Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Music/Collaboration Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-01-2021, 07:11 AM   #1
darjama
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: the Bay
Posts: 701
Default reaMIXed: The Reaper Mixing Contest - December 2021 - So Hi. So Lo.

REAPER CONTEST - December 2021
(ONLY REAPER PLUGINS ALLOWED)



OFFICIAL WEBSITE: reaMIXed.com


MIXING: 1-16 December
VOTING: 20-26 December
RESULTS: 28 December
FEEDBACK: 29-31 December



__________________________________________________


This month's track, chosen by last month's winner LDdrums20, is "So Hi. So Lo." by Balkun Brothers. Courtesy of the Telefunken Labs series, the song mixes rock, thrash, doom and punk all into one fast-paced adrenaline covered rampage.

Please remember:

-NO GLUING OF FILES
-ONLY NATIVE REAPER FX -or- non-Native JSFX files that you include with your submission.

Also, I'd recommend taking advantage of the new normalization settings in the reaper rendering dialog to meet the LUFS and dbFS requirements. My suggested workflow would be:

1. Normalize to -14 LUFS.
2. If your mix peaks at or under -1 dbFS, you're done!
3. If your mix peaks over -1 dbFS, rerender it normalizing to -1 dbFS.

MixCheck (https://reamixed.com/mixcheck/) is still beta, it can help you by analyzing your .rpp files before you upload to:
- Make sure your they don't contain disqualifying audio files
- Make sure your they don't contain disqualifying VST/AU plugins
- See what non-native JSFX files you need to include in your zip file
- See what non-native impulse files you need to include in your zip file

NOTE that Mix Check DOES NOT upload your mix, only checks your project file on your local machine.

Once Mix Check has been tested I may not require you to send in the mixed flacs, just the project files, jsfx and impulses. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

You can download the multitrack from the website or clicking on this link.

Again, no prize this month, aside from the customary track-picking privileges for the next month's contest.

Happy mixing!
-Daryl

__________________________________________________
_________________________________


IMPORTANT
darjama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2021, 10:45 PM   #2
ColinJ
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 40
Default

This is an interesting one. It's live, the levels are all over the place and there's an insane amount of leakage.

I guess the question is how 'clean' do you want to make it?
ColinJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2021, 03:09 PM   #3
LCM!
Human being with feelings
 
LCM!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: La Raya
Posts: 147
Default

Let's make the leakage our friend.
LCM! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 05:01 AM   #4
TomekSmilok
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 52
Default

Leakage is good for your skin.


My main concern is that sloppy octaver bass : sounds very nice on heavy parts, but sounds more like a low end rumble on the rest of the song.
TomekSmilok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 03:38 PM   #5
westie07
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 98
Default

For better or worse my mix is in. I think I could have spent another month on this one and still not be happy with it.

It was certainly a "live" mix, and dealing with that drum spill was a handful, but I guess that's what mixing is all about. Great learning experience.

But it was a great fun song and one of the few that I wasn't tired of listening to at the end.

Thanks again Daryl, for all your hard work.

rob
westie07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2021, 06:53 PM   #6
ColinJ
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by westie07 View Post
For better or worse my mix is in. I think I could have spent another month on this one and still not be happy with it.

It was certainly a "live" mix, and dealing with that drum spill was a handful, but I guess that's what mixing is all about. Great learning experience.

But it was a great fun song and one of the few that I wasn't tired of listening to at the end.

Thanks again Daryl, for all your hard work.

rob
Agreed. The toms were brutal to bring out. I know they're the real weakness in my mix.

I ended up gating the kick and snare, but tried not to kill the live vibe.
ColinJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 12:20 AM   #7
Jopame
Human being with feelings
 
Jopame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Germany
Posts: 74
Default Bleed on vocal mic

Well, I think the open vocal mic with tons of bleed is one of the main obstacles in getting a clean mix. On the other hand this song sounds very grungy, so I decided to take the bleed throughout the complete song. I'm curious what you think about.
__________________
Servus, Jopame
Jopame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 11:50 AM   #8
TomekSmilok
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 52
Default

Damn I missed the deadline ... was sure it will be 16th of december end of day

Well i'm looking forward to listen all the mixes, that was fun challenge !
TomekSmilok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 04:39 PM   #9
Djmajik
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 77
Default

