Old 03-27-2020, 05:22 PM   #1
Quasar
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Default How to Lengthen TCP/MCP Pan Faders?

When I flip the [1] and the [0] in rtconfig so that the pan is a fader rather than a knob, the width is extremely short, so there is very little room to slide, and you almost can't see the difference between 100% left and 100% right.

Does anyone know what to tweak to lengthen the fader lanes, to make the horizontal distance between left, center and right greater? Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-27-2020, 07:54 PM   #2
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Default 3.0 has the sort of pan fader I want. Track 1 is panned 100% left, and track 2 is panned 100% right:



Here are the same two tracks in my v6 mod. I can't figure out how to get the fader horizontal area widened:


Last edited by Quasar; 03-28-2020 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 03-28-2020, 02:01 PM   #3
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No one?

The absence of a response makes me even sadder than that sad man who hides behind blue eyes who no one knows what it's like to be.

I'm certain it's something in rtconfig limiting the size of the fader slider, but I can't find it. I can move stuff around or create more space between the icons etc., but no values I change seem to work, either in the TCP or the MCP.
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Old 03-28-2020, 03:24 PM   #4
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Maybe adding the pictures missing from your 2nd post could help people to see what you want?
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Old 03-28-2020, 03:40 PM   #5
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This is answered in the WALTER SDK.
https://www.reaper.fm/sdk/walter/walter.php

Links to theme making info is forum sticky #3:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=181913

The size of the fader cap itself in controlled by the image in this file:
tcp_panthumb.png
tcp_widththumb.png

The the length of the width and height of the line the fader cap sits over is controlled by the 3rd and 4th number in the layout line in the rtconfig:
Code:
set tcp.pan			[-15 119 5 35 0 0 0 0]
set tcp.width			[-15 139 5 35 0 0 0 0]
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Last edited by lucas_LCS; 03-28-2020 at 03:49 PM. Reason: corrected fader names etc.
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Old 03-28-2020, 03:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander View Post
Maybe adding the pictures missing from your 2nd post could help people to see what you want?
Thanks for pointing that out. Should be fixed
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Old 03-28-2020, 05:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucas_LCS View Post
This is answered in the WALTER SDK.
https://www.reaper.fm/sdk/walter/walter.php

Links to theme making info is forum sticky #3:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=181913

The size of the fader cap itself in controlled by the image in this file:
tcp_panthumb.png
tcp_widththumb.png

The the length of the width and height of the line the fader cap sits over is controlled by the 3rd and 4th number in the layout line in the rtconfig:
Code:
set tcp.pan			[-15 119 5 35 0 0 0 0]
set tcp.width			[-15 139 5 35 0 0 0 0]
::
Appreciate the thought, but mine doesn't look like that. For the MCP there is a line under set mcp.pan, after a bunch of other stuff, that has:

+ [nchan_offs_half{0}] * scale !panLabelsMode{0} [8 7 70 20] [8 9 70 20]

and the h, w and center positioning are set in the two groups of 4 bracketed numbers at the end. This works for both MCP and Master MCP at least:



The TCP set tcp.pan has no equivalent, but looks entirely different, has verbiage that says "knobs have the same h and w" and no similar bracketed number groups, so trying to find a solution for this is next.

Last edited by Quasar; 03-28-2020 at 07:56 PM.
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Old 03-28-2020, 05:54 PM   #8
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Apologies, didn't think you were working with the Default 6 theme.
I have a possibe hack for it, but will wait to see if White Tie responds first.
Will test the hack in the meantime.

P.S.: like those Mute and Solo buttons!


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Old 03-28-2020, 06:39 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucas_LCS View Post
Apologies, didn't think you were working with the Default 6 theme.
I have a possibe hack for it, but will wait to see if White Tie responds first.
Will test the hack in the meantime.

P.S.: like those Mute and Solo buttons!


::
Thanks! I'm just a piano player and have no flair for graphic design whatsoever, and if it weren't for the quarantine probably wouldn't even be geeking-out on this. But I do like faders soooo much better than knobs.

I may well get rid of the TCP recmode to clear more space for the TCP pan fader, since it offers nothing that you can't access by clicking on the record button, and I literally never need to see at a glance whether I'm recording input or output. If you do come up with a hack for TCP pan fader, much appreciated, though eventually I'm certain I'll klutz it out, however inefficiently.
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Old 03-28-2020, 08:00 PM   #10
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Got it to work in the TCP by pasting the entire MCP set mcp.pan section into the TCP equivalent, then playing with the numeric values until positioned where I like:

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Old 03-29-2020, 03:04 AM   #11
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cool. does it still work with the Theme Adjuster?

The hack is basically just using WALTER's additive function to change the location or size of the element for one of the 3 layouts.
The mute and solo button indicate you have one of the LCS_Flat-6 themes.
If you look in the rtconfig you will see the hack.
it looks like this:
set mcp.pan + [20 -30 10 2]

this tells reaper to:
- add 20 to the current Horizontal location
- subtract 30 from the current vertical location
- add 10 to the width of the element
- add 2 to the height of the element.

