Old 09-03-2014, 01:16 PM   #1
headcase915
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Default MASTERING HELP!!!!

ive been using reaper for a good 3 years now and never encountered this problem untill I upgraded my computer from a 2000 win xp to a 2013 win 7 the daw works and Im able to pack on the plugin without freezing or latency BUT when i master my tracks sound kick fucking ass on my monitors but when i render and toss them on my ipod and play them back in my truck all of a sudden my guitars sound 4 db lower and the sound waves up and down volume wise like someone is turning up and down the volume internally... can anyone help me!

My mastering chain:
1. Spectral analyzer
2. ReaQ (Parametric EQ - High Pass Filter)
3. FerricTDS (Tape Emulation)
4. ReaQ (Parametric EQ - High Shelving Filter)
5. Waves Maxx Bass (Bass Enhancer)
6. DestinymkII (Compressor)
7. Waves Stereo imager (Stereo Widener)
8. CS112m (final EQ, high pass)
9. ReaXComp (Multiband Compressor)
10. JS (Soft Clipper)
11. Loud Max (Brickwall Limiter)

what the hell am i doing wrong? and why is my master sounding amateur compared to masters done previously on my old computer?

Last edited by headcase915; 09-03-2014 at 01:19 PM. Reason: CHANGE NOTIFICATION SETTINGS
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:30 PM   #2
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how do the renders sound on your monitors
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:33 PM   #3
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also, your kind of spamming the forum.. you have at least 3 of these posts. I don't think that helps
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:38 PM   #4
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That's a lot of compressors.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:51 PM   #5
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... and eqs.
... and everything enhancers.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:52 PM   #6
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At first look, I'd say your "Mastering Chain", is highly convoluted.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:21 PM   #7
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also, your kind of spamming the forum.. you have at least 3 of these posts. I don't think that helps

Yeah Ive never used the forum before... I thought that different sections would be seen by different users so i posted it in 3 different locations.. sorry about that.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:24 PM   #8
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how do the renders sound on your monitors
well if i play it in reaper before i render it sounds phenomenal after i render it and i put it on my ipod and listen in my truck it sounds like crap...
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:42 PM   #9
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how do the renders sound on your monitors
Just listened to the rendered tracks in reaper... they sound great... but the guitaRS are slightly lower on the master so im guessing its the rendering thing im gonna try keeping the sample rates and bit rates the same across the board see if that helps me out

Last edited by headcase915; 09-03-2014 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:56 PM   #10
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Hi,

Sry didn't go thru all posts but, after the update did u change the default pan laws?

It happened to me b4 after an OS change.

Hth

Guido
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:01 PM   #11
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Hi,

Sry didn't go thru all posts but, after the update did u change the default pan laws?

It happened to me b4 after an OS change.

Hth

Guido
not sure what you mean
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:01 PM   #12
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Just listened to the rendered tracks in reaper... they sound great... now what?
Hmmm most likely then its just the translation to your truck system. This is probably mix issues and/or the mastering processing. Can you convert it to mp3 and post a clip?
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:32 PM   #13
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it even sounds pretty ok on an ipod when heard thru headphones but in my truck.. using my ipod the guitars volume sounds reduced and the overall volume sounds like its waving up and down slightly you have to listen close but you can here the volume of the music go up and down slightly
Strange....
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Hmmm most likely then its just the translation to your truck system.
That's what I was thinking. I'm wondering if there's something wrong with the speakers.
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im guessing its the rendering thing
If that were the case, shouldn't it sound equally bad everywhere?

Try rendering a mono mix, and see how that sounds in your truck.
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:15 AM   #14
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I'm having a really hard time believing that it could be the audio mixdown or audio codec and not this complicated "mastering" chain involving layers of saturation, compression, excitation, and brickwall limiting.

Hear hoofbeats and think horses, not zebras.

