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Old 04-15-2022, 11:45 PM   #1
Gaia
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Default record guitar with multieffects via usb or line out scarlett ? No mic

Hi

May i ask you a question ?

when you record your guitar sessions do you use your multi effect like line 6 helix , or boss gt-1000 usb and do plug it directly on the computer or do you plug your line out to a dac like a scarlett ?

please don't mention Mic and Amp , when i'm at home , I can't use my tube amps ,they are too loud to record via mic & dac
I mean to obtain the amp sound , i have to raise my 50W or 100W tube amp ,they are really very loud

please could you share how do you record at home ,without using real amps

I use the mic at home only when I record my acoustic guitar

thanks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgsmfZ8CKo0

and
https://youtu.be/lm36U6pipX0?t=325

via ubs sound so arificial , via line out it's clipping a lot
ps when i'm not home, i use my laptop and my dac to record with mic and real amps
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Old 04-16-2022, 11:59 AM   #2
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Quick question about the specifics of your personal setup...

Could you make a quick list of what you have on hand?

It might help as far as avoiding suggestions that you would have a tough time implementing.
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Old 04-16-2022, 12:02 PM   #3
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Past all of that...

We do live in a world where folks have devised methods to record actual amps without them actually putting out anything in the way of sound that would create an issue in the "Classic Coke..." amp recording scenario.

It would be a little bit more complicated, but it is an option.
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Old 04-16-2022, 01:19 PM   #4
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If you're asking if I use the USB output of a guitar box or the line out, I'd probably use USB if it had it, the line out into the interface if it didn't.
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Old 04-16-2022, 11:21 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
Quick question about the specifics of your personal setup...

Could you make a quick list of what you have on hand?

It might help as far as avoiding suggestions that you would have a tough time implementing.
Hi
2 Fender , strat and tele , and an ibanez ,and a taylor acoustic
line 6 helix lt and a boss gt-1000 ,scarlett Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen ,mic Shure SM57
amps Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue , marshall jcm 800 100w

as i have said i live in an appartament , my neighbors call the police if i plug my tube amps , the only way is use my solid state amps ,but they are toys

recoring via usb with the new boss gt-1000 and helix Lt ,do sound so artificial
maybe a plugin could make the sound more natural

thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
Past all of that...

We do live in a world where folks have devised methods to record actual amps without them actually putting out anything in the way of sound that would create an issue in the "Classic Coke..." amp recording scenario.

It would be a little bit more complicated, but it is an option.
hi
what do you mean ?
do you mean use some plugins like amplitube or others

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdubreeze View Post
If you're asking if I use the USB output of a guitar box or the line out, I'd probably use USB if it had it, the line out into the interface if it didn't.
Hi
but does it sound natural or very artificial ?
thanks
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Old 04-16-2022, 11:45 PM   #6
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Hi

i'm watching some plugins but they don't make the elettic guitar more real sadly
there is PSP Audioware Vintage Warmer 2 but very exansive
listen
https://youtu.be/8scoYoJytMI?t=329
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Old 04-17-2022, 02:13 AM   #7
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I use the guitar straight to the interface and plugins.
I don't play guitar, but I have it for when a guitar player shows up.
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Old 04-17-2022, 02:39 AM   #8
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I use the guitar straight to the interface and plugins.
I don't play guitar, but I have it for when a guitar player shows up.
Hi
do you mean plugins like overloud or amplitube?
thanks
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Old 04-17-2022, 03:00 AM   #9
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Hi
do you mean plugins like overloud or amplitube?
thanks
Yes. I've got the Guitar Rig included in Komplete Start, and some other freebies.
My metal friends use Neural DSP.

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Old 04-18-2022, 11:48 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Gaia View Post
Hi
2 Fender , strat and tele , and an ibanez ,and a taylor acoustic
line 6 helix lt and a boss gt-1000 ,scarlett Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 3rd Gen ,mic Shure SM57
amps Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue , marshall jcm 800 100w

as i have said i live in an appartament , my neighbors call the police if i plug my tube amps , the only way is use my solid state amps ,but they are toys

recoring via usb with the new boss gt-1000 and helix Lt ,do sound so artificial
maybe a plugin could make the sound more natural

thanks


hi
what do you mean ?
do you mean use some plugins like amplitube or others


Hi
but does it sound natural or very artificial ?
thanks
I know the feeling of not being able to use amps (even 15W Princeton) at home it’s not nice.

