Old 03-19-2007, 09:39 AM   #1
Amberience
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Default left click+drag in midi editor just feels wrong ...

I dunno about everyone else, but when I left click+drag in the midi editor, I expect to be able to select notes. But a new note is created instead.

This seems wrong considering that to create a note you don't click once, but you double click. So dragging shouldn't really create a note I don't think.

If people are happy with this, then sure, don't remove it. But maybe have it as something that we could turn off in the preferences??
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Old 03-21-2007, 04:35 PM   #2
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just seen this - was thinkin the same

shame with so many custom settings that you cant invert left & right button drag in the main & MIDI window - i'd love to have marquee on the left and then right drag would be loop-selection in main window and note creation in midi window

that would just feel more like windows to me.. click & drag does the box.. right key does the 'other' action.

obviously on a setting tho cos i am not trying screw every1 up!
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:42 PM   #3
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personally, i have always thought of Left click in the midi editor as MAKING notes -- anything else would be weird to me.

but im sure other ppl are used to different things.

right click lasso selects...
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Old 03-23-2007, 08:33 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
personally, i have always thought of Left click in the midi editor as MAKING notes -- anything else would be weird to me.

but im sure other ppl are used to different things.

right click lasso selects...
Yes. double left click in the midi editor SHOULD make a note, like it already does.

Left click+drag should NOT make a note though, it should become a lasso tool. Like in EnergyXT.
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Old 03-25-2007, 12:51 PM   #5
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Hmmm, the challenge of going tool-less. I'm used to a pencil tool for creating items.

I think allowing the mouse buttons to be switched is a good compromise. I'd consider selection to be the default behavior, and creation a secondary behaviour, myself.
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Old 03-25-2007, 01:29 PM   #6
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+1 for left click and drag for selection box...and the same for the main track window as well. It's a standard interface action throughout computerdom.

Reaper Rocks.
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Old 03-27-2007, 02:42 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by woodslanding View Post
Hmmm, the challenge of going tool-less. I'm used to a pencil tool for creating items.

I think allowing the mouse buttons to be switched is a good compromise. I'd consider selection to be the default behavior, and creation a secondary behaviour, myself.
Swapping the mouse wouldn't fix anything. You'd still have to right click to enter a note.

Basically I'm a fan of the left click for actions, right click for menus, that train of thought. A single left click shouldn't do anything. A double left click should enter notes. A Left click+drag should become a selection tool.
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Old 03-29-2007, 02:33 AM   #8
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oh yeah, and then you'd enter a note everytime you tried to get the context menu.

well, there's alt-click-drag to create notes.

maybe I'm just too old to get used to right-click drag. It just feels so wrong to do.
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Old 03-29-2007, 06:25 AM   #9
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i think everything is fine about the way the mouse works in the piano roll right now, its the best balance without tools --

however, i would like a way to have a left click note in, right click delete system.

perhaps an assignable actions section for the piano roll?

with some new options?
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Old 03-29-2007, 08:00 AM   #10
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I'm quite happy to just use double-click to add a note, and it would make sense to me to have the left-click and drag to select notes.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:23 AM   #11
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I have to disagree that the current system is good. Of course everyone has their preference, but it is very important to adhere to standards whenever possible.

There are thousands of programs in which left click/drag creates a selection box. It is an interface standard across all platforms, and has been for years. It's not going anywhere until the mouse is gone. This means that thousands of people, like me, will be accidentally adding in notes when they mean to draw a selection box, or to click whitespace to deselect.
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Old 03-29-2007, 11:47 AM   #12
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Quote:
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There are thousands of programs.
and thousands that dont.

your point?
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Old 03-29-2007, 12:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
and thousands that dont.

your point?

Windows, MacOS, Various Linux desktops, Photoshop (and most of Adobe Line), Firefox, Netscape, MS Office, Cubase, Logic...

vs.

Others

Which is the standard? That's my point. And why so confrontational, by the way? Am I allowed to make suggestions, or is Reaper perfect at version, what, 1.8?
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Old 04-02-2007, 02:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
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however, i would like a way to have a left click note in, right click delete system.
I agree with Jason here. That's how the midi editor works in FL Studio. Drag select to select note(s), click to add new note, right click to delete.

If the mouse button goes down in one area and comes up in another (X,Y) it shouldn't be creating a new note but a selection, if any notes were "lassoed".
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Old 04-02-2007, 03:12 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eepyikes View Post
Windows, MacOS, Various Linux desktops, Photoshop (and most of Adobe Line), Firefox, Netscape, MS Office, Cubase, Logic...

vs.

Others

Which is the standard? That's my point. And why so confrontational, by the way? Am I allowed to make suggestions, or is Reaper perfect at version, what, 1.8?
you are the one being confrontational. I am simply asking what your point is, and that your comparison using "thousands of programs" simply is irrelevant. you need to come up with a better reason than adhering to some "standard" you think exists.

I am a nice guy, with no problems with anyone.

reaper is by no means perfect.

it thrives on ideas, from what i have seen. I am simply questioning the logic of yours.