Don't try to fix the mix during "mastering", because that's not what mastering is. If your "pre-mastered" mix doesn't sound at least decent on multiple devices (not just your monitors, but headphones, car stereo, cell phone, etc) then it isn't a good mix to begin with.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:47 PM   #15
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Strange....
That's what I was thinking. I'm wondering if there's something wrong with the speakers.
If that were the case, shouldn't it sound equally bad everywhere?

Try rendering a mono mix, and see how that sounds in your truck.
oh well i only listen betweent the monitors and my truck first.. its not till that test is passedt that i move on to boombox and other lower forms of listening to make sure it translates well across the board... but yeah it was the rendering thing.. the conversion of khz and bits was messing up somehow...
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:10 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by headcase915 View Post
Just listened to the rendered tracks in reaper... they sound great... but the guitaRS are slightly lower on the master so im guessing its the rendering thing im gonna try keeping the sample rates and bit rates the same across the board see if that helps me out
Let us know the results, Id like to se ya get this sorted
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headcase915 View Post
ive been using reaper for a good 3 years now and never encountered this problem untill I upgraded my computer from a 2000 win xp to a 2013 win 7 the daw works and Im able to pack on the plugin without freezing or latency BUT when i master my tracks sound kick fucking ass on my monitors but when i render and toss them on my ipod and play them back in my truck all of a sudden my guitars sound 4 db lower and the sound waves up and down volume wise like someone is turning up and down the volume internally... can anyone help me!

My mastering chain:
1. Spectral analyzer
2. ReaQ (Parametric EQ - High Pass Filter)
3. FerricTDS (Tape Emulation)
4. ReaQ (Parametric EQ - High Shelving Filter)
5. Waves Maxx Bass (Bass Enhancer)
6. DestinymkII (Compressor)
7. Waves Stereo imager (Stereo Widener)
8. CS112m (final EQ, high pass)
9. ReaXComp (Multiband Compressor)
10. JS (Soft Clipper)
11. Loud Max (Brickwall Limiter)

what the hell am i doing wrong? and why is my master sounding amateur compared to masters done previously on my old computer?
Using Maxx Bass in mastering buss is a very bad idea. use max bass in u r mix channel (bass gui & kick drum)

Remove all Compressors in Master track. use compression for individual track according to the need. dont over compress any track. use only a simple limiter to master track. IF ITS VERY ESSENTIAL AS U THINK USE A MULTI BAND COMPRESSOR AND COMPRESS. DONT COMPRESS OVER -3 DB (CHECK THE COMPRESSOR VU) .


Reaper V4 Has a problem in audio rendering. which makes u r mix sound worse. i had found a solution a few months ago. its simple "set u r freq and bit rate same everywhere" render your audio in same setting. for example if you recorded your audio in 48khz 24bit use all mix engine audio render setting in the same setting. dont jump from 24bit to 32 64 or to 16 in rendering. dont change 48khz to 44.1khz in rendering. after rendering convert your audio to u r desired need with an external editor like sound forge or adobe audition.

Last edited by Kawin; 09-03-2014 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:20 PM   #18
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Reaper V4 Has a problem in audio rendering. which makes u r mix sound worse.
Can you elaborate on this? What is reapers problem?
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:28 PM   #19
headcase915
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Originally Posted by thequietroom View Post
how do the renders sound on your monitors
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawin View Post
Using Maxx Bass in mastering buss is a very bad idea. use max bass in u r mix channel (bass gui & kick drum)

Remove all Compressors in Master track. use compression for individual track according to the need. dont over compress any track. use only a simple limiter to master track. IF ITS VERY ESSENTIAL AS U THINK USE A MULTI BAND COMPRESSOR AND COMPRESS. DONT COMPRESS OVER -3 DB (CHECK THE COMPRESSOR VU) .