The benefits of this is it will then follow the Theme Adjuster for the layout it's nested under.
just check the LCS_Flat-6 rtconfig for examples.

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Old 03-29-2020, 05:04 AM   #12
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The problem is that Reaper reuses the knobs/faders no matter what their context, and we have three contexts : pan, pan and width, pan L&R. This presents the themer with some difficult decisions to make regarding which elements to use for which context, and on the def6 I chose to use the faders for pan L&R. So reversing that decision is going to take some messing about.

But wait, first things first, do you actually want only ever a pan fader? So : never a width control, and never pan L&R? Because if so then you're probably already on the right track. Overwrite the tcp_PanSize, tcp.pan and tcp.pan.fadermode lines in the drawTcp macro with something much more simple.
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Old 03-29-2020, 04:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucas_LCS View Post
cool. does it still work with the Theme Adjuster?

The hack is basically just using WALTER's additive function to change the location or size of the element for one of the 3 layouts.
The mute and solo button indicate you have one of the LCS_Flat-6 themes.
If you look in the rtconfig you will see the hack.
it looks like this:
set mcp.pan + [20 -30 10 2]

this tells reaper to:
- add 20 to the current Horizontal location
- subtract 30 from the current vertical location
- add 10 to the width of the element
- add 2 to the height of the element.

The benefits of this is it will then follow the Theme Adjuster for the layout it's nested under.
just check the LCS_Flat-6 rtconfig for examples.

::
Indeed, the M/S were cannibalized from your LCS Flat theme. I guess I'm pretty cavalier about using whatever elements that people post, and then I may or may not tweak color or saturation etc. I have read that this is a norm here and okay... At any rate thanks much and hope you don't mind. These are the coolest M/S buttons I've seen, by far.

Also, thanks for the hack. I am still puzzled why the "Set TCP" text areas don't have anything akin to the same options the MCP does when it comes to the numbers for h, w, and position.

The Theme Adjuster still works fine. Not that I care, since I never want to hide things, I prefer the 1/4 TCP folder indent etc. and when trying to mod a theme, whenever Reaper treats an iteration as a new theme, you have to go back and re-tweak the Theme Adjuster default again. I don't especially like different layouts for different purposes. I like all of my tracks to always look exactly the same, so that using the various elements is entirely reflexive.

I do not know how to get the TCP fader to move when resizing tracks, nor do I know how to have decent UIs for the non-default pan modes. I'm probably in over my head, and should either give up or actually learn how to use WALTER, which actually seems remotely possible because of the current quarantine reality.
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Old 03-29-2020, 04:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
The problem is that Reaper reuses the knobs/faders no matter what their context, and we have three contexts : pan, pan and width, pan L&R. This presents the themer with some difficult decisions to make regarding which elements to use for which context, and on the def6 I chose to use the faders for pan L&R. So reversing that decision is going to take some messing about.

But wait, first things first, do you actually want only ever a pan fader? So : never a width control, and never pan L&R? Because if so then you're probably already on the right track. Overwrite the tcp_PanSize, tcp.pan and tcp.pan.fadermode lines in the drawTcp macro with something much more simple.
The whole panning mode thing is another can of worms. All I ever really use is the one that moves mono 100% L to 100% R and adjusts relative stereo levels [Stereo Balance/Mono Pan (Default)]

But of course I'd rather not deprecate panning functionality due to my amateurish copying & pasting of code, if I can help it.
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Old 03-29-2020, 05:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
Indeed, the M/S were cannibalized from your LCS Flat theme. I guess I'm pretty cavalier about using whatever elements that people post, and then I may or may not tweak color or saturation etc. I have read that this is a norm here and okay... At any rate thanks much and hope you don't mind. These are the coolest M/S buttons I've seen, by far.
Thanks!
I've had them since I finished the first LCS_luna theme, but no where to put them until now.
Please feel free to use them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
Also, thanks for the hack. I am still puzzled why the "Set TCP" text areas don't have anything akin to the same options the MCP does when it comes to the numbers for h, w, and position.
Can't say for sure, but it's likely that it's due to how the TCP works as opposed to the MCP.
The whole purpose of the hack for me was to be able to leave White Tie's code intact while making the adjustments needed for the additional layouts.
Nesting the hack in a new layout not only leaves the original intact, but allows the new layout to piggy back on the Theme Adjuster settings for the layout it's nested in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
The Theme Adjuster still works fine. Not that I care, since I never want to hide things, I prefer the 1/4 TCP folder indent etc. and when trying to mod a theme, whenever Reaper treats an iteration as a new theme, you have to go back and re-tweak the Theme Adjuster default again. I don't especially like different layouts for different purposes. I like all of my tracks to always look exactly the same, so that using the various elements is entirely reflexive.
Here's a thread where White clarifies the need for a corresponding Them Adjuster.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
I do not know how to get the TCP fader to move when resizing tracks, nor do I know how to have decent UIs for the non-default pan modes. I'm probably in over my head, and should either give up or actually learn how to use WALTER, which actually seems remotely possible because of the current quarantine reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
The whole panning mode thing is another can of worms. All I ever really use is the one that moves mono 100% L to 100% R and adjusts relative stereo levels [Stereo Balance/Mono Pan (Default)]
But of course I'd rather not deprecate panning functionality due to my amateurish copying & pasting of code, if I can help it.
In your case , it sounds like you want to exclusively use Pan & Width only, never Dual Pan (left & Right) or the default.
This will likely require a bit more trial and error using the hack.
If you go with the hack, I suggest making a nested test layout to perform trial and error tests.
You may need to include the clear tcp.pan and tcp.width command at the top of the test layout and then anchor the width to the pan and the pan to a nearby stable element.

