|
|
|
12-06-2015, 01:02 PM
|
#1
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 438
|
Side-Chaining Vocals To Master Fader Without Having To Create A Sub Mix Bus?
There's a nice trick out there to glue your mix together a bit more, where you compress the entire mix according to the lead vocals track (i.e side chanining the vocals to the bus compressor).
The only problem is that it requires to create a second "master fader" since you cant use side chain compression on the actual master fader becuase you cant send channels 3-4 to it.
Is there an easier way to do it? Am I missing something?
Thanks!
|
|
|
12-06-2015, 02:06 PM
|
#2
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
|
Edit... need to think about this..
|
|
|
12-06-2015, 02:28 PM
|
#3
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner
Edit... need to think about this..
|
So you want everything to duck according to the lead vocal dynamic? I wouldn't recommend this at all. Maybe a few instruments could duck maybe 1 dB or so - guitar buss for instance - to give a bit more space to the vocal but you really don't want audible ducking of the whole song - that sounds horrendous. I can't think of any 'easy' way to do it - feeding a buss into the sidechain input of a comp the usual way is all I can think of.
|
|
|
12-07-2015, 02:57 PM
|
#4
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 438
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner
So you want everything to duck according to the lead vocal dynamic? I wouldn't recommend this at all. Maybe a few instruments could duck maybe 1 dB or so - guitar buss for instance - to give a bit more space to the vocal but you really don't want audible ducking of the whole song - that sounds horrendous. I can't think of any 'easy' way to do it - feeding a buss into the sidechain input of a comp the usual way is all I can think of.
|
Its actually a very nice trick that glues the mix together, it makes the vocals blend with the rest of the tracks while still sitting on top of everything, and it also balances out the instrumental parts and the vocal parts.
The key is to make is subtle, 1-2db of gain reduction with slow attack and release.
If you have an analog style compressor it works even better.
Try it out, got nothing to lose
|
|
|
12-07-2015, 04:02 PM
|
#5
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
Its actually a very nice trick that glues the mix together, it makes the vocals blend with the rest of the tracks while still sitting on top of everything, and it also balances out the instrumental parts and the vocal parts.
The key is to make is subtle, 1-2db of gain reduction with slow attack and release.
If you have an analog style compressor it works even better.
Try it out, got nothing to lose
|
I have tried it - many times in the past - just sounds awful to me. That's a lot of gain reduction for the whole track! It's pretty pointless ducking the drums and bass for the sake of a vocal imo - unless you're going for some kind of hyper compressed radio effect.
|
|
|
12-07-2015, 05:05 PM
|
#6
|
Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,201
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
There's a nice trick out there to glue your mix together a bit more, where you compress the entire mix according to the lead vocals track (i.e side chanining the vocals to the bus compressor).
The only problem is that it requires to create a second "master fader" since you cant use side chain compression on the actual master fader becuase you cant send channels 3-4 to it.
Is there an easier way to do it? Am I missing something?
Thanks!
|
Could you put all other tracks in one top level folder, insert ReaComp and sidechain to that?
|
|
|
12-07-2015, 05:48 PM
|
#7
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,594
|
examples of this?
I've sidechain compressed guitars and reverbs with the vocal before, that's about it.
|
|
|
12-07-2015, 06:03 PM
|
#8
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 509
|
Use limiting/compression instead
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner
So you want everything to duck according to the lead vocal dynamic? I wouldn't recommend this at all. Maybe a few instruments could duck maybe 1 dB or so - guitar buss for instance - to give a bit more space to the vocal but you really don't want audible ducking of the whole song - that sounds horrendous. I can't think of any 'easy' way to do it - feeding a buss into the sidechain input of a comp the usual way is all I can think of.
|
I agree with BladeRunner. This is not a sophisticated way to mix.
The human ear/auditory brain functioning hears simultaneous sounds. Our ears/brains aren't "fooled" when the sounds are trading foreground/background places. In other words, when the sounds are ducked, it isn't subtle enough.
Luckily there's a tool to handle this in the mix. It's called a limiter. Careful and preplanned use of a limiter with enough headroom will allow you to have all your instruments going without clipping. And you won't have to have that arbitrary and artificial and annoying sound of anything ducking.
Mix so that you aren't into the red of the master LED and give yourself at least 6 dB of headroom. If your tracks are too loud, select all of them and then drag down a fader; they will all go down the same amount. Then deselect all the tracks so you can mix as normally again.
The other advantage of this is that you can put an EQ before the master limiter and it can be used to enhance the cohesion and clarity of the mix.