Reaper V4 Has a problem in audio rendering. which makes u r mix sound worse. i had found a solution a few months ago. its simple "set u r freq and bit rate same everywhere" render your audio in same setting. for example if you recorded your audio in 48khz 24bit use all mix engine audio render setting in the same setting. dont jump from 24bit to 32 64 or to 16 in rendering. dont change 48khz to 44.1khz in rendering. after rendering convert your audio to u r desired need with an external editor like sound forge or adobe audition.
well its not on my master bus.. I have one stereo track with master unchecked and sent to a 2nd aux bus with my fx chain and nothing on the master track. but I am jumping from 48khz to 41khz and 24bit to 16bit... so i shouldn't be doing any of that?? and the chain adds slight impulses at different stages... rather than trying to do it all in one or 2 fx i spread my stuff out over several to get my desired master sound... its a layered effect...and only dont in sublte hints minus the multi band the soft clipper and the limiter.. oh and the maxx bass does actually give a certain warmth to the overall low end of the final sound i found... it gave it a little definition and roundness.

Last edited by headcase915; 09-03-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:35 PM   #20
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i think (and others may correct me) that its probably better to stay at 44.1 for tracking than to convert from 48 to 44.1. It has to do with the math and Ive read a lot indicating that that conversion can be destructive. I dont think it will cause the problem your describing however.

It comes down to this either there is a problem with the rendering ( and/or conversion to mp3) or it is really a problem with your signal chain and you may be hearing it louder in the project thinking it sounds better.

Render it to a lossless format, pull that file back into reaper, solo it and play it. Is it good or bad?
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:47 PM   #21
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i think (and others may correct me) that its probably better to stay at 44.1 for tracking than to convert from 48 to 44.1. It has to do with the math and Ive read a lot indicating that that conversion can be destructive. I dont think it will cause the problem your describing however.

It comes down to this either there is a problem with the rendering ( and/or conversion to mp3) or it is really a problem with your signal chain and you may be hearing it louder in the project thinking it sounds better.

Render it to a lossless format, pull that file back into reaper, solo it and play it. Is it good or bad?
im rendering to wav... when i mix down im rendering to 48khz at 24 bits. insert steero file into new project send to aux with fx chain master fader at z with nada on it render to 41khz 16bit still wav... place on ipod (still in wav mind you no converting to mp3 at this point) turn on vehicle and (POOP) sound vomit.... doesn't sound anything like what im hearing before i render.. but im gonna try leaving everything at 41khx 16bit to see if that works however my only questin would be...

"if im not changing the frq or bit rate should i uncheck dithering and noise shaping?
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Old 09-03-2014, 03:06 PM   #22
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im rendering to wav... when i mix down im rendering to 48khz at 24 bits. insert steero file into new project send to aux with fx chain master fader at z with nada on it render to 41khz 16bit still wav... place on ipod (still in wav mind you no converting to mp3 at this point) turn on vehicle and (POOP) sound vomit.... doesn't sound anything like what im hearing before i render.. but im gonna try leaving everything at 41khx 16bit to see if that works however my only questin would be...

"if im not changing the frq or bit rate should i uncheck dithering and noise shaping?
Yes uncheck if your not converting

general rule, only do dither and noise shaping upon last coversion to 16bit/44.1

it is not going to cause the issues your describing.

If the rendered wav file sounds wierd my suggestion would be to render your MIX down to 44.1 and not 48.

Pull the 44.1/24 bit file into your mastering project and try again.