I don’t know the usb capabilities of your helix and boss kit in detail. By this I mean that some kit like my old Line 6 POD Xtlive (pre helix) can act as an audio interface as well as a floor based amp sim and effects. You don’t list monitor speakers in your kit. These monitor speakers would be connected to the POD or Scarlett for audio out for both Reaper and the guitar being recorded.

The critical thing being that the computer audio (I.e. Reaper playback) used the Asio drivers and the POD to playback too when using USB as it acts both as POD direct USB record and also as USB Audio output.

If you are using a PC then it’s not simple to use more than one audio interface ( so both the helix and Scarlett) at the same time without using Asio4All [I don’t want to recommend that as I had issues with it, you may not though ]. With a PC this would be the way to use both the Helix/Boss with the Scarlett. In such a case probably the Scarlett would need monitors for the audio playback.

Alternatively you can use plugins, Amplitube or other Blue cat amp sim and there are pedals plugins too to replace the helix/boss. I use these too for much same reason as you experience.
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Old 04-18-2022, 12:03 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Boogieshoes View Post
I know the feeling of not being able to use amps (even 15W Princeton) at home it’s not nice.

I don’t know the usb capabilities of your helix and boss kit in detail. By this I mean that some kit like my old Line 6 POD Xtlive (pre helix) can act as an audio interface as well as a floor based amp sim and effects. You don’t list monitor speakers in your kit. These monitor speakers would be connected to the POD or Scarlett for audio out for both Reaper and the guitar being recorded.

The critical thing being that the computer audio (I.e. Reaper playback) used the Asio drivers and the POD to playback too when using USB as it acts both as POD direct USB record and also as USB Audio output.

If you are using a PC then it’s not simple to use more than one audio interface ( so both the helix and Scarlett) at the same time without using Asio4All [I don’t want to recommend that as I had issues with it, you may not though ]. With a PC this would be the way to use both the Helix/Boss with the Scarlett. In such a case probably the Scarlett would need monitors for the audio playback.

Alternatively you can use plugins, Amplitube or other Blue cat amp sim and there are pedals plugins too to replace the helix/boss. I use these too for much same reason as you experience.
hi
first thanks for all your advises
well , i'm a mac user ,and only few day i started to use windows 10 ,because many friends told me reaper work really better under windows
honestly i have not seeing any differences between windows/mac reaper performace, it's amazing on both system
about Asio4All , do you mean it's a good idea to install under windows or not?
line 6 and boss have their asio drivers like scarlett
might I listen some your tracks recored without a mic and an amp ?

thanks
best regards
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Old 04-18-2022, 01:27 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Gaia View Post
hi
first thanks for all your advises
well , i'm a mac user ,and only few day i started to use windows 10 ,because many friends told me reaper work really better under windows
honestly i have not seeing any differences between windows/mac reaper performace, it's amazing on both system
about Asio4All , do you mean it's a good idea to install under windows or not?
line 6 and boss have their asio drivers like scarlett
might I listen some your tracks recored without a mic and an amp ?

thanks
best regards
No problem with the help ‘ideas’. If you are using a MAC then there are others who have experience of MACS that should be able to help far more than I can as I haven’t touched a MAC since Apple II many years ago.

A Mac does facilitate multiple audio devices and does not need the Asio4All PC ‘sort of fix’ that I mentioned.

I am sure there are plenty of Reaper users who would say the MAC is as good if not better than a PC so don’t think of it as a problem, just work the problem to find the best way to get to play your guitar and record it. However brutal hearing yourself back is, and I challenge anybody to not hear faults in their own playing, it is a good thing to do.

I am sure you’ll find a way. I have to say that using an audio interface as a guitar input pre a plug-in has many differences and I don’t find it as simple to use vol/tone on the guitar in the same way as direct to pedals and into an Amp. There are many player who do use them both for recording and live, it is just that some things have to be approached differently. At least that’s how it seems to me.

