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06-14-2020, 10:36 AM
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#1
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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VST forum needed without administrator beholden to its advertisers
KVRAudio and VI-Control are useless to me, because the moderation's bias in favor vendors is obvious. Whoever founds a forum inviting free and open discussion of VST's will get my patronage, and I've turned ad-blocker off. If someone is looking for extra income and likes plugins, I bet he will succeed by starting a forum to compete with KVRAudio.
Last edited by david91340; 06-14-2020 at 10:47 AM.
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06-14-2020, 10:48 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Southeastern MI, USA
Posts: 52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
If someone is looking for extra income and likes plugins, I bet he will succeed by starting a forum to compete with KVRAudio.
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You first.
__________________
You know the sharks are circling when a man starts bragging about his principles.
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06-14-2020, 10:51 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,595
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how would the forum make income without advertising?
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06-14-2020, 11:39 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,792
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Just try the vsts, who cares what others think.
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06-14-2020, 12:09 PM
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#5
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poinzy
You first.
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In high school I was Editor-in-Chief of the official school newspaper. When the school censored us unjustly, the entire staff, except the Juniors, resigned, and we started our own, privately owned newspaper subject to the First Amendment and only the First Amendment. I invested $800, and thousands more came from advertising and donations. Sam Donaldson, Brit Hume, and Donald Graham (then the publisher of the Washington Post) offered themselves as our advisors. When I graduated, I gave full ownership of the company to the Sophomores turning Juniors on our staff, and the paper continued publishing and turning a profit for seventeen years, outlasting the school administrators who had censored us.
Now I write and produce music, so I won't be the one to profit by starting an open and free VST forum.
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06-14-2020, 12:10 PM
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#6
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicSounds
how would the forum make income without advertising?
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I was imagining it would run advertisements for money, just without letting advertisers call shots. That worked my (our) newspaper.
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06-14-2020, 12:10 PM
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#7
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
Just try the vsts, who cares what others think.
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Interesting, but expensive.
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06-14-2020, 12:14 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Southeastern MI, USA
Posts: 52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
In high school I was Editor-in-Chief of the official school newspaper. When the school censored us unjustly, the entire staff, except the Juniors, resigned, and we started our own, privately owned newspaper subject to the First Amendment and only the First Amendment. I invested $800, and thousands more came from advertising and donations. Sam Donaldson, Brit Hume, and Donald Graham (then the publisher of the Washington Post) offered themselves as our advisors. When I graduated, I gave full ownership of the company to the Sophomores turning Juniors on our staff, and the paper continued publishing and turning a profit for seventeen years, outlasting the school administrators who had censored us.
Now I write and produce music, so I won't be the one to profit by starting an open and free VST forum.
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So, you're saying, basically, that you're capable of taking on the job. You just don't want to.
__________________
You know the sharks are circling when a man starts bragging about his principles.
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06-14-2020, 12:23 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 588
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This dude is larping as some sort of VST plugin MI6 agent
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06-14-2020, 12:26 PM
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#10
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poinzy
So, you're saying, basically, that you're capable of taking on the job. You just don't want to.
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I want to, but I want to compose and produce music even more.
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06-14-2020, 12:27 PM
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#11
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fakemaxwell
This dude is larping as some sort of VST plugin MI6 agent
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It left a paper trail.
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06-14-2020, 12:49 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
Interesting, but expensive.
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Lots of demos out there for free
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06-14-2020, 01:13 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 2,635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
Interesting, but expensive.
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"Expensive" for what? For trying every possible option out there? Just eliminate the ones that don't offer a trial version. Done.
There are plenty of other sites aside from KVR (which I frequent and never had an issue with their moderation). None are perfect. If there's an expensive compressor that didn't have a trial that you needed to know about, ask here and you'll get opinions. Or don't.
__________________
The reason rain dances work is because they don't stop dancing until it rains.
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06-14-2020, 01:19 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
patronage
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Patronage as in thousands of dollars for startup and operating costs: hosting, advertising, content creation, etc. etc. in order to really compete with the very popular and well established KVR site, or patronage as in you'll go there and wait for people to come and answer questions for you?
This right here is among other things essentially a VST forum. There are hundreds of VST threads and hundreds of people with opinions about VSTs. And we're as independent as it gets.
