Why Does Reaper Get a Bad Rap?

[MarkSA]

Originally Posted by TryingToMakeMusic

Some people are working around it by not buying Reaper and buying different DAWs instead. The OP asked why they're doing that, and now you arrive to tell people not to answer OP's question. There are going to be a lot of things said on the internet that upset you---especially when you literally go out of your way to invite people to say them.

Fanboys who want to stay in their comfort zone, next time you want to ask "What's wrong with Reaper" and get zero responses, try asking it to yourself in a mirror; that echo-chamber might be small enough to satisfy you.

It's not what I'm saying at all. Nor am I fanboy. There's a lot of you's. I'm happy for people to use other DAWS, it's up to them. Hence the comment work around it, which I'm sure people do.

I have mostly postive things to say about Reaper, did that get lost in translation?

[TryingToMakeMusic]

Originally Posted by MarkSA

It's not what I'm saying at all. Nor am I fanboy. There's a lot of you's. I'm happy for people to use other DAWS, it's up to them. Hence the comment work around it, which I'm sure people do.

I have mostly positive things to say about Reaper, did that get lost in translation?

OP had asked why Reaper is less popular than Cubase on "a forum where people were dissing Reaper left and right and singing the praises of Cubase", by which he meant http://vi-control.net/community/thre...for-you.61854/.

What should I have made of your comment:

Originally Posted by MarkSA

Don't complain, work around it.

You don't you want anyone to answer the OP's question? Why not? You want to put blinders on Cockos as they try to figure out how to improve Reaper? Why? So OP and Hopi can finally have a space where they can fantasize undisturbed that Reaper is perfect?

[Robert Johnson III]

Originally Posted by robgb

The problem I had in Studio One was bouncing midi multi-out instruments, which was trial and error. Most of the time I'd simply get a blank wav file on all but the original Kontakt track. One of the many things I got tired of dealing with after many attempts to fix the problem.

So I switched to single Kontakt instances for each track. That solved it. But I figured why not simply do that in Reaper where the CPU hit will be much, much lower. Instead of running at 50+%, I'm now running at 15-20%.

Yes... S1 has got resource and stability problems (and other bugs and shortcomings) Would prefer to use REAPER, but for my workflow stuff needs to get fixed first. In S1 I was able to write and record songs straight away (hardly any manual needed) Learning and customising REAPER was a (rewarding and nerdy) project in itself.

[woggle]

Originally Posted by Robert Johnson III

Learning and customising REAPER was a (rewarding and nerdy) project in itself.

and it is a project that never stops

[Robert Johnson III]

Originally Posted by woggle

and it is a project that never stops

That is the beauty of REAPER (minus the bugs)

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by Robert Johnson III

That is the beauty of REAPER (minus the bugs)

By the way, the devs always implement features that don't break the existing ones and you can open every project made since version 1.0.

[bFooz]

Regarding bugs, I would invite if next few releases would be just bug fixes, no new stuff added.

[robgb]

Originally Posted by TryingToMakeMusic

I capitalized it, as in Cubase "Expression Maps", which work with VSL, LASS, and EWQL.

LOL.

As I said, no DAW is perfect. Not Reaper. Not Cubase. Not Studio One. Not Logic. And certainly not Pro Tools. Yet you base your disdain for Reaper on this one pathetic and highly questionable point.

I'll repeat: whatever.

Enjoy making music.

[somebodyelseuk]

Originally Posted by robgb

I've just come away from a forum where people were dissing Reaper left and right and singing the praises of Cubase. And despite my pointing out the virtues of Reaper, they're not having it.

I've used Cubase as well as pretty much every major DAW available (and some minor ones, too), and after years of switching from one to the next, finally gave Reaper a good, hard look and fell in love. I can't see going back to any other DAW at this point. And thanks to Kenny Gioia's tutorials, I've discovered that Reaper may be the most powerful DAW of them all.

So why does it get a bad rap from so many in the various recording forums? I just don't get it.