Dont take it so harshly.
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Old 04-02-2007, 04:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
you are the one being confrontational. I am simply asking what your point is, and that your comparison using "thousands of programs" simply is irrelevant. you need to come up with a better reason than adhering to some "standard" you think exists.

I am a nice guy, with no problems with anyone.

reaper is by no means perfect.

it thrives on ideas, from what i have seen. I am simply questioning the logic of yours.

Dont take it so harshly.
No mate. There is a standard, it is not somerthing he thinks exists or something he imagines. The standard is usually a kind of majority rules thing where programs just seem to conform to a way of doing things.

Most programs for instance have ctrl+s to save your document. That has become a time tested standard function that you can pretty much use in all programs.

But of course this isn't written in stone and isn't the law or anything.

But it would be quite user-friendly to adopt as many standard functions as possible.

Thus, his whole point is quite relevant and one I happen to agree with.

And I don't think either of you are being confrontational, lets not get sensitive over a tool now shall we guys?
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Old 04-02-2007, 04:55 PM   #17
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Thanks Amb, I think you're right. It is more important to discuss ways to be user friendly, than to prove that one way is better than the other. This is exactly why we have those standards, because the line has to be drawn somewhere that is best for the whole. And I'll bet anyone a beer that I won't be the last person to cruise onto reaper.fm talking about left-click-drag.
Now I think what JBM wants is a left-click place and right click delete note system. Which I think is nice for some people and should be an option (is it already? i thought I saw something like that in the changelog). But many people spend much more time playing notes in and then editing them, which is why I voiced my concern about the current system being so different from what is, yes, the standard. I think most people on here eventually come to the conclusion that all of these things should be optional. And in many ways, Reaper has done this with other features. So why stop here, at what will soon become one of the most important areas once all the composers and other soft-syth users get wind of Reaper?
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amberience View Post
No mate. There is a standard, it is not somerthing he thinks exists or something he imagines. The standard is usually a kind of majority rules thing where programs just seem to conform to a way of doing things.

Most programs for instance have ctrl+s to save your document. That has become a time tested standard function that you can pretty much use in all programs.

But of course this isn't written in stone and isn't the law or anything.

But it would be quite user-friendly to adopt as many standard functions as possible.

Thus, his whole point is quite relevant and one I happen to agree with.

And I don't think either of you are being confrontational, lets not get sensitive over a tool now shall we guys?
bugger off amb



















considering so many of the programs listen deal with graphics or text, it is understandable they do what they do in those contexts ....
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:36 PM   #19
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bugger off amb



















considering so many of the programs listen deal with graphics or text, it is understandable they do what they do in those contexts ....
Load up EnergyXT... left click+drag acts as a selection tool.
Load up EnergyXT2.. left click+drag acts as a selection tool. (I point this out because Jorgen had the opportunity to change it and didn't.. wonder why )
Load up CubaseSX3... Left click+drag acts as a selection tool.
Load up Reason 1, 2, 2.5, or 3... left click+drag acts as a selection tool.
Load up Ableton Live... left click+drag acts as a selection tool.

All these programs deal with audio... they keep the same standard. I'm fairly sure Sonar has the same feature, but I don't have it so I can't check. I'm also sure the likes of Magix products, Ejay products, and Logic in all of its forms has the same standard too.

I love ye JBM
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:43 PM   #20
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well considering my experience has to do with programs that DONT do that

Vegas, acid, FL, and Samplitude...

perhaps that is the problem.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:48 PM   #21
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wait a sec, im not so sure about acid and vegas.

lol...

we are talking about the midi editor...

i know for a fact samplitudes midi editor as well as FLs doesnt do left click drag = selection..

im all for a hybrid cursor arrangement in the arrange window however....
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:58 PM   #22
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Me too. I also like the idea of right click deleting notes. I don't see why that couldn't be implemented as well as left click+drag as a selection box.

In fact, I would probably use both.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:07 PM   #23
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Prefs... Mouse... MIDI window actions?

Left button action options:
click=preview drag=marquee dblclick=insert/remove
click=insert/remove shift=preview shift-drag=marquee

What about that?
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:34 PM   #24
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I like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
Prefs... Mouse... MIDI window actions?

Left button action options:
click=preview drag=marquee dblclick=insert/remove
click=insert/remove shift=preview shift-drag=marquee

What about that?
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:42 AM   #25
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left click+drag SHOULD ACT AS A SELECTION TOOL IN ALL WINDOWS ;D


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Old 04-03-2007, 06:20 AM   #26
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Looks like somebody owes me a beer!

Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
left click+drag SHOULD ACT AS A SELECTION TOOL IN ALL WINDOWS ;D


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Old 04-03-2007, 12:11 PM   #27
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I made a poll about this. (not specifically the MIDI editor, but it translates)

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8031
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Old 04-03-2007, 04:01 PM   #28
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it feels wrong to me too--less a pen/draw tool modifyer key binding, but given that [alt] + l-click and r-click are the select functions, it should be consistent.


t.
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:52 PM   #29
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Just out of curiosity - we have a preference now with a single left-click note entry and delete.

Would left-click-drag stuff around with this a bit?

In any case, I'll all for completely configurable mouse actions so bring it on I say.

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