Old 01-27-2022, 07:22 PM   #1
ayskura
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Default Auto-Sampler

I would love to have an option to create samples automatically. For example connect an old keyboard and it automatically sample each key (sending a midi note and recording the output) and creates an instance of Reasamplomatic5000 for each note (until a poluphonic sampler arises in reaper).

it would be awesome
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Old 01-28-2022, 05:46 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by ayskura View Post
I would love to have an option to create samples automatically. For example connect an old keyboard and it automatically sample each key (sending a midi note and recording the output) and creates an instance of Reasamplomatic5000 for each note (until a poluphonic sampler arises in reaper).

it would be awesome
+1
that would be killer
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Old 01-28-2022, 06:25 AM   #3
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Try Mpl's script: Export selected items to RS5k instances on selected track.lua
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Old 01-28-2022, 02:31 PM   #4
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mpl_Sample focused FX to RS5k.lua

I added a note limits.
If I try to sample more that 12 notes REAPER randomly crashes (probably I should do some delay between adding instances).

Also I didn`t exactly get does your keyboard external (so you just have track with hardware MIDI output/ hardware audio input)? If yes than I have to slightly mod conditions.
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Old 01-29-2022, 12:27 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Vagelis View Post
Try Mpl's script: Export selected items to RS5k instances on selected track.lua
Totally unrelated, i think.
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Old 01-29-2022, 12:39 AM   #6
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i'll explain the concept:
An autosampler feature would be something like:

1. create a midi track with notes to be sent to the hardware (or Plugin instrument)
2. let you decide the starting note, the lenght of the note (sample)
3. let you decide how many notes and the interval between note to sample (for example, generate an event every 3 semitones)
4. let you decide how many velocity layers

5. start the sampling process and do the following things automatically:
- split the recording and naming items according to "name_velocity_note" (or similiar)
- adjust the start time of the samples to compensate latency
- determine starting point for looping regions for every note

6. at the end let you export the samples, with their metadata, ready to be loaded into ANY sampler (hardware or software) and take advantage of auto mapping functions (if available).

That's (in short) how SampleRobot and other Auto Samplers (such as the one in Main Stage) work.

This is a killer feature for sample library makers
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Old 01-29-2022, 01:27 PM   #7
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You just described the autosampler we already have... just make a project template with that and reuse it for autosampling over and over again!

heres few things youll need:
1. pre made midi output track, with midi clips, corresponding to whatever velocities, cc settings you want for each sample.
2. you need a audio input to record the incoming samples to.
3. regions (prenamed for easy importing using the automapping of whatever sampler of choise you choose to use)to chop those samples up and create loop points etc etc.

Then you just set a start and end point for your recording, hit record, go make some coffee and come back later when its done,
run export regions, drag the files into your sampler and you're done!

Now go sample some stuff.


ps. after doing it once you realise setting this kind of session up is so trivially easy that its really a non issue to do it custom for every sampling session.

pss. you could even go as far as to make a premade instrument file, sfz for exmple that has the mapping preset so you just have to import that to the sampler of your choise, so theres really no work to be done inside the sampler even.

Last edited by henu; 01-29-2022 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 01-30-2022, 04:48 AM   #8
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Now, if the process was that easy with non-MIDI instruments...
Go make coffee while my guitar gets multisampled
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Old 01-30-2022, 08:41 AM   #9
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You just described the autosampler we already have... just make a project template with that and reuse it for autosampling over and over again!

ETC....
Not even close...editing and LOOPING is the hardest part.
I made a Cycle Action that does this but people are thinking samples just as one shot/sigle take/sigle track process...and it's not.
Especially naming velocities AND notes the right way is very crucial along with creation of seamless loop sections and looping cues to be written in metadata.

Yeah...i know how to use render region matrix and all, but that's not the point...

I did an example for midi instruments, but for acoustic instruments would be nice to have a generator of visual cues to follow during the process showing notes to play, dynamics to do and duration marks.

EDIT: just for reference, for looping i'm currently use and external program called EndlessWAV (free) that has some caviat and funkiness, but is still a lot faster than looping a sample in Reaper

Last edited by bigjoe; 01-30-2022 at 08:46 AM.
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Old 02-01-2022, 03:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpl View Post
mpl_Sample focused FX to RS5k.lua

I added a note limits.
If I try to sample more that 12 notes REAPER randomly crashes (probably I should do some delay between adding instances).

Also I didn`t exactly get does your keyboard external (so you just have track with hardware MIDI output/ hardware audio input)? If yes than I have to slightly mod conditions.
Fantastic!
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Old 02-02-2022, 08:30 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by bigjoe View Post
Not even close...editing and LOOPING is the hardest part.
I made a Cycle Action that does this but people are thinking samples just as one shot/sigle take/sigle track process...and it's not.
Especially naming velocities AND notes the right way is very crucial along with creation of seamless loop sections and looping cues to be written in metadata.

Yeah...i know how to use render region matrix and all, but that's not the point...

I did an example for midi instruments, but for acoustic instruments would be nice to have a generator of visual cues to follow during the process showing notes to play, dynamics to do and duration marks.

EDIT: just for reference, for looping i'm currently use and external program called EndlessWAV (free) that has some caviat and funkiness, but is still a lot faster than looping a sample in Reaper
Yes editing and looping is the hardest part... and you think a computer is going to do a good job at it? considering the variables of polishing up a sampling session?