I don't know that it does, really.
I used Cubase for years and didn't have any problems with it. I stumbled across Reaper at a point in time where I couldn't afford anything else. It does the job as well as any other DAW. I s'pose if I did this for a living, I'd probably invest in Protools, just for the "industry compatibility" and write it off as a business expense.
At the end of the day, I grew up in a period of time when I/we didn't care what anyone else thought and now I'm middle-aged I care even less what other people think.
Reaper does what I need it to do. I never have any issues with it. I couldn't care less if I'm the only person on the planet who likes it.
I care about things that actually matter, not whether someone likes my haircut.

[slipstick]

Originally Posted by somebodyelseuk

I care about things that actually matter, not whether someone likes my haircut.

You can get Reaper to cut your hair...now that's an option I haven't found yet .

But I agree this discussion is pointless. Why do people praise one thing and diss something else ? Because they're people.

Why do people care about what other people think ? Again, because they're people.

Steve

[Mr. PC]

I tried everything when I was young, but before learning about Reaper, preferred Ableton Live... which was totally not geared toward what I do (neither is Reaper really, but Live is really meant for.. live work).

I used to use Sibelius for notation, but since Reaper got it's own Notation, I've really fallen in love with it.

Anyhow, to answer the O.Q.

Because they're lamoids.

[bennetng]

Originally Posted by Robert Randolph

[*]Obnoxious users - There's some selection of users that go on other forums to randomly proclaim how amazing Reaper is, often wrongly or in the wrong context. I can't tell you how many times I've been reading a thread (or asked a question myself) and saw someone suggest Reaper. I open Reaper and find out that it can't even do what was being asked. Extremely frustrating.

My attempt to persuade someone to use Reaper:

What the OP did:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,113240.0.html

My reply:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/top...html#msg932632

But it looks like the OP was not appreciated (read the whole thread if you have time). Then I shut up. All experts here, if you were I, what would you suggest (by using Reaper) ?

[The Byre]

In professional circles, Reaper does not get a bad rap at all! All sorts of people have started using it and across all users, amateur and pro, it enjoyed (latest figures were for the end of last year) a 14% user base, placing it third behind CuBase and Logic, both with c.a. 18%. Studio One was fourth, ProTools fifth, but I have forgotten the exact percentages.

I would imagine that these figures have improved for Reaper since then.

The important aspect is Reaper's ability to deal with video and in that ability, it is not up against the other DAWs, but is in competition with Blackmagic-Design's software package 'DaVinci-Resolve' which is a free download with a paid-for version at $300.

Because DaVinci is Video/film with audio (from Fairlight) added on and Reaper is audio with video added on, the two actually complement one another.

A more formal arrangement between the two companies might be a good idea. For example, being able to open one-another's projects would be a major boost.

This market is about to go through some major changes and I cannot see either BMD or Cockos being on the losing side in those changes!

[robgb]

Originally Posted by The Byre

In professional circles, Reaper does not get a bad rap at all! All sorts of people have started using it and across all users, amateur and pro, it enjoyed (latest figures were for the end of last year) a 14% user base!

That's good to hear. I'm glad more people are discovering it.

[chip mcdonald]

It's amusing that if you go over to DUC, the problems/errors posts are all over the place, and workarounds are treated as "process". PT users say some extraordinarily contrary things when explaining what they do in order to negate glaring problems. Then go to great lengths to praise Avid for "inventing" things that have been in Reaper forever.

Not surprisingly they're Mac users and probably prefer "perfect" IPhones.

Reaper suffers from expectation bias in that "better than Pro Tools" is taken to mean "perfect", which is ridiculous.

99.9% of these complaints are things that DID NOT EXIST prior to DAWs. You'd think people couldn't have made and recorded music prior to the divine birth of Pro Tools....

[Robert Johnson III]

Originally Posted by The Byre

ProTools fifth, but I have forgotten the exact percentages.

ProTool "The Industry standard" fifth? That is surprising... From what website did you get these figures?

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by bennetng

My attempt to persuade someone to use Reaper:

What the OP did:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,113240.0.html

My reply:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/top...html#msg932632

But it looks like the OP was not appreciated (read the whole thread if you have time). Then I shut up. All experts here, if you were I, what would you suggest (by using Reaper) ?

I see nothing wrong with what you posted there, but I also don't see how Reaper factors in. It seems kinda weird to me.