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06-14-2020, 01:29 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,843
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Most plugins have demos / trials don't they? In cases where they don't there are loads of sites on the internet where people give opinions about plugins (here, KVR, Music Radar, Sound on Sound, GearSlutz etc.)
Surely you can glean a general opinion by aggregating from multiple sources?
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06-14-2020, 01:31 PM
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#16
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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I do try demos, thanks for that advice. Where do you recommend I watch for new product announcements? GearSlutz is biased, but there's enough good production advice to keep me reading. Sound on Sound is sketch, they really love every product they review.
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06-14-2020, 01:38 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New York USA
Posts: 284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
I was imagining it would run advertisements for money, just without letting advertisers call shots. That worked my (our) newspaper.
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And then when it reviews and slams a product produced by one of its advertisers, then what?
__________________
"You Can Observe A Lot Just By Watching"
~ Yogi Berra ~
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06-14-2020, 02:20 PM
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#18
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy V
And then when it reviews and slams a product produced by one of its advertisers, then what?
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Staff wouldn't do reviews; users would. Vendors who don't want to take the bad with the good would leave, and vendors who fix their problems would like it.
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06-14-2020, 02:45 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
Where do you recommend I watch for new product announcements?
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Pretty much all the sites I mentioned cover new releases. ( i forgot to mention Bedroom Producers Blog & Tape Op before)
If you don't mind me saying, it's kind of naive of you to expect there to be some sort of perfect site which reviews gear and uses the same criteria and holds the same values as you.
It's not compulsory to use all the latest plugins, just concentrate on making good music.
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06-14-2020, 02:55 PM
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#20
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domzy
Pretty much all the sites I mentioned cover new releases. ( i forgot to mention Bedroom Producers Blog & Tape Op before)
If you don't mind me saying, it's kind of naive of you to expect there to be some sort of perfect site which reviews gear and uses the same criteria and holds the same values as you.
It's not compulsory to use all the latest plugins, just concentrate on making good music.
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I make (good) music, but I am also a VST junkie in my recreation time. No such thing as too many reverbs, and I already have my M7.
Thanks for reminding me of Bedroom Producer's blog. I always forget about it, and then when I go there, I find twenty VST's I want.
I've never seen Tape Op. Thanks for the recommendation.
I'm not naive, sir, and I've already clarified who'd be doing the reviewing, and you ignored what I said about that.
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06-14-2020, 03:08 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
I'm not naive, sir, and I've already clarified who'd be doing the reviewing, and you ignored what I said about that.
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i didn't ignore it, either you misunderstood me or i didn't word my post in a suitable manner.
It doesn't matter who does the reviewing, in my opinion, i don't think you can expect whoever does it to judge by the same yardstick as you would, that's why i said i thought it was best to look at a variety of sources.
Swings and roundabouts - professional reviewers may be influenced by ad revenue, but it's also equally likely that they have more experience & knowledge of competing products, compared to some random bloke of the interwebs.
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06-14-2020, 03:16 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
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The irony - Donald Trump, after all his lies, declarations of "fake news" and attacks on sites he doesn't like
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06-14-2020, 04:29 PM
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#24
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domzy
The irony - Donald Trump, after all his lies, declarations of "fake news" and attacks on sites he doesn't like
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I respectfully pass on your invitation to discuss politics here.
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06-14-2020, 04:30 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
I respectfully pass on your invitation to discuss politics here.
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You brought up politics by pointing to a White House link. Yeah we don't do politics here
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06-14-2020, 05:14 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 535
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I’ve visited Vi-control frequently for several years and I have no idea where you are seeing bias in the forum posts. Do you have a clear example?
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06-14-2020, 05:52 PM
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#27
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
You brought up politics by pointing to a White House link. Yeah we don't do politics here
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It's the law, amigo, no matter who signed it.
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06-14-2020, 06:00 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
It's the law, amigo, no matter who signed it.
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Please keep that crap out of the reaper forum. Thank you
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06-14-2020, 06:05 PM
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#29
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevisi0nary
I’ve visited Vi-control frequently for several years and I have no idea where you are seeing bias in the forum posts. Do you have a clear example?
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I started a thread asking VSTi developers who post music demos to make the source DAW-projects available to all, to prove that the demos aren't cheating by using audio that's not included in the VSTi's; and to aid users by example. I find EastWest's demos suspectly good-sounding, given the state of their of their products; but even if their demos are legit, I've still learned a lot from the source-project demos offered by Reason Studios, Image-Line (FL Studio), and some VSTi developers. I got predictably attacked by Jay Asher ("EastWest lurker"), who was later fired from EastWest.