For limiter settings, you want an attack as low as possible to prevent any overs. And then you also want a release about 16 milliseconds long so that it recovers quickly. That way only the peaks that would otherwise clip will be limited. Everything else is left unaffected.
As I said before, human hearing is designed to be able to hear simultaneous sounds. And waveforms mix naturally. It's called "superposition", a term somewhat similar to "superimposed". It's best to realise this so you aren't fighting the physics of waveforms with pumping and unnatural breathing sounds that would otherwise be constant.
You don't need to punch holes in the continuity of sounds to get everything through. Just plan ahead and use a limiter. If you use compression or limiting on the individual tracks, it will work even better and as a result, you'll be able to get your mix louder. You don't have to make things sound unnatural just to get high levels.
Sidechaining is not the answer.
Good luck.
|
|
|
12-07-2015, 06:09 PM
|
#9
|
Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,201
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nystagmus
I agree with BladeRunner. This is not a sophisticated way to mix.
|
Personally I wouldn't do this either, but that's the OP's choice if (s)he wishes to do that for some reason.
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 12:43 AM
|
#10
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indonesia Raya
Posts: 684
|
I personally don't think sidechaining master fader would be a good idea...but
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
The only problem is that it requires to create a second "master fader" since you cant use side chain compression on the actual master fader becuase you cant send channels 3-4 to it.
Thanks!
|
Actually you can.
Here's how
- Set your master track to 4-ch. MASTER track, routing, track channels = 4.
- Add ReaComp
- Create a dummy track for routing to MASTER 3-4.
- Set the dummy channel parent to 3-4 (as key to ReaComp aux)
- Send your vocal track to the dummy track.
- voila
Vocal as sidechaining key to compress entire mix including the vocal itself? that's sidechainception compression
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 12:54 AM
|
#11
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
|
A very simple way to do this is in fact using a bus-compressor on the masterbus. When the vocal gets loud it ducks the other tracks.
Maybe not the same, but worth thinking over.
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 10:51 AM
|
#12
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 438
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner
I have tried it - many times in the past - just sounds awful to me. That's a lot of gain reduction for the whole track! It's pretty pointless ducking the drums and bass for the sake of a vocal imo - unless you're going for some kind of hyper compressed radio effect.
|
You got it all wrong mate, you're not ducking the drums and bass, you're not ducking anything, you're turning the whole mix down just a touch. Making it more consistent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas
Could you put all other tracks in one top level folder, insert ReaComp and sidechain to that?
|
Yeah I can, but I'm looking for a less messy way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nystagmus
I agree with BladeRunner. This is not a sophisticated way to mix.
The human ear/auditory brain functioning hears simultaneous sounds. Our ears/brains aren't "fooled" when the sounds are trading foreground/background places. In other words, when the sounds are ducked, it isn't subtle enough.
Luckily there's a tool to handle this in the mix. It's called a limiter. Careful and preplanned use of a limiter with enough headroom will allow you to have all your instruments going without clipping. And you won't have to have that arbitrary and artificial and annoying sound of anything ducking.
Mix so that you aren't into the red of the master LED and give yourself at least 6 dB of headroom. If your tracks are too loud, select all of them and then drag down a fader; they will all go down the same amount. Then deselect all the tracks so you can mix as normally again.
The other advantage of this is that you can put an EQ before the master limiter and it can be used to enhance the cohesion and clarity of the mix.
For limiter settings, you want an attack as low as possible to prevent any overs. And then you also want a release about 16 milliseconds long so that it recovers quickly. That way only the peaks that would otherwise clip will be limited. Everything else is left unaffected.
As I said before, human hearing is designed to be able to hear simultaneous sounds. And waveforms mix naturally. It's called "superposition", a term somewhat similar to "superimposed". It's best to realise this so you aren't fighting the physics of waveforms with pumping and unnatural breathing sounds that would otherwise be constant.
You don't need to punch holes in the continuity of sounds to get everything through. Just plan ahead and use a limiter. If you use compression or limiting on the individual tracks, it will work even better and as a result, you'll be able to get your mix louder. You don't have to make things sound unnatural just to get high levels.
Sidechaining is not the answer.
Good luck.
|
Ugh... I feel kinda sorry for all this effort?
You clearly didn't understand what I'm doing... it has nothing to do with a limiter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrengmusic
I personally don't think sidechaining master fader would be a good idea...but
Actually you can.
Here's how
- Set your master track to 4-ch. MASTER track, routing, track channels = 4.
- Add ReaComp
- Create a dummy track for routing to MASTER 3-4.
- Set the dummy channel parent to 3-4 (as key to ReaComp aux)
- Send your vocal track to the dummy track.