He's talking about a methodology, and your response was a product. It just seems awkward, but that's not just a Reaper thing. People do it all the time.

That's certainly not an example of what I'm talking about though. I'm talking about things like in the V3 days when people would say Reaper had VCAs because you could group tracks, or people saying Reaper has automation clips because envelopes can move with media items or... etc... These things all happening in some other DAWs forum totally out of context.

I had originally included a few examples, but I think it's immature to shame someone like that. I think anyone that browses other forums has experienced this though.

[ivansc]

Originally Posted by Robert Johnson III

ProTool "The Industry standard" fifth? That is surprising... From what website did you get these figures?

Statistics are great - they can prove anything.

If you are assuming that "industry standard" users DOESN'T include all the bedroom/project studio guys, there is your explanation.
The pro studios ( who I suspect are the majority of heavy duty pro tools users) are dwindling fast and the bedroom/hobby brigade are multiplying faster than a burrow full of over-sexed bunnies.
Hence PT is inexorably sliding down all the "most popular DAW" lists. Where was Fruity Loops in all this?

[Lawrence]

A better question than the thread title is ... "Why do some people care so much?"

Honestly, it's just software. So 10 guys on another forum are ragging on Reaper and maybe don't like it or understand it. How exactly does that affect anyone personally?

Otoh, if I owned a lot of AVID stock I might be concerned about their products public perception because I would be directly financially vested in it. Otherwise, who cares?

I would hazard a guess that Justin and Schwa quite literally couldn't care less.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by ivansc

Hence PT is inexorably sliding down all the "most popular DAW" lists. Where was Fruity Loops in all this?

No idea why people here hate PT so much and spend so much time trying to prove Reaper is "beating" PT or something.

Fact: Most commercial records where people make money touches PT somewhere along the way. That has not changed and is not changing anytime soon. PT, the real PT, was never really a consumer product due to it's historically high price. Neither is Nuendo.

The consumer market is doing what it's always done, used much less expensive things.

A engineering or mix guy who uses PT like say, Lynn Fuston, doesn't care at all about how popular his daw is on the Internet, he only cares about results and profit... because it's a business, a career, not an Internet contest. I suspect if you restrict the "numbers" to people who are actually working full time in the industry and making a good living doing that, the kinda faux numbers from Google that people post trying to prove something or other wouldn't really hold up.

[martifingers]

Originally Posted by The Byre

In professional circles, Reaper does not get a bad rap at all! All sorts of people have started using it and across all users, amateur and pro, it enjoyed (latest figures were for the end of last year) a 14% user base, placing it third behind CuBase and Logic, both with c.a. 18%. Studio One was fourth, ProTools fifth, but I have forgotten the exact percentages.

The BBC use REAPER for outside broadcasts. That is a specialist use I admit but it puts any criticisms into context surely. When stability, functionality and capacity are important experts chose REAPER.

[Bri1]

Fact: Most commercial records where people make money touches PT somewhere along the way. That has not changed and is not changing anytime soon. .

Rubbish.

PT, the real PT, was never really a consumer product due to it's historically high price. Neither is Nuendo.

If it was never to be 'consumed' how on earth did it become 'popular'?
The notion of musical instruments being expensive is fairly correct--historically it was expensive,seen more as an 'elitists pursuit'-again total rubbish-- music never ever was for commercial gain--->only personal and collective community gains.
Money is not music,but some people can believe that to be true.
Personally I don't believe any music to be "for sale" - it's created to be enjoyed/shared.

he only cares about results and profit..

Paper and digits cannot reaplace vibrational messages.
Soundwaves can go interstellar-how far does cash go when the holder is pushing up daisies?

[Lawrence]

If it was never to be 'consumed' how on earth did it become 'popular'?

PTLE? It all started there.

Again, most people spouting on the Internet chat rooms couldn't afford the real PT back then, it cost way too much, and it didn't have cracks on torrents. To illustrate how out of line "popularity" is with factual reality, Cubase is more "popular" than Nuendo, when the latter is quite literally "Cubase +++" feature wise.

Consumer = "People who use software for fun or hobby or side things, not as a primary means to pay all of their bills."

