Old 01-12-2019, 04:06 AM   #1
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Default Windows 10 update to increase FLS slot limit

https://www.musicradar.com/amp/news/...ns-in-your-daw
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:22 AM   #2
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Wow, it's about time!
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:43 AM   #3
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Yup its about time.

It will be raised from 128 slots to more than 4000.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/show...4&postcount=62
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:57 AM   #4
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So now they just need to up the limitation of MMCSS threads that was higher prior to W10...
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:58 AM   #5
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What does this essentially mean for us, though? Will plugins consume less CPU, e.g. Will this result in better performance? To date, I have never hit any plugin limit and I use a lot of them.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:01 AM   #6
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No, just means you can load more unique plugins in a single session, depending on how much FLS they use and if they're statically linked (most seem to be) as opposed to dynamically linked.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:07 AM   #7
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I see, thanks for explaining. Well I'm curios if I'll see a difference here :P
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:13 AM   #8
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You won't, probably. FLS means Fiber Local Storage, it's not about CPU optimizations, it's about memory allocated for units of execution.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...cthread/fibers
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:17 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
FLS means Fiber Local Storage
so i read this full thread thinking Windows 10 did an update to help a track limitation in Fruity Loops Studio lol
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:35 AM   #10
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That sort of limitation is purely ImageLine's decision
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
You won't, probably. FLS means Fiber Local Storage, it's not about CPU optimizations, it's about memory allocated for units of execution.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/win...cthread/fibers
Okay, then I might not be affected
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Old 01-12-2019, 09:26 AM   #12
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If you've ever found yourself unable to load a plug-in because you have too many other plug-ins loaded, then this might help fix that. If not, then it won't change anything for you.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:10 PM   #13
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Yea, been doing mix projects with well over 250 plugins running just fine due to lots of them being the same plugins or at least from the same company.
Anyway, its very good that they do this of course.
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Old 01-12-2019, 01:14 PM   #14
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"Same company" doesn't matter. "Same plugin" does. This is about the number of unique plugins you could load in a project.
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
"Same company" doesn't matter. "Same plugin" does. This is about the number of unique plugins you could load in a project.
It can do, waves plugins share the same FLS slots.
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:41 PM   #16
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Ah, a very rare case of plugins using a single shell. They might be the only exception here.
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Ah, a very rare case of plugins using a single shell. They might be the only exception here.
Indeed!
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:53 AM   #18
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Is this when plugs fail to load and remain offline?
I get this when loading lots of izotope or arturia plugs, I had assumed it was something to do with graphics, but I recently bought an RX 580 and still see the issue
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Old 01-13-2019, 05:12 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Ah, a very rare case of plugins using a single shell. They might be the only exception here.
From what I've read, some Slate Digital plugins act the same. I don't have any to verify.

Quote:
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Is this when plugs fail to load and remain offline? I get this when loading lots of izotope or arturia plugs, I had assumed it was something to do with graphics, but I recently bought an RX 580 and still see the issue
Could be...For example Arturia's Analog Lab has been reported to use 43 slots. You could use the FLS Checker plugin to see if that's the problem.
http://planetnine.jp/wp/2018/03/25/fls-checker/
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:21 AM   #20
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Probably because Analog Lab actually hosts all the other Arturia plugins under its hood...
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Old 01-13-2019, 06:33 AM   #21
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It doesn't have to be a shell. The real issue is that most unique versions of the MSVC CRT runtime use a FLS slot. A unique version might be:
  • Any statically linked plug-in. If you had, for example, staticplugin1.dll and staticplugin2.dll and they were the made by the same manufacturer, they would use 2 FLS slots (regardless if either was a shell plug-in).
  • A unique installed-version of the dynamic CRT. So if you had 10 plug-ins that used the VS 2015 runtime, and another 10 plug-ins that used the VS 2013 runtime, then the combined FLS slot use would be 2.

As a result of this the recommendation has generally been for everybody to decide on a common dynamic CRT to use, but obviously it's tough to get everybody to do that. Also, if you want to be able to run portably, using a dynamic CRT is difficult (and I believe if you bundle the CRT with the dll and use a manifest, then you lose the FLS slot advantage).