I hope a MAc user can offer you a bit more specific assistance. I think most would use Mac OS but we’ll see
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Old 04-18-2022, 10:01 PM   #13
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No problem with the help ‘ideas’. If you are using a MAC then there are others who have experience of MACS that should be able to help far more than I can as I haven’t touched a MAC since Apple II many years ago.

A Mac does facilitate multiple audio devices and does not need the Asio4All PC ‘sort of fix’ that I mentioned.

I am sure there are plenty of Reaper users who would say the MAC is as good if not better than a PC so don’t think of it as a problem, just work the problem to find the best way to get to play your guitar and record it. However brutal hearing yourself back is, and I challenge anybody to not hear faults in their own playing, it is a good thing to do.

I am sure you’ll find a way. I have to say that using an audio interface as a guitar input pre a plug-in has many differences and I don’t find it as simple to use vol/tone on the guitar in the same way as direct to pedals and into an Amp. There are many player who do use them both for recording and live, it is just that some things have to be approached differently. At least that’s how it seems to me.

I hope a MAc user can offer you a bit more specific assistance. I think most would use Mac OS but we’ll see
Hi
ok , but now i'm under windows 10 , why can't i use more than 1 dac in the same time?
can't plug 2 dac(audio cards) in a windows computer , can I?
would like to listen a record audio clip and ask what they did to let it play more natural
on youtube there are lots of tutorials ,but i guess there some tips to do it
thanks
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Old 04-18-2022, 10:22 PM   #14
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Hi
ok , but now i'm under windows 10 , why can't i use more than 1 dac in the same time?
can't plug 2 dac(audio cards) in a windows computer , can I?
would like to listen a record audio clip and ask what they did to let it play more natural
on youtube there are lots of tutorials ,but i guess there some tips to do it
thanks
Because Windows has never delivered driver/core software that combines multiple audio devices (composite audio device configuration). A MAC with its own OS does apparently.

So in Windows the Asio4All software that was recently updated to version 2.15 was released. It fudges a was of combining audio devices in Windows to do what MAC OS allows anyway. Asio4All is not without issues that you would probably avoid if using the MAC OS and it’s native software. As I said, I do not have a MAC but many music people use them in preference to Windows.

A quick search will find posts on the forum where this is discussed. There is also a MAC specific section if using MAC OS and Reaper.
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Old 04-19-2022, 06:49 AM   #15
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Any audio examples of that "artificial" sound? How the recorded patches look like? Helix or Boss should give you anything needed to sound great, maybe it's just a matter of dialing the right settings.

(am using Helix in plugin version and can't be more pleased)
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Old 04-19-2022, 07:23 AM   #16
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as i have said i live in an appartament , my neighbors call the police if i plug my tube amps , the only way is use my solid state amps ,but they are toys
I live in a house, but my guitar rig is sooper quiet, even with screaming lead tones dialed up. I use a twin twelve Gretsch speaker cabinet in the closet with a Sennheiser 421 mic on it. In the room I use an Orange Micro Terror 20w amp turned WAY down and set for a clean tube sound. Lastly, I use a Digitech preamp/pedalboard to control the tones. The Digitech has both a solid state and a tube preamp, and that's where I dial the level of clean to distortion, but the level of the speaker cab in the closet is about the same level as people talking in the room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogieshoes View Post
I know the feeling of not being able to use amps (even 15W Princeton) at home it’s not nice.
I could play through screaming amp in the room, but I prefer not to. When I record guitar, I hear it in my JBL studio monitors, but it is a low power amp with speakers mic'd up that I'm hearing.

This is what I'm using for recording,

https://sclkssl.ssl.hwcdn.net/68/img...205_805969.jpg

and it is quiet enough I could definitely play through it in an apartment and no one would ever know. The guitar solos on this,

https://www.soundclick.com/music/son...ongID=14382595

were played through that rig, and in the room you could not hear the speaker cab in the closet, but you could hear the guitar through the studio monitors.
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Old 04-19-2022, 11:40 PM   #17
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Any audio examples of that "artificial" sound? How the recorded patches look like? Helix or Boss should give you anything needed to sound great, maybe it's just a matter of dialing the right settings.