PT became consumer software with PTLE... and the other thing they made that maybe was on the shelf at Best Buy at some point. The people who made it the "Industry Standard" back then were using $300k consoles and hugely expensive tape decks so $10k for a PT rig was no big deal compared to a $30k 24-track tape deck. Then of course when the home studio revolution first hit a certain percentage of consumer level people just wanted to use what the "big name" guys were using, which was mostly PT.

Just saying, REAPER is great. The constant need to "win" something, not so much.

[TryingToMakeMusic]

Originally Posted by robgb

your disdain for Reaper

You're the one showing for disdain for Reaper, as you suggest Cockos are too mentally weak to bear the airing of true facts. You're just projecting your own personal insecurities though.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

PTLE? It all started there.

LOL... Even before that when it was just hardware based, it was the 'industry standard' that replaced ADATs etc. (am I remembering correctly?) I think it was about ~$10k to get in the game at that time. My memory fades since that was late 90s.

And you are right the other 99.9% of musicians/engineers/producers who don't live on forums whathaveyou don't really care so long as they have something that does the job they need. The closest anything anyone cares about is longevity of the product so they don't get left out in the cold. Polls et al based on forums/posts really is a terrible data source overall simply because the user bases is skewed and they comprise such a small percentage of the total user base.

[TryingToMakeMusic]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

A better question than the thread title is ... "Why do some people care so much?"

Honestly, it's just software. So 10 guys on another forum are ragging on Reaper and maybe don't like it or understand it. How exactly does that affect anyone personally?

In the mind of the deranged fanboy, the DAW is his mommy, and any critique of the DAW is an insult against his mommy, and her honor must be defended at all costs. What psychiatrists call "Transference":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transference

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

LOL... Even before that when it was just hardware based, it was the 'industry standard' that replaced ADATs etc. (am I remembering correctly?) I think it was about ~$10k to get in the game at that time. My memory fades since that was late 90s.

Yep. It was PTLE (affordable PT) that brought it into the consumer market, to Best Buy or whatever. Remember, this was maybe back when Cubase and Logic and similar were $800 or $1000, those were certainly not consumer (mass market to everyone with a few spare bucks) products at those prices. It's a different world now.

Technology advances (cheaper computers) brought the price of most of it down so now consumers can use professional level software products for a lot less money. I mean, for Christ's sake, FCP is only $300.

But yeah, the PT that people had at home was not, for the most part, the same software the major studios were using. It was a consumer version... and it still wasn't really cheap because you had to buy hardware to get it.

That foothold PT has in the money making top level of the industry will take a really, really long time to dislodge... party because many of those people don't fret over a few hundred dollars here and there. They own tons of highly expensive audio stuff. Otoh, some smaller project studios are starting to look elsewhere.

[robgb]

Originally Posted by TryingToMakeMusic

You're the one showing for disdain for Reaper, as you suggest Cockos are too mentally weak to bear the airing of true facts. You're just projecting your own personal insecurities though.

Oh, for godsakes...

[karbomusic]

and it still wasn't really cheap because you had to buy hardware to get it

And originally limited to 8 tracks IIRC using the Digi 001, again stretching my memory here.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

And originally limited to 8 tracks IIRC using the Digi 001, again stretching my memory here.

I think so.

A lot of people have no real perspective at all when it comes to these products. If you're making $2-3k a week mixing and recording, the cost of a PT rig, or a Sequoia rig if mastering, or Nuendo, or whatever else, is nothing. Those really expensive products are not actually meant for everyone obviously, or they wouldn't be priced so high.

We tend to view everything (or too many things) with blinders on... and somewhere there's a guy making $200k a year profit using "that shitty PT DAW", while we're not making a nickel.

Everything has a perspective.

But yeah, I'd personally stay away from anything really expensive for a hobby, unless I was just flush with cash.

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

And originally limited to 8 tracks IIRC using the Digi 001, again stretching my memory here.

32 mono tracks.

[Mr. PC]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

I think so.

A lot of people have no real perspective at all when it comes to these products. If you're making $2-3k a week mixing and recording, the cost of a PT rig, or a Sequoia rig if mastering, or Nuendo, or whatever else, is nothing. Those really expensive products are not actually meant for everyone obviously, or they wouldn't be priced so high.