I think i got it in the nick of time, was thinking it ended tonight but did it very late yesterday.
Djmajik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 04:46 PM   #10
jm67
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 112
Default

As a mixing ignoramus, I'm viewing this as a good learning opportunity.
Agree that the vocal mic bleed was tough. In the end I just used that as part of the snare/cymbal mix. The other hard thing was the chorused guitar solo tone - very muddy & noisy.
jm67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2021, 03:09 PM   #11
darjama
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: the Bay
Posts: 701
Default

Voting is live, let me know if you have any problems:

https://reamixed.com/vote/
darjama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2021, 06:24 AM   #12
PVinKC
Human being with feelings
 
PVinKC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
Posts: 190
Default

Just voted. It was tough...there were a lot of little things that were grating on my nerves and only a couple mixes actually shined.

My biggest pet peeve however, the guys who chose to keep the talking at the beginning, and failed to automate the vocal effects! If I were to do that at a live gig, I'd be fired or at least warned. Out of all the mixes that kept the vocal only 1 somewhat fixed that situation.

Almost all mixes had something that I liked however. A few that I'll definitely be checking the project files for tips!

Good luck to everyone!
__________________
Guitarist, Vocalist, Producer, Mixing/Recording/Mastering Engineer. Creator of Tutorials.
www.facebook.com/soundadvicekc
PVinKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-25-2021, 03:18 AM   #13
Jopame
Human being with feelings
 
Jopame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Germany
Posts: 74
Default

Voting just finished. I hope my critic was not too hard. But aren't we are all here for learning?
The 14 different mixes show a great variety of personal bias. Loud snare vs. loud vocals, aggresive guitars vs. soft guitars and so on. But this all is a matter of taste.
What I don't understand: most mixes lack of a proper fade-in and a proper fade-out. Isn't this one of the very basic things to do for mix? And this is not a matter of taste, this is - in my opinion - just basic handcraft. At least I don't want to hear a noisy pumping compresssor when the guitar signal is gone. So, whenever there is no signal from an instrument (but the mic still receives background noise) this part has to be cut off.
The voting was hard for me, because the mixes sound very different, judging personal taste is uhmm, difficult. Curious who will make it this time.

Good luck to everyone!
__________________
Servus, Jopame
Jopame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2021, 09:08 AM   #14
darjama
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: the Bay
Posts: 701
Default

It was a squeaker this month, congrats to RBVA! I'll be contacting you shortly about picking next month's song.



See comments and download files at https://reamixed.com/results/
darjama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2021, 03:30 PM   #15
westie07
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 98
Default

Hey guys, just want to thank all those who spent time to listen to my mix. It wouldn't have been easy. lol.

I appreciate the time and the feedback. Honest, constructive criticism, although not always pleasant, is so helpful. All the comments were 100% correct so I need to improve in those areas.

Thanks again guys,
rob
westie07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 05:24 AM   #16
PVinKC
Human being with feelings
 
PVinKC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
Posts: 190
Default

Jopame I feel the need to clarify something that you pointed out in your feedback. I was mix 10. You questioned why I didn't do a "proper" (as you said it) fade in and fade out. Also said that the fade in was too fast or too quick.

There is NO fade in or fade out on my mix for a very simple reason. The song builds from the drums, then the guitar and so the song naturally fades in. As for the fade out. That is not needed as the song has a punch and drum fill at the end. No song ever that ends that way gets a fade out bro. I wanted the end punch and it wouldn't do that with a fade out.

I don't disagree with any of your other comments or observations however.
__________________
Guitarist, Vocalist, Producer, Mixing/Recording/Mastering Engineer. Creator of Tutorials.
www.facebook.com/soundadvicekc
PVinKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 08:40 AM   #17
LCM!
Human being with feelings
 
LCM!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: La Raya
Posts: 147
Default

Congrats to RBVA. Not a surprisse though; yours was my first pick.
Digging in your project with some interesting findings.
LCM! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 12:36 PM   #18
Jopame
Human being with feelings
 
Jopame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Germany
Posts: 74
Default fade-out definition

Quote:
Originally Posted by PVinKC View Post
Jopame I feel the need to clarify something that you pointed out in your feedback. I was mix 10. You questioned why I didn't do a "proper" (as you said it) fade in and fade out. Also said that the fade in was too fast or too quick.