(am using Helix in plugin version and can't be more pleased)
hi
the line 6 helix lt and boss amps sound artificial ,like marshall or fender tube amps
maybe the plugin is better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I live in a house, but my guitar rig is sooper quiet, even with screaming lead tones dialed up. I use a twin twelve Gretsch speaker cabinet in the closet with a Sennheiser 421 mic on it. In the room I use an Orange Micro Terror 20w amp turned WAY down and set for a clean tube sound. Lastly, I use a Digitech preamp/pedalboard to control the tones. The Digitech has both a solid state and a tube preamp, and that's where I dial the level of clean to distortion, but the level of the speaker cab in the closet is about the same level as people talking in the room.



I could play through screaming amp in the room, but I prefer not to. When I record guitar, I hear it in my JBL studio monitors, but it is a low power amp with speakers mic'd up that I'm hearing.

This is what I'm using for recording,

https://sclkssl.ssl.hwcdn.net/68/img...205_805969.jpg

and it is quiet enough I could definitely play through it in an apartment and no one would ever know. The guitar solos on this,

https://www.soundclick.com/music/son...ongID=14382595

were played through that rig, and in the room you could not hear the speaker cab in the closet, but you could hear the guitar through the studio monitors.
hi
really beautiful guitar sound so clear and no natural!
do you use your digitech with send & return?
by the why Orange Micro Terror is a great tube amp
thanks
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Old 04-20-2022, 07:14 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Gaia View Post
really beautiful guitar sound so clear and no natural!
do you use your digitech with send & return?
Thanks. The signal flow is Digitech -> Micro Terror -> speaker cab in the closet. The Micro Terror is set for a clean Fender tube amp sound if the Digitech is completely bypassed, and that never gets changed. You can see in the pic I linked that the gain knob is all the way down on the Micro Terror. The Digitech is creating all the higher gain sounds, and since it's programmable, I just switch through its patches until I find one that works with whatever the song calls for.

Quote:
by the why Orange Micro Terror is a great tube amp
thanks
With a multi-FX pedalboard in front of a Micro Terror you can get ultra high gain sounds at a micro sized volume. When recording guitar, the amp/speaker is never even heard until the sound comes out the JBL studio monitor speakers. I would have to crank my monitors way up to make the guitar loud enough to bother anyone.
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Old 04-20-2022, 07:18 AM   #19
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Signal flow is Digitech -> Micro Terror -> speaker cab in the closet. The Micro Terror is set for a Fender clean tube sound if the Digitech is bypassed, and it never changes. The Digitech is doing all the higher gain sounds, and since it's programmable, I just switch through its patches until I find one that works with whatever the song calls for.



With a multi-FX pedalboard in front of a Micro Terror you can get ultra high gain sounds at a micro sized volume. When recording guitar, the amp/speaker is never even heard until the sound comes out the JBL studio monitor speakers. I would have to crank my monitors way up to make the guitar loud enough to bother anyone.
Hi
thanks ,but with a multi fx pedalboard in front of a micro terror , i will loose the orange "sound"
have found a 100% transparent pedalboard even in 4 cables
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Old 04-20-2022, 07:21 AM   #20
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Signal flow is Digitech -> Micro Terror -> speaker cab in the closet. The Micro Terror is set for a Fender clean tube sound if the Digitech is bypassed, and it never changes. The Digitech is doing all the higher gain sounds, and since it's programmable, I just switch through its patches until I find one that works with whatever the song calls for.



With a multi-FX pedalboard in front of a Micro Terror you can get ultra high gain sounds at a micro sized volume. When recording guitar, the amp/speaker is never even heard until the sound comes out the JBL studio monitor speakers. I would have to crank my monitors way up to make the guitar loud enough to bother anyone.
I recorded a Micro Terror once I think

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Old 04-20-2022, 07:45 AM   #21
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I recorded a Micro Terror once I think
Hehe, I'll bet that acoustic guitar was screaming though it!