Maybe something is wierd with processing and rendering and downsampling dithering all at the same time
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:36 PM   #23
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Have you tried an online render?
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:42 PM   #24
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Have you tried an online render?
how would i online render?
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:47 PM   #25
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The render dialog gives you options of full-speed offline, 1x offline, and online (and the newer idle options). Full-speed doesn't play nice with some plugs--I haven't used some of the ones you're using, but I've had problems with full-speed offline in some cases that have been fixed by doing an online render.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:55 PM   #26
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Remove all Compressors in Master track. use compression for individual track according to the need. dont over compress any track. use only a simple limiter to master track. IF ITS VERY ESSENTIAL AS U THINK USE A MULTI BAND COMPRESSOR AND COMPRESS. DONT COMPRESS OVER -3 DB (CHECK THE COMPRESSOR VU) .
This is a very bad an wrong advice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawin View Post
Reaper V4 Has a problem in audio rendering. which makes u r mix sound worse. i had found a solution a few months ago. its simple "set u r freq and bit rate same everywhere" render your audio in same setting. for example if you recorded your audio in 48khz 24bit use all mix engine audio render setting in the same setting. dont jump from 24bit to 32 64 or to 16 in rendering. dont change 48khz to 44.1khz in rendering. after rendering convert your audio to u r desired need with an external editor like sound forge or adobe audition.
This is even not true.
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:57 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawin View Post
Reaper V4 Has a problem in audio rendering. which makes u r mix sound worse. i had found a solution a few months ago. its simple "set u r freq and bit rate same everywhere" render your audio in same setting. for example if you recorded your audio in 48khz 24bit use all mix engine audio render setting in the same setting. dont jump from 24bit to 32 64 or to 16 in rendering. dont change 48khz to 44.1khz in rendering. after rendering convert your audio to u r desired need with an external editor like sound forge or adobe audition.
Smells like trolling spirit...
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:51 PM   #28
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Smells like trolling spirit...
A WHAT??????
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Old 09-03-2014, 07:29 PM   #29
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You might want to check out Ian Shepherd and his site. He has tons of great advice at his site. He is a real pro and very approachable...
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Old 09-04-2014, 10:51 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by headcase915 View Post
ive been using reaper for a good 3 years now and never encountered this problem untill I upgraded my computer from a 2000 win xp to a 2013 win 7 the daw works and Im able to pack on the plugin without freezing or latency BUT when i master my tracks sound kick fucking ass on my monitors but when i render and toss them on my ipod and play them back in my truck all of a sudden my guitars sound 4 db lower and the sound waves up and down volume wise like someone is turning up and down the volume internally... can anyone help me!

My mastering chain:
1. Spectral analyzer
2. ReaQ (Parametric EQ - High Pass Filter)
3. FerricTDS (Tape Emulation)
4. ReaQ (Parametric EQ - High Shelving Filter)
5. Waves Maxx Bass (Bass Enhancer)
6. DestinymkII (Compressor)
7. Waves Stereo imager (Stereo Widener)
8. CS112m (final EQ, high pass)
9. ReaXComp (Multiband Compressor)
10. JS (Soft Clipper)
11. Loud Max (Brickwall Limiter)

what the hell am i doing wrong? and why is my master sounding amateur compared to masters done previously on my old computer?
You should be able to do the job with ReaEQ, ReaComp and Loud Max. Keep it simple. If it's still not satisfactory, remix it. Or perhaps employ an experienced mastering engineer.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:21 PM   #31
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You should be able to do the job with ReaEQ, ReaComp and Loud Max. Keep it simple. If it's still not satisfactory, remix it. Or perhaps employ an experienced mastering engineer.
believe me sometimes thats all you need but other times wou may need just a bit more... remember you can cook with only salt and pepper but sometimes adding garlic and other spices can take your dish from good to great.. give it a try in subtle small doses...
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Old 09-05-2014, 12:44 PM   #32
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believe me sometimes thats all you need but other times wou may need just a bit more... remember you can cook with only salt and pepper but sometimes adding garlic and other spices can take your dish from good to great.. give it a try in subtle small doses...
If you have a great mix, you can get by with a few simple tools to create a listenable master. Have you tried it? Try using the bare minimum. When applying EQ, get it where you like it, then back off a couple db. When you get the compressor where you like it, back off the threshold. I often go with a simplified approach. Not always, but more often than not. Using some restraint with all your processing is a good starting point.
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