All of this is a bit silly, I'm not sure who uses Fibers anyway... They should be opt-in for the CRT IMO.
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:18 PM   #22
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Right, this clears up a lot for me. Thanks
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Old 01-13-2019, 01:20 PM   #23
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So, if I'm understanding correctly, this is more likely to affect plugs using vs runtime redistributable?
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Old 01-13-2019, 04:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
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Ah, a very rare case of plugins using a single shell. They might be the only exception here.
I'm up to 4 WaveShells. Not all Waves plugins use the same shell. When I bought the Flow Motion synth today (just under $24 at EveryPlugin.com with code YNY23), WaveShell4 got added.

So, for the really large number of Waves Plugins I own, I need a maximum of 8 slots, 4 for VST2 and 4 for VST3. That's only if I have plugins from each of the 4 shells loaded in the same song.

Nice!
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:18 AM   #25
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Quote:
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So, if I'm understanding correctly, this is more likely to affect plugs using vs runtime redistributable?
No, kind of reverse : it should mostly make things better for plugins that statically link into the runtime. That is, the runtime is built into the plugin itself, so that it doesn't need the separately installed runtime dlls. Many plugins have been built that way to make the installation as straightforward as possible.
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Old 01-14-2019, 08:13 AM   #26
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Quote:
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So now they just need to up the limitation of MMCSS threads that was higher prior to W10...
I'm pretty sure you can already adjust the MMCSS thread priority limiter in regedit. Stienburg sent me fix for that a while ago. If your interested I can try and dig up that link.
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:54 AM   #27
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The MMCSS thing seems to be a problem isolated to steinberg daws as far as I have seen.
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Old 08-01-2019, 02:55 PM   #28
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I've just been chasing my tail around while working on a huge project. Kept running into problems where plugins just wouldn't load. Plugins that were otherwise reliable for 10+ years.

Looks like it was the FLS slot limitation of Win8.1

For anyone who wants to check this, Takashi made a plugin for that:
http://planetnine.jp/wp/2018/03/25/fls-checker/
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:13 PM   #29
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is there a way to increase it in Windows 10?
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:19 PM   #30
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Just update to latest build of Win10. This was launched in January, IIRC.
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Old 08-01-2019, 05:36 PM   #31
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Quote:
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Just update to latest build of Win10. This was launched in January, IIRC.
I have that one. Cool
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Old 08-02-2019, 06:35 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daxliniere View Post
I've just been chasing my tail around while working on a huge project. Kept running into problems where plugins just wouldn't load. Plugins that were otherwise reliable for 10+ years.

Looks like it was the FLS slot limitation of Win8.1

For anyone who wants to check this, Takashi made a plugin for that:
http://planetnine.jp/wp/2018/03/25/fls-checker/
You can also run the developer console in REAPER, then type in "tls_avail" which will check to see how many TLS/FLS slots are available.
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:01 PM   #33
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Quote:
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You can also run the developer console in REAPER, then type in "tls_avail" which will check to see how many TLS/FLS slots are available.
Is this good ?

TLS slots available: 997
FLS slots available: 117

Windows 10 Pro Version 10.0.177363 Build 17763
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:19 PM   #34
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TLS slots available: 1008
FLS slots available: 4061


WinPro 18362.267
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Old 08-02-2019, 01:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
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TLS slots available: 1008
FLS slots available: 4061


WinPro 18362.267
Where are all my slots ???? Are you windows 10 Pro ?
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:34 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Is this good ?

TLS slots available: 997
FLS slots available: 117

Windows 10 Pro Version 10.0.177363 Build 17763
Don't you need to update to Win10 ver 1903 to get that FLS update? I'm updating my Win10 PC right now to 1903 so I guess I'll find out, current results...

EDIT Win 10 updated:
Win10 Pro 1903 [Version 10.0.18362.267]
TLS slots available: 1017
FLS slots available: 4065

Win10 Pro 1809 [Version 10.0.17763.615]
TLS slots available: 1017
FLS slots available: 113

Win7 Home,
TLS slots available: 1024
FLS slots available: 115

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Old 08-02-2019, 02:34 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Where are all my slots ???? Are you windows 10 Pro ?
You need to update to 1903.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:54 PM   #38
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Win10 Pro x64, 1903 build 18362.267

TLS slots available: 1017
FLS slots available: 4063

Should be enough
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Old 08-02-2019, 03:12 PM   #39
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Thanks, I'm upgrading now. For those that don't know where the dev console is, go to actions and look for: [developer] Debug console
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:56 PM   #40
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TLS slots available: 1013
FLS slots available: 4069

Windows 10 pro 10.0.18362
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