MIDI 2.0 solving this comes into play. My understanding is MIDI 2.0 allows devices to communicate not just parameter values but names. So a basic MIDI 2.0 knob box with displays could, in theory, simply read the parameter names via MIDI. Shouldn't require anything else. But you'd need MIDI 2.0 compliant DAWs, MIDI 2.0 being supported in plugins, and then of course someone to build the device.

We're probably a few years away but I think this is a problem that will be solved in the next few years.

siniarch · 10-10-2020, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

There is undoubtably a demand for what he's making and there are no alternatives out there.

Music to my ears. Hahahaha.

But yes, I agree, we are extremely fortunate to have Geoff. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I need to make this thing compatible with other DAWS. But for now, I'm focusing only on REAPER. Once I have it ready there, I'll start investigating how to work with some of the big boys. And also, will start investigating about MIDI 2.0.

Is OSC only compatible with Reaper, or do other DAWS support it?

lubvic · 10-12-2020, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubvic

Hi guys,
just a quick question, is it possible to display a custom text on scribble display pressing a button?
i need to show function buttons description because i always forget them :-D

No one knows a way it can be done?

MixMonkey · 10-12-2020, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubvic

No one knows a way it can be done?

~~What surface do you have?~~ Nevermind.

Put this in your Buttons Zone:

Code:

    Shift+F1	GoZone Fn_Buttons_Display

and add this Zone:

Code:

Zone "Fn_Buttons_Display"
	Shift+F1	GoZone Home
	DisplayUpper1	FixedTextDisplay "F1"
	DisplayUpper2	FixedTextDisplay "F2"
	DisplayUpper3	FixedTextDisplay "F3"
	DisplayUpper4	FixedTextDisplay "F4"
	DisplayUpper5	FixedTextDisplay "F5"
	DisplayUpper6	FixedTextDisplay "F6"
	DisplayUpper7	FixedTextDisplay "F7"
	DisplayUpper8	FixedTextDisplay "F8"
ZoneEnd

Change "F1" to "F8" to the names of the actions assigned to the Fn buttons.

lubvic · 10-13-2020, 01:47 AM

thanks MixMonkey, you are great! :-)

MixMonkey · 10-13-2020, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lubvic

thanks MixMonkey, you are great! :-)

No worries

It did make me think though, if you wanted access to loads more buttons, and have them all labelled so you don't have to remember them, you could build button sub-menus like this:

In the Buttons Zone:

Code:

F1    GoZone "Button_Menu_ScreenSets"

and add the corresponding Zone:

Code:

Zone "Button_Menu_ScreenSets"
    F1              GoZone Home

    RotaryPush1     Reaper "40454"              //Load window set #01
    DisplayUpper    FixedTextDisplay "Mix"
    
    RotaryPush2     Reaper "40455"              //Load window set #02
    DisplayUpper    FixedTextDisplay "Edit"
    
    RotaryPush3     Reaper "40456"
    DisplayUpper    FixedTextDisplay "MIDI"     //Load window set #03
    
    RotaryPush4     Reaper "40457"
    DisplayUpper    FixedTextDisplay "Project"  //Load window set #04
    
    RotaryPush5     Reaper "40458"
    DisplayUpper    FixedTextDisplay "Tracks"   //Load window set #05
    
    RotaryPush6     Reaper "40459"
    DisplayUpper    FixedTextDisplay "Media"    //Load window set #06
    
    RotaryPush7     Reaper "40460"
    DisplayUpper    FixedTextDisplay "Screen7"  //Load window set #07
    
    RotaryPush8     Reaper "40461"
    DisplayUpper    FixedTextDisplay "Screen8"  //Load window set #08
ZoneEnd

...and you've got 7 more function buttons

lubvic · 10-13-2020, 06:25 AM

really useful ideed! i can use all 3 controllers and have 24 functions with descriptions! :-D
This opens new scenarios for multiple recallable sub functions, using multiple zones!

kevrose · 10-15-2020, 05:27 AM

EDIT: sorted! Realised I needed [ 0.0 0.50 1.0 ] for the RotaryPush...

I know I'm doing something wrong, but I can't figure out what it is! Having problems with 'switches' on the plugin GUI where there are more than two settings.

E.g. this is from my .zon file for the Softube Transient Shaper:

DisplayUpperD2 FXParamNameDisplay 1 "SBand"
DisplayLowerD2 FXParamValueDisplay 1
RotaryD2 FXParam 1 [ (4,4,3,2,1) 0.0 0.50 1.0 ]
RotaryPushD2 FXParam 1
/

There are three settings for this particular parameter. If I turn the encoder, I can select the three settings but pressing it only changes it once - to the other extreme setting - and that's it...

Would be grateful for someone to point out where I'm being stupid as I've the same issue on other plugins!

Thanks.

MixMonkey · 10-15-2020, 05:45 AM

@kevrose: Do you own a copy of Microsoft Excel?

kevrose · 10-15-2020, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

@kevrose: Do you own a copy of Microsoft Excel?

Yes... Is there a better way of doing things?