There is NO fade in or fade out on my mix for a very simple reason. The song builds from the drums, then the guitar and so the song naturally fades in. As for the fade out. That is not needed as the song has a punch and drum fill at the end. No song ever that ends that way gets a fade out bro. I wanted the end punch and it wouldn't do that with a fade out.

I don't disagree with any of your other comments or observations however.

Hi Paulie, thank you for your remarks, I think it is important to explain a bit better what I mean.
When I say "fade-in" I mean that piece of noise which comes before the first hit on the drums. I don't mean any fading on any part when instruments are playing. This particular song starts with a drum hit and I as a mix engineering want to have the levels fully open on that very first hit.

Fade-in: it is the part before the first drum hit is hearable, before music starts. Some of the 14 guys have left the spoken words in. That's okay, that's the freedom (or artistic decision) of the mix engineer. These words come together with noise and hum, but that's okay. But if these words have been left out, the music starts with music. The music does not start with humming and white noise from the open preamps and compressors. I don't want to hear that. Music starts with music.

Fade-out: it is the part after the last drum hit (together with the electric guitar). Some of the 14 guys have done - nothing in this regard. So the compressors with auto makeup gain will boost more and more while the music is dying. And this leads to humming and amplified noise. That sounds horrible, at least for my ears and I think it is a basic duty of a mix engineer to get rid off such noise.

In that sense, fade-in and fade-out is just a cleaning process. The mix engineer has to take care of such issues. And it just has to be done. And yes, that is my opinion.

When I have a deeper look (can I say so when I mean to hear precisely??) on mix 10, then I can hear about 1 second of noise before the first drum hit. I would expect, that the levels go up just a fraction before that first drum hit, but not a second.
At the end the softly dying cymbals and electric guitar are just cut off at some point. Exactly this hard cut-off is what I find should be softly faded out. That is what I meant with proper fade-out.

I hope this helps for a better understanding of my point. I don't wanted to be rude.
Cheers and Hello from South Germany.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg dying out.jpg (50.5 KB, 66 views)
__________________
Servus, Jopame
Jopame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 12:57 PM   #19
Jopame
Human being with feelings
 
Jopame's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Germany
Posts: 74
Default My favorite way of comparing files

Hi together,
I have no idea, what your preferred way is in comparing the different mixes. What's holding me back of using the web-interface (https://reamixed.com/vote) is that it sometimes reacts very slowly.

My favorite way of comparing:
  • throwing all flac's (thanks to Daryl for sharing all flacs) into Reaper, each file on his own track.
  • Muting all tracks.
  • Soloing with pressed "Alt-Gr" key (on a PC) while clicking with the mouse the solo button of the track I want to hear. The Alt-Gr results in un-soloing the current track and soloing the track at which the solo button is presssed. So, choosing the next track for comparison is really just one click away. I like that.
In Reaper with have all means of defining our own loops.
At least for me this is much more handy than using the web-interface.

Hi from South Germany
Jopame
__________________
Servus, Jopame
Jopame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 07:23 PM   #20
rbva
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LCM! View Post
Congrats to RBVA. Not a surprisse though; yours was my first pick.
Digging in your project with some interesting findings.
Thanks, this one was a challenge. Between the massive bleed and the requirements of the contest, it definitely forced me out of my usual workflow.
rbva is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2021, 09:19 PM   #21
Dex
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopame View Post
Hi together,
I have no idea, what your preferred way is in comparing the different mixes. What's holding me back of using the web-interface (https://reamixed.com/vote) is that it sometimes reacts very slowly.

My favorite way of comparing:
  • throwing all flac's (thanks to Daryl for sharing all flacs) into Reaper, each file on his own track.
  • Muting all tracks.
  • Soloing with pressed "Alt-Gr" key (on a PC) while clicking with the mouse the solo button of the track I want to hear. The Alt-Gr results in un-soloing the current track and soloing the track at which the solo button is presssed. So, choosing the next track for comparison is really just one click away. I like that.
In Reaper with have all means of defining our own loops.
At least for me this is much more handy than using the web-interface.