- voila
Vocal as sidechaining key to compress entire mix including the vocal itself? that's sidechainception compression
|
Thanks!!
I didn't know you can set the master fader to 4 channels.
I'll try it out and see if it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Sun
A very simple way to do this is in fact using a bus-compressor on the masterbus. When the vocal gets loud it ducks the other tracks.
Maybe not the same, but worth thinking over.
|
Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't have the side chaining this way?
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 10:54 AM
|
#13
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
You got it all wrong mate, you're not ducking the drums and bass, you're not ducking anything, you're turning the whole mix down just a touch. Making it more consistent.
|
External key side-chain compression is ducking.
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 10:55 AM
|
#14
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Norway
Posts: 7,318
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
Correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't have the side chaining this way?
|
No, but it ducks the other tracks.
__________________
Reaper x64, win 11
Composer, text-writer, producer
Bandcamp
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 11:02 AM
|
#15
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,632
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
There's a nice trick out there to glue your mix together a bit more, where you compress the entire mix according to the lead vocals track (i.e side chanining the vocals to the bus compressor).
The only problem is that it requires to create a second "master fader" since you cant use side chain compression on the actual master fader becuase you cant send channels 3-4 to it.
Is there an easier way to do it? Am I missing something?
Thanks!
|
The restriction on the default master bus is the inability to send FROM it. You can send TO it as you please on any number of track channels.
As for the critique of the "radio mix" style of 'all about the vocals' with crushed and pumping backing tracks... well, when you want that, this is one way to do it!
For something specialized like this, I'd probably put up a subgroup track instead of using the master track but that's just workflow preference.
I'd also fuss around and try to find a way to make the backing instrumental mix work for the style instead of strapping a compressor across the entire backing arrangement and squishing it but YMMV (and if it sounds right, it is right and all that).
Last edited by serr; 12-08-2015 at 12:49 PM.
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 11:12 AM
|
#16
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
You got it all wrong mate, you're not ducking the drums and bass, you're not ducking anything, you're turning the whole mix down just a touch. Making it more consistent.
|
I'm not quoting this to be argumentative - just so that misinformation isn't left dangling out there. This is wrong - 'you're turning the whole mix down just a touch' - that IS ducking. You're ducking the whole mix when the vocal can be heard. This is the technique used for radio broadcasting when the DJ is speaking - sidechain the DJ's voice into a compressor on the music so that it ducks the music when the DJ speaks - for this purpose it's fine but for music itself I just think this is a very extreme thing to do. Just my opinion - you're free to experiment however you like and a few people in the thread have detailed ways to achieve this.
I actually know someone who always does this to their vocal and it sounds really horrible - like your ear canal's being squeezed every time you hear the vocal (which is, of course, what a compressor is mimicing )
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 12:45 PM
|
#17
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 5,074
|
Apart from aesthetic reasons I don't think you want the master ducked. Why? As soon as the vocals hit the threshold, they will get attenuated as well, since they're also part of the master channel, no?
So: seperate submix.
__________________
Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
"If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 12:50 PM
|
#18
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 438
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner
I'm not quoting this to be argumentative - just so that misinformation isn't left dangling out there. This is wrong - 'you're turning the whole mix down just a touch' - that IS ducking. You're ducking the whole mix when the vocal can be heard. This is the technique used for radio broadcasting when the DJ is speaking - sidechain the DJ's voice into a compressor on the music so that it ducks the music when the DJ speaks - for this purpose it's fine but for music itself I just think this is a very extreme thing to do. Just my opinion - you're free to experiment however you like and a few people in the thread have detailed ways to achieve this.
I actually know someone who always does this to their vocal and it sounds really horrible - like your ear canal's being squeezed every time you hear the vocal (which is, of course, what a compressor is mimicing )
|
You're forgetting that everything gets turned down, the whole mix, including the vocals.
I can see why you're (and many others) thinking of the DJ example when I say vocals side chaining, however this example is pretty much opposite of what I'm doing.
The DJ style side chain turns down the music without the vocals, to let the vocals be heard loudly.
My side chain compression turns down everything, including the vocals, which actually resulting in turning up the instrumental sections to the same level of the sections with vocals. (And I'm talking about sections, not seconds between words/phrases).
Nothing is extreme here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serr
The restriction on the default master bus is the inability to send FROM it. You can send TO it as you please on any number of track channels.
As for the critique of the "radio mix" style of 'all about the vocals' with crushed and pumping backing tracks... well, when you want that, this is one way to do it!
For something specialized like this, I'd probably put up a subgroup track instead of using the master track but that's just workflow preference.