Then I posted legit grievances against Spitfire, who promised eventual additional microphone samples for Mural when I bought it, and then refused to provide me with said microphones when they were released to other Mural owners. SMH @ their fraudulent business practice. One of their mural samples includes the sound of someone coughing and wheezing during the sample-release. We didn't let coughing go through when I later beta-tested for several years for Orchestral Tools.
So "Hanz" banned me, but not before sending me condescending, pretentious private messages about how I should say what he wants me to say, because he could help my career.
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06-14-2020, 06:10 PM
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#30
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
Please keep that crap out of the reaper forum. Thank you
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It's relevant to this thread. If this thread is in the wrong forum, I respectfully request the mods to move it to a more appropriate forum.
Don't burden me with your sour grapes over who signed that law. It's on the books, it rules moderators, that's all I'm saying.
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06-14-2020, 06:13 PM
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#31
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domzy
It doesn't matter who does the reviewing, in my opinion, i don't think you can expect whoever does it to judge by the same yardstick as you would,
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I don't expect that, so your post is left for others who do expect it.
Quote:
it's also equally likely that they have more experience & knowledge of competing products, compared to some random bloke of the interwebs.
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Whatever validity there is to your point, I don't believe it would undermine the profitability of an unbiased forum. The professional reviewers would be welcome to post their reviews on the unbiased forum.
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06-14-2020, 06:37 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 2,635
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I don't know why Gearslutz's "New Product Alert" isn't good enough for new product alerts. Posters love/hate give opinions on everything from airwindows releases from 5 minutes ago to the latest $360 bus compressor update. Whatever bias is perceived elsewhere on the site I don't detect there.
__________________
The reason rain dances work is because they don't stop dancing until it rains.
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06-14-2020, 06:39 PM
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#33
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vdubreeze
I don't know why Gearslutz's "New Product Alert" isn't good enough for new product alerts.
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I hadn't read that sub-forum; thank you for the recommendation.
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06-14-2020, 08:47 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sunny Siberian Islands
Posts: 962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
I started a thread asking VSTi developers who post music demos to make the source DAW-projects available to all, to prove that the demos aren't cheating by using audio that's not included in the VSTi's; and to aid users by example. I find EastWest's demos suspectly good-sounding, given the state of their of their products; but even if their demos are legit, I've still learned a lot from the source-project demos offered by Reason Studios, Image-Line (FL Studio), and some VSTi developers. I got predictably attacked by Jay Asher ("EastWest lurker"), who was later fired from EastWest.
Then I posted legit grievances against Spitfire, who promised eventual additional microphone samples for Mural when I bought it, and then refused to provide me with said microphones when they were released to other Mural owners. SMH @ their fraudulent business practice. One of their mural samples includes the sound of someone coughing and wheezing during the sample-release. We didn't let coughing go through when I later beta-tested for several years for Orchestral Tools.
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I think you are not creating music and are not looking for the instrument you need. You are looking for the "truth".
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06-14-2020, 11:05 PM
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#35
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cool
I think you are not creating music and are not looking for the instrument you need. You are looking for the "truth".
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That is deep, but I have some music in the works that says you're not completely correct.
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06-14-2020, 11:39 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
That is deep, but I have some music in the works that says you're not completely correct.
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Ah I see, your girlfriend goes to a different school. We don't know her
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06-14-2020, 11:44 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
It's the law, amigo, no matter who signed it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david91340
Don't burden me with your sour grapes over who signed that law. It's on the books, it rules moderators, that's all I'm saying.
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Gee everybody, we better start doing what this guy says, especially you mods, because law, or something!
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06-14-2020, 11:54 PM
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#38
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred garvin
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.............'k
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06-14-2020, 11:55 PM
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#39
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fakemaxwell
Ah I see, your girlfriend goes to a different school. We don't know her
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............'k
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06-15-2020, 12:00 AM
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#40
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 70
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Same offer I made on KVRAudio: If any of my deranged detractors want to put $1,000 on it, my music is better than his. Each party puts $1,000 in escrow. If you're too scared, what are you doing on here fawning over me instead of working on your music? I already have 50,000 people obsessed with me; what are you accomplishing? I call them my "choirboys", and it goes back to 2001 on AR15.com. Bought