They are great little low power amps. I tried plugging my Digitech RP7 in direct for recording a couple of times, but it just didn't have the natural sound and liveliness of a speaker with a mic. I briefly thought about buying one of these Jet City speaker isolation cabinets,



but then decided to just try putting a Gretsch speaker cab and mic I already had in the closet. That worked so well, I've used it like that for the last 18 years.
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Old 04-20-2022, 08:24 AM   #22
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maybe the plugin is better
Helix in plugin is the exact same thing.

I did things below with it, no idea how natural it sounds to you, but I wasn't disappointed with the results (sound perfectly electric guitary to me)



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Old 04-20-2022, 11:03 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I live in a house, but my guitar rig is sooper quiet, even with screaming lead tones dialed up. I use a twin twelve Gretsch speaker cabinet in the closet with a Sennheiser 421 mic on it. In the room I use an Orange Micro Terror 20w amp turned WAY down and set for a clean tube sound. Lastly, I use a Digitech preamp/pedalboard to control the tones. The Digitech has both a solid state and a tube preamp, and that's where I dial the level of clean to distortion, but the level of the speaker cab in the closet is about the same level as people talking in the room.



I could play through screaming amp in the room, but I prefer not to. When I record guitar, I hear it in my JBL studio monitors, but it is a low power amp with speakers mic'd up that I'm hearing.

This is what I'm using for recording,

https://sclkssl.ssl.hwcdn.net/68/img...205_805969.jpg

and it is quiet enough I could definitely play through it in an apartment and no one would ever know. The guitar solos on this,

https://www.soundclick.com/music/son...ongID=14382595

were played through that rig, and in the room you could not hear the speaker cab in the closet, but you could hear the guitar through the studio monitors.
Glenn,

Some very kind and helpful info. I have listened to a few of your recording having followed some of your previous posts over the years. Like Tods ‘stuff’ it is really well produced and your experience shows in a number of areas, not just engineering/production but playing too (multi instrumental - I cannot match).

My music (do everything) room is what you might call ‘a closet’ your studio space looked palatial in comparison to mine from the studio baffle board posts. I could not have anybody else in the room with me, it is really tight for me with an acoustic a stool and mic stand. So your idea of ‘closeting’ the amp speaker may not work in my place as at minimum it would have to contain the Princeton reverb and mic mounts as well as be capable of minimising the volume levels…. I wouldn’t get in the room.
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Old 04-20-2022, 11:14 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by zeekat View Post
Helix in plugin is the exact same thing.

I did things below with it, no idea how natural it sounds to you, but I wasn't disappointed with the results (sound perfectly electric guitary to me)



Hi zeekat
really beautiful songs and sound , i liked a lot the first track
and guitar sound are really so real , I guess i have spent too much time using effects with real amps
I have to learn how to create a patch that can sound well via usb or dac
ps ,beautiful landascape ,really maight I know the location?
thanks
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Old 04-20-2022, 11:18 AM   #25
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Hehe, I'll bet that acoustic guitar was screaming though it!

They are great little low power amps. I tried plugging my Digitech RP7 in direct for recording a couple of times, but it just didn't have the natural sound and liveliness of a speaker with a mic. I briefly thought about buying one of these Jet City speaker isolation cabinets,


but then decided to just try putting a Gretsch speaker cab and mic I already had in the closet. That worked so well, I've used it like that for the last 18 years.
Hi Glennbo
great advises , really , i really appreciate them a lot
i will try to do my best on my small room , first i will try an attenuator , a friend of mine has 2 o 3 ,because he owns many amps
I will try with my fender blues deluxe
it i won't be the best solution , i will try another tips like your little amps
thanks
sorry for my poor english
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Old 04-20-2022, 11:46 AM   #26
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Hi Glennbo
great advises , really , i really appreciate them a lot
i will try to do my best on my small room , first i will try an attenuator , a friend of mine has 2 o 3 ,because he owns many amps
I will try with my fender blues deluxe
it i won't be the best solution , i will try another tips like your little amps
thanks
sorry for my poor english
Good luck getting something setup. I also tried used a power attenuator for a while. The Gretsch speaker cabinet in my closet is actually a 35 watt 1950s combo amp. I disconnected the speakers from the amp, and put a power attenuator between them, but the old Gretsch still didn't get the kind of drive I wanted, so I put a 1/4" jack to the speakers so I could use other amps with them.