I'd also fuss around and try to find a way to make the backing instrumental mix work for the style instead of strapping a compressor across the entire backing arrangement and squishing it buy YMMV (and if it sounds right, it is right and all that).
|
Same again, its actually the opposite of "all about the vocals" because in essence this technique turns up the instrumental sections of the song.
It has absolutely nothing to do with getting a pumping or crushed sounding backing track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
External key side-chain compression is ducking.
|
Its not ducking when the whole mix (including the vocals) is turned down.
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 12:54 PM
|
#19
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
You're forgetting that everything gets turned down, the whole mix, including the vocals.
I can see why you're (and many others) thinking of the DJ example when I say vocals side chaining, however this example is pretty much opposite of what I'm doing.
The DJ style side chain turns down the music without the vocals, to let the vocals be heard loudly.
My side chain compression turns down everything, including the vocals, which actually resulting in turning up the instrumental sections to the same level of the sections with vocals. (And I'm talking about sections, not seconds between words/phrases).
Nothing is extreme here.
Same again, its actually the opposite of "all about the vocals" because in essence this technique turns up the instrumental sections of the song.
It has absolutely nothing to do with getting a pumping or crushed sounding backing track.
Its not ducking when the whole mix (including the vocals) is turned down.
|
I'm a bit confused but also intrigued! Can you provide an example - a before and after to demonstrate what you mean?
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 01:12 PM
|
#20
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
|
I'm confused how something can get louder when it's attenuated...
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 01:52 PM
|
#21
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 438
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner
I'm a bit confused but also intrigued! Can you provide an example - a before and after to demonstrate what you mean?
|
Here's where I found this trick/technique:
https://youtu.be/ey2v8ZEjjcY?t=3m45s
I don't use it 100% like he did in this video (he also dialed in too much make-up gain so everything got louder), but I think you can get the overall idea from this video.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
I'm confused how something can get louder when it's attenuated...
|
The sections that include vocals get attenuated, which makes the instrumental sections louder (if you use make-up gain)
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 01:54 PM
|
#22
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 749
|
Well, you are compressing the Vocals a second time, which is fine for me.
If you fiddle with the make-up gain it may have the effect of "louder is better".
Vinod
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 02:02 PM
|
#23
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 438
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrengmusic
I personally don't think sidechaining master fader would be a good idea...but
Actually you can.
Here's how
- Set your master track to 4-ch. MASTER track, routing, track channels = 4.
- Add ReaComp
- Create a dummy track for routing to MASTER 3-4.
- Set the dummy channel parent to 3-4 (as key to ReaComp aux)
- Send your vocal track to the dummy track.
- voila
Vocal as sidechaining key to compress entire mix including the vocal itself? that's sidechainception compression
|
Thank you so much!
Tried it now and it works like a charm!
You saved me a lot of hassle my friend
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 04:06 PM
|
#24
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
Here's where I found this trick/technique:
https://youtu.be/ey2v8ZEjjcY?t=3m45s
I don't use it 100% like he did in this video (he also dialed in too much make-up gain so everything got louder), but I think you can get the overall idea from this video.
The sections that include vocals get attenuated, which makes the instrumental sections louder (if you use make-up gain)
|
He's doing exactly what I described - triggering gain reduction of the music from the vocal - the vocal's not being gain reduced. He also hasn't volume matched the result - so, once again, we just see another video where people are simply responding to the result which is louder = better. If he had matched the output volume with the comps make up gain all you would here is the music get slightly quieter when you hear the vocal - where it's being ducked - which doesn't sound nice imo. You can view this technique as 'turning up' the parts in between the vocal of course - even though it isn't really (rather than reducing the gain of the music when the vocal is heard). I've heard so many people use that song from Mike Senior's forum btw - I've had a go at mixing it myself too
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 04:27 PM
|
#25
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner
He's doing exactly what I described - triggering gain reduction of the music from the vocal - the vocal's not being gain reduced. He also hasn't volume matched the result - so, once again, we just see another video where people are simply responding to the result which is louder = better. If he had matched the output volume with the comps make up gain all you would here is the music get slightly quieter when you hear the vocal - where it's being ducked - which doesn't sound nice imo. You can view this technique as 'turning up' the parts in between the vocal of course - even though it isn't really (rather than reducing the gain of the music when the vocal is heard). I've heard so many people use that song from Mike Senior's forum btw - I've had a go at mixing it myself too
|
No, he is compressing the vocal too. The compressor is on his master stereo output, and the side-chain is keyed from a pre-fader send from the vocal.
I thought it sounded pretty horrible, and much preferred it with just the Waves API 2500 on the stereo output.