Endlesswav is good for puretones, those you can basically patch in that app or any of the other abandonwares that do this kinda stuff, complex waveforms you want to use relative loop points from the start of the sample with xfade if you want to batch them. theres no way around that. this you can automate with cycle actions.

editing (i suppose you mean the cutting?) you can already do very well with
mk slicer. cut to transient, or punch, pre, or trigger event. your choice. this is not something that the computer can choose for you ether., needs to sometimes be changed over the different registers of a instrument and so on. but this can totally make or break the instrument so pick wisely.

you can already set up maching visual cues using any of the marker visualisation/text item visualisation scripts, or video generator items, to your premade regions. (maybe have a "hold cue" where you got your # loop regions!) and then release cue for the end so you get all the 3 bits at one go! woohoo!

also you really really dont want to slave people to a clock like that when sampling humans. it's gonna lead to stress, and more mistakes than freeclicking. Unless you do a ensemble in which case really you should be scoring it out and recording to click with very strict framework. and its so fucking slow and expensive you really dont what to have some robot make any more of a mess of it.

if you want to do multi dyn/rr/mic/interval stuff its already so complicated and the approaches vary that theres no way you can automate that process in any other way than by having a good audioeditor with designated scripts for each task and rigorous project management. kinda like reaper hey!! and thats how the bigboys do it. maybe you can do that too?

autosampling really only works on the stuff that has midi inputs. humans don't. too many variables... unless you can figure out how to teach a neural network to slice properly from spectral charts with naming and loopschemes and then have it export premapped patch wtih xfades baked, maybe then we can have some fun with it but before that i think its better to use the individual tools and manage the work by hand when dealing with humans.

-h

Last edited by henu; 02-02-2022 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 02-03-2022, 02:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henu View Post
Yes editing and looping is the hardest part... and you think... ETC

-h
Well,
First of all, take it easy.
Second, yes...computer software now days are pretty good at giving you starting point for looping, SampleRobot is pretty decent and you can do a 1000+ sample session totally automated.
Templates are good and all, but they are not modular and you must adjust things based on how much samples you are going to do, how much velocity layers, sample durations and number of articulations.
I'm currently working on an analog synth Kontakt Library...believe me or not, endlessWav did is job even on some Wavestation stuff i did the last year.
But to prove you that what you suggest is well known to me here's a BETTER way to loop samples in reaper with my cycle action (this is for short samples but you can add steps and do longer fades:




And that's just for looping.
For splitting i'm using SWS smart markers that are very convenient for sampling midi instruments and they are suitable for acoustic instruments too.
Also th "human factor" you mentioned has nothing to do with visual cues that ensure we have time to space different notes/ performances, make vocal annotations live during the session (wich is not uncommon, even on a specific track) and be sure that everything stays organized and not placed in a random fashion.

Now, my rant is: why argue against a legit FR (which is just a suggestion) made by people who know some stuff?
It's just legit to ask for "quality-of-life" features.
Of course thing s can be done in Reaper, in many ways... but why we can't ask for something without people telling us "hey you can do it the long way!"

I'll end the rant here, just because i don't like to fight over those small things.

Sorry if i look rude, i didn't want to offend or upset anyone
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Old 02-05-2022, 07:46 AM   #13
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Well,
First of all, take it easy.
etc.
Indeed, that came off a bit more flippant than intended. Long day. Sorry about that!

Was just trying to stress the impracticality of this kind of functionality when it comes to the complications that I laid out. There's a reason why we dont have good tools that do this kind of stuff without manual supervision (and as such its not really automatic at all!)

You're in essense asking for a pretty complicated "one workflow fits all" solution, that needs constant babysitting to do things. Theres so many ways to sample things that its hardly going to be possible to account for all the effincies that can be brought to the table by good planning. and as such you end up with a baked in template workflow that most likely is going to waste more time and reguire more jumping trough hoops than whats really needed to get the job done.

Indeed if this kind of thing can be automated comprehensively and reliably enough to be really useful, sure, lets have it, I'd use the shit out of it.
But I doubt a automated solution can really bring anything more into the table than offer a cursory introduction to the idea of making multisamples to someone just getting into sampling. Anything more serious will have to be done by hand to achieve good enough QC.
And as such the whole enterprise just kinda whittles down to lots of work for very little practical results.

-h
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Old 02-07-2022, 02:46 AM   #14
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Nothing complicated.
I guess it's so easy that i did' it partially with a simple cycle actions.
What the Cycle Action lacks is "parametrization" and customization of some things that can vary from session to session.

I'm pretty confident this can be done with a script or an extension (i'm not a programmer so i'm not 100% sure, i can only partially deal with Kontakt KSP).

It's a very simple task, but very time consuming to set up.

What we ask is a way of setting things fast and easy without the hassle of the time consuming task of modify a template to suit every specific session.

For example, could be cool to configure a session in a simple pop-up window that asks:

- Are you going to sample an acoustic or midi instrument?

> if midi, ask for note duration, how many notes per octave to sample, how many
velocity layers, how many RR (if needed) what midi port to use, generate midi events to be sent.

> if acoustic, ask for average sample duration, how many notes, how many
velocity layers, how many articulations, how many RR AND generate Markers and
Punchers and Streamers (as in the useful script from Xexano) as visual cue
with text suggesting note to play, dynamics to use, when to play ecc..

At the end of the recording process process, name each items with a scheme
- $track_articulation_vel_note (for example) -

Then run an action to split when the signal is over an user defined threshold (with lead and trail pads and relative xfades), create regions from items named as the items them selves, run an action for endless loop (in the style of my cycle action or maybe a better one with sample reverse?) and create overlapping regions, relative to the looping portion, named "#loop" to embed looping metadata in the render process.

After that leave to the user the "quality check" and adjustments for loops and sample start and the final render.

I guess it's not overly complicated (as a concept) and for sure all of this stuff is time consuming to be set manually or by modifying an exixting template especially when dealing with very large projects involving to sample every note, a lot of velocity layers, round robins etc..

And BTW a FR is a suggestion to the developers, not an impositions from the users.
They will probably never consider this FR, but we are here to keep our hopes high, because is the only thing we can do about it
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