Just using the Micro Terror and speakers on the Gretsch I can get great high gain and overdriven sounds at real low volumes, but since I can also do the same using the Digitech preamp/pedalboard, I prefer to do it there so all the amp tones I like to use are instantly available as presets that can be called up.

Another BIG plus to using a programmable front end is that if you decide to re-track guitar parts later on, you can just call up the preset that was used, and instantly have the exact sound again so replacing previously recorded takes won't suddenly sound different where guitar parts were replaced.
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Old 04-20-2022, 12:58 PM   #27
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beautiful landascape ,really maight I know the location?
thanks
Not sure, but I think it's mostly Thailand.
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Old 04-20-2022, 05:13 PM   #28
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First...

There's no real need to apologize for English not being a first language. Everybody is coming from somewhere.

Now, as for the Helix as an option?

I don't know that I would be in a hurry to write it off as a possibility.

Take this Joe Gore Helix board for "Bop..."/"Swing..." sounds. To me, it is a perfectly acceptable option that I might just take as my first choice for the sounds in question.

Accounting for that reality?

It might just be a matter of working out how the Helix will get you to where you want to go. Not really "If..." it can get you there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOdQB0lIm6E
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Old 04-20-2022, 09:51 PM   #29
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Hi
thanks ,but with a multi fx pedalboard in front of a micro terror , i will loose the orange "sound"
have found a 100% transparent pedalboard even in 4 cables
The Orange Micro Terror is a great sounding amp, and could be easily used by itself with a speaker cabinet at low volume and get a very acceptable guitar sound. I just prefer having a programmable preamp in front of the Orange amp, so I can setup presets. The lead tone my band mate of 48 years used on that sample track I linked to was one of my usual Digitech presets.
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Old 04-20-2022, 10:30 PM   #30
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Glenn,

Some very kind and helpful info. I have listened to a few of your recording having followed some of your previous posts over the years. Like Tods ‘stuff’ it is really well produced and your experience shows in a number of areas, not just engineering/production but playing too (multi instrumental - I cannot match).
Thanks BoogieShoes, the thing I think is most important is to use what you've got to work with to try and get your ideas recorded as quick as possible before they fade. That's why I like using a programmable guitar preamp/pedalboard so I can get on with recording, and skip the dialing up a sound for the guitar.

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My music (do everything) room is what you might call ‘a closet’ your studio space looked palatial in comparison to mine from the studio baffle board posts. I could not have anybody else in the room with me, it is really tight for me with an acoustic a stool and mic stand. So your idea of ‘closeting’ the amp speaker may not work in my place as at minimum it would have to contain the Princeton reverb and mic mounts as well as be capable of minimising the volume levels…. I wouldn’t get in the room.
The closet I use for the Gretsch speaker cab is also my guitar closet. Space is at a premium here with a set of acoustic drums and a set of V-Drums, plus a bunch of stringed instruments. This is the guitar closet which houses the Gretsch 6159 used for all electric guitar recordings here, plus the bulk of my guitars.

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Old 04-20-2022, 10:45 PM   #31
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First...

There's no real need to apologize for English not being a first language. Everybody is coming from somewhere.

Now, as for the Helix as an option?

I don't know that I would be in a hurry to write it off as a possibility.

Take this Joe Gore Helix board for "Bop..."/"Swing..." sounds. To me, it is a perfectly acceptable option that I might just take as my first choice for the sounds in question.

Accounting for that reality?

It might just be a matter of working out how the Helix will get you to where you want to go. Not really "If..." it can get you there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOdQB0lIm6E
Hi
great jazzy sound
i guess i 'm too used to play with tubeamp with fender sound , like vibrolux (a Wonderfull amp and i played for years ) , my ears are used to listen these amps , the the pedalboard even the new one , well sound different for me
maybe it's just a matter of time or I need patience , and adapt to the new tecnology at least at home
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