I've seen a video of this guy before, and was similarly unimpressed. He talks about a "real world mix example", like this is something a client is paying him to do it, but this is just from Mike Senior's site?
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 04:32 PM
|
#26
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
No, he is compressing the vocal too. The compressor is on his master stereo output, and the side-chain is keyed from a pre-fader send from the vocal.
I thought it sounded pretty horrible, and much preferred it with just the Waves API 2500 on the stereo output.
I've seen a video of this guy before, and was similarly unimpressed. He talks about a "real world mix example", like this is something a client is paying him to do it, but this is just from Mike Senior's site?
|
Hmm.. Ah I see.. so the vocal is compressing the whole mix - music + vocal (itself)? It's something that would never have occurred to me in a million years! I guess I should try it before dismissing it..
That song is a multitrack available from Mike's forum - yes. It's possible he was the engineer who originally mixed it though?
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 04:45 PM
|
#27
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner
Hmm.. Ah I see.. so the vocal is compressing the whole mix - music + vocal (itself)? It's something that would never have occurred to me in a million years! I guess I should try it before dismissing it..
|
I guess. I didn't like the effect on that video. Was it just me, or did it do something funky to the stereo image? I noticed that Waves API had only 50% stereo link, so maybe the vox-keyed compressor was exaggerating that?
He said it is a technique that was used in "old school" times, but has fallen out of favour. It would be nice if he'd given a bit more detail about when and where it was used.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bladerunner
That song is a multitrack available from Mike's forum - yes. It's possible he was the engineer who originally mixed it though?
|
It's possible, I guess...
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 05:00 PM
|
#28
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
|
Looks like one of those things where I'd never follow the tutorial exactly but rather remember the idea then massage it into my own thing depending on the situation. I however, also see it as a 'trick' and I don't typically care for tricks because people associate them far to broadly. Meaning, it wouldn't go in my list of 'always do this'.
Also, in some of his examples, it appears it may be nothing more than controlled pumping matched with the tempo or other timed elements.
2 cents.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 06:43 PM
|
#29
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 37
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
Thank you so much!
Tried it now and it works like a charm!
You saved me a lot of hassle my friend
|
Interesting. Tested the routing with some pink noise and works fine. Really Interested to try this snake oil on a mix. Good Post.
|
|
|
12-08-2015, 06:46 PM
|
#30
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
|
Performance wise (better multiprocessing) it might be better to do this on a regular track tho.
|
|
|
12-09-2015, 05:43 AM
|
#31
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Indonesia Raya
Posts: 684
|
Happy mixing!
|
|
|
12-09-2015, 06:15 AM
|
#32
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,220
|
If you're going to do this I suggest at least band limiting the effect to the vocal range, so you're not pumping the bass frequencies.
Even further, pick up a copy of TrackSpacer and use that instead:
http://www.wavesfactory.com/trackspacer.php
Far less noticeable than wideband ducking.
I use this to push guitars and keys down a bit when vocals are soft. It's a complex setup I don't want to get into and involves parameter modulation. But it's 8am. sorry.
|
|
|
12-09-2015, 07:13 AM
|
#33
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 438
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler
If you're going to do this I suggest at least band limiting the effect to the vocal range, so you're not pumping the bass frequencies.
Even further, pick up a copy of TrackSpacer and use that instead:
http://www.wavesfactory.com/trackspacer.php
Far less noticeable than wideband ducking.
I use this to push guitars and keys down a bit when vocals are soft. It's a complex setup I don't want to get into and involves parameter modulation. But it's 8am. sorry.
|
Have you read the whole thread?
It doesn't create a pumping effect and it does bring down only some on the tracks.
|
|
|
12-09-2015, 08:02 AM
|
#34
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdy
Have you read the whole thread?
It doesn't create a pumping effect and it does bring down only some on the tracks.
|
Just an academic aside, in the video referenced, some examples sort of are controlled pumping, that's why he used the bass, kick and even click track as the trigger in some examples along with the paraphrased statement... "I don't have to do the timing math on the release time when I do it this way". I don't think the fact that the track responsible for triggering also gets compressed changes that academic point for lack of a better term.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
Last edited by karbomusic; 12-09-2015 at 08:20 AM.
|
|
|
12-09-2015, 08:47 AM
|
#35
|
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 438
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic
Just an academic aside, in the video referenced, some examples sort of are controlled pumping, that's why he used the bass, kick and even click track as the trigger in some examples along with the paraphrased statement... "I don't have to do the timing math on the release time when I do it this way". I don't think the fact that the track responsible for triggering also gets compressed changes that academic point for lack of a better term.
|
I think that was a bit to complicatEd for me, lol
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:25 PM.
|