It's really best at this point for you look at the WALTER pdf White Tie linked to above.
White Tie's advice to everyone is to create an entirely new theme.
His walk-thru helps you understand the basics pretty well.
If that seems like too much at once, you can try just creating a new, basic layout from scratch first to better understand how it works.
You can do this with the theme you currently have, just look at the separator layout I setup for glimpse at a minimal layout.
It won't be affected by the Theme adjuster or the any of the other , but you can figure out how to nest it later if needed.
You may find a better way in the meantime.

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Old 03-30-2020, 10:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucas_LCS View Post
****
::
Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful reply. The TCP fader issues I had are now sorted, though I'm not sure exactly why, and the how won't be of any use to anyone else I'm sure.

I started the WALTER tutorial, but have only gone through a few pages so far, and complex WALTER seems to involve several iterations of shorthand or whatever... At any rate the !pan group(2) seemed to provide stable location behavior when resizing tracks so that the pan fader moves like the default knob would, without stretching, sliding under other elements or other weirdness. Then tweaking numbers in set tcp_PanSize and in set tcp.pan seemed to do the trick.

I checked your Flat rtconfig, and didn't see anything quite like the hack you describe, but saw this for set mcp.pan:

?narrowMode{0} \
h<hide_pan_s{0} [0] + [pan_sec pan_sec] trackpanmode==6 + [0 0 nchan_offs{0}] * scale !panLabelsMode{0} [3 6 48 9] [3 15 48 9] \
trackpanmode>=4 + [nchan_offs_third{0}] * scale !panLabelsMode{0} [28 4 20 20] [26 7 20 20] \
+ [nchan_offs_half{0}] * scale !panLabelsMode{0} [18 4 20 20] [18 7 20 20] \
h<hide_pan_s{0} [0] + [pan_sec pan_sec] trackpanmode==6 + [0 0 nchan_offs{0}] * scale !panLabelsMode{0} [7 6 73 9] [7 15 73 9] \
trackpanmode>=4 + [nchan_offs_third{0}] * scale !panLabelsMode{0} [20 4 20 20] [20 7 20 20] \
+ [nchan_offs_half{0}] * scale !panLabelsMode{0} [33 4 20 20] [33 7 20 20]

I searched the pdf for "nchan" and came up empty. I have no idea what most of this stuff means, but no matter. My eccentric theme wants are coming together for both the TCP and the MCP. I hid the TCP/MCP recmode and moved both the TCP master mono/stereo and width off to the right so that I have to stretch the track out to find them, as I don't wish to see them. Next is doing something about the oversized FX in the MCP, though I can live with it:

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Old 03-30-2020, 01:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful reply. The TCP fader issues I had are now sorted, though I'm not sure exactly why, and the how won't be of any use to anyone else I'm sure.
you're welcome.
If the fader is working how you want, then you should be good to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
I started the WALTER tutorial, but have only gone through a few pages so far, and complex WALTER seems to involve several iterations of shorthand or whatever... At any rate the !pan group(2) seemed to provide stable location behavior when resizing tracks so that the pan fader moves like the default knob would, without stretching, sliding under other elements or other weirdness. Then tweaking numbers in set tcp_PanSize and in set tcp.pan seemed to do the trick.
The guide is for basic WALTER coding circa Reaper v4.
The Reaper 6 theme makes heavy use of macros & variables.
White Tie did an excellent job with this.
The point of the PDF is get you familiar with the basic WALTER coding so you can better understand what does what in a theme.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
I checked your Flat rtconfig, and didn't see anything quite like the hack you describe, but saw this for set mcp.pan:
- code removed from quote -
that's in the macro section.
The hack is farther down in the actual layout section:
look for:
Code:
drawMasterTcp 1

	Layout "A"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
I searched the pdf for "nchan" and came up empty. I have no idea what most of this stuff means, but no matter.
see the second response in this post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
My eccentric theme wants are coming together for both the TCP and the MCP.
cool, that means you're making progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
I hid the TCP/MCP recmode and moved both the TCP master mono/stereo and width off to the right so that I have to stretch the track out to find them, as I don't wish to see them.
In my hack you'll see the clear command to use for turning off elements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasar View Post
Next is doing something about the oversized FX in the MCP, though I can live with it:
If you did't change settings for those elements, then they are probably tied to another element's size you did change.
you can try finding the settings for them in the macro like you did with the other elements or use the hack to re-adjust the size in the actual layout.

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