Hi from South Germany
Jopame
I do pretty much the same thing, but I also make sure to reset my ears every now and then by listening to some reference mixes, because it's too easy to let my ears get used to the sound of one mix, even if it's not a good mix, and then automatically dislike the next mix just because it sounded different from the previous mix!
Dex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2021, 05:33 AM   #22
rayrayne
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopame View Post
Hi Paulie, thank you for your remarks, I think it is important to explain a bit better what I mean.
Thanks for the clarification. This one helps me a lot. Because you actually commented exactly that I didn't do the fade out/in, but I did a fade out. But I did not clean it. Thx.

Cheers from bit more than south Germany ;-)
rayrayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2021, 05:39 AM   #23
rayrayne
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 18
Default

Just a wee improvement-suggestion. Instead of numbers in the results-tab, would it be possible to show the contenders/reviewers name? So it would be easier to find your mix, and also you could DM a reviewer in this forum for clarifications or details.

Don't know, if this is just a newbie-request or if it is possible due to privacy reasons.
rayrayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2021, 06:23 AM   #24
PVinKC
Human being with feelings
 
PVinKC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
Posts: 190
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jopame View Post
...I hope this helps for a better understanding of my point. I don't wanted to be rude.
Cheers and Hello from South Germany.
Yes this helps a lot. I didn't understand at all previously. But this gives me something to think about and improve upon. Much appreciated Sir!!!
__________________
Guitarist, Vocalist, Producer, Mixing/Recording/Mastering Engineer. Creator of Tutorials.
www.facebook.com/soundadvicekc
PVinKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2021, 08:11 AM   #25
LCM!
Human being with feelings
 
LCM!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: La Raya
Posts: 147
Default

Some final thoughts on this month's contest.

Scores. As a curiosity, I have compared the stars I gave to each mix with its final rate (I don't want to be stingy when rating). In light of the data I think I'm on average (slightly biased in favour of my favourites).

Mix MY RATE FINAL RATE

1. 2,5/ 2,5
2. 1,5/ 2,28
3. 2/ 2,39
4. 1,5/ 1,65
5. 2,5/ 2,8
6. 2/ 1,83
7. MINE
8. 1,5/ 1,44
9. 1,5/ 2,1
10. 2,5/ 2,39
11. 3,5/ 3,39
12. 3/ 2,56
13. 3/ 2,78
14. 2/ 2,72

AVG. 2,23/ 2,37

(sorry, the chart sucks)

Bleed. I didn't take care too much. Just tried to align items to avoid phase issues. Maybe I'm wrong (please, correct me whoever has stronger arguments) but, given that the tracks had been recorded under ideal conditions (I mean, I'm sure Telefunken does its best when publishing these recordings), why not just let the sound of the different tracks enhance the colour and nuances of the whole? (with EQ in some cases, I have to accept)

Fade in and fade out. That's a point that makes great this place and worth staying here: thanks to Jopame to point out this issue. Something to learn. I did noticed the unpleasant sound at the end of the song but, honestly, I did`t regarding the kick off.

And now, let's keep digging through your projects.

PD: seemingly I'm not the only who can't hear the mixes in the web
LCM! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2021, 07:46 PM   #26
REDTone Studio
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 35
Default

I'm not sure putting the reviewer name next to the feedback is the best idea, though it would be nice to ask for more expanded thoughts on what a reviewer was hearing. We don't want to cause any bad blood in a very good group, at least what I've seen so far!

I was thinking it would be good to have an asterisk or star next to the reviewer number for how they placed. Say a star for the the reviewers who placed in the top 3 or 5. This way you know that comment was worth a bit more than the others.

No use chasing problems in your mix from a comment made by someone not with a great acoustically treated room or is maybe more a beginner than you. It is still nice to get as much feedback as possible though! Sometimes someone will submit a mix with no bass and then comment on every track that the bass was too loud, you can bet they aren't hearing the bass right in their room or headphones. Sometimes you can tie a comment to a mix and sometimes not.

Just a thought!

Either way a great contest being ran and I learn something new every month!!
REDTone Studio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2021, 03:27 PM   #27
rayrayne
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDTone Studio View Post
I'm not sure putting the reviewer name next to the feedback is the best idea, though it would be nice to ask for more expanded thoughts on what a reviewer was hearing. We don't want to cause any bad blood in a very good group, at least what I've seen so far!
Good point, haven't thought about that. If you wanna have more insights, you can ask in here for a DM, I think.
rayrayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.