We tend to view everything (or too many things) with blinders on... and somewhere there's a guy making $200k a year profit using "that shitty PT DAW", while we're not making a nickel.

Everything has a perspective.

But yeah, I'd personally stay away from anything really expensive for a hobby, unless I was just flush with cash.

Right, but are they actually any better? My impression is that, regardless of price, Reaper is a better DAW.

So if all DAWs were the same price, would you choose Nuendo, or stick with Reaper?

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Robert Randolph

32 mono tracks.

Originally, as in during the first year or so of the 001/LE, I'm pretty sure it was 8 or 24 for a short time when I was selling them. That would be somewhere circa 2000. Could be wrong but 32 doesn't sound right for PTLE V1/Digi 001.

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

Originally, as in during the first year or so of the 001/LE, I'm pretty sure it was 8 or 24 for a short time when I was selling them. That would be somewhere circa 2000. Could be wrong but 32 doesn't sound right for PTLE V1/Digi 001.

Actually, you're correct. It was 24 tracks for a short period in the windows 98 era.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Robert Randolph

Actually, you're correct. It was 24 tracks for a short period in the windows 98 era.

Ah, 24 feels better. I remember the limitation because I had just moved from analog to digital (Yamaha MD8) then DAWs using Logic for PC (4.1) and thought it was an unnecessary limitation since Logic was 128 at that time (IIRC). I'd likely have stuck with Logic had Apple not purchased Emagic, then I went to Cubase until 2009 before finding Reaper on a whim.

To add to all of that: Logic PC, to me was by far the most unintuitive DAW at that time, with it's click and hold menus etc. I think I spent a few hours struggling before I broke out my hard copy of the manual. However, every DAW change I made came with it's own set of ways of accomplishing tasks simply because there was no real standard then (or now) so I was up and running in Reaper as fast of faster than the ones I used before it.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Mr. PC

Right, but are they actually any better?

That's the point some keep missing, that it doesn't matter if you're making money and working and not highly annoyed by something.

"Better" contests are for Internet forums, maybe not always for real world business decisions. In business the point is to make money and hopefully be comfortable doing that, and you only mostly change and learn something completely new from scratch if one of those things changes, income or comfort, or for some other reason.

Joe: My daw is better than yours. That's a fact.

Jim: I don't care. I made $120k last year with my daw, I'm fine for now.

That's where a lot of the older or long time working PT guys are, they quite literally don't care. If anyone expects the current money making culture in Pro Audio to switch en-masse to anything else anytime soon, they're delusional. Some certainly will. Most won't.

For the next generation otoh, REAPER is more of a no-brainer first daw, it's powerful and almost free.

[robgb]

Originally Posted by Mr. PC

So if all DAWs were the same price, would you choose Nuendo, or stick with Reaper?

I used Nuendo for quite a few years. It was a great DAW. I'd still choose Reaper.

[robgb]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

Joe: My daw is better than yours. That's a fact.

Jim: I don't care. I made $120k last year with my daw, I'm fine for now.

I don't believe anyone is arguing that Reaper is "better" than some other mainstream DAW. We're simply saying it's just as good as those other DAWs, and, for us, it's customizability makes it the DAW of choice. It isn't a "beginner's" DAW. It's a full fledged, professional DAW, for beginners and old-timers alike.

[somebodyelseuk]

What people seem to miss is that with Protools you're not relying on an internet forum for technical assistance when it goes 'tits up'.

If Protools was as problematic as the forums would have you believe, it would not be the industry standard.
Actual real life commercial studios won't be running cheap, shitty AV, dubious plugins, cracked software, and their DAW PCs aren't likely to be having porn downloaded to them, so they probably don't have as many problems as the 'forum pros' do...

You cam bet your mortgage that no actual real life professional studio was affected by the recent AVG/Avast/ASIO fiasco.

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by somebodyelseuk

You cam bet your mortgage that no actual real life professional studio was affected by the recent AVG/Avast/ASIO fiasco.

Yeah, because nearly all of them are running macs on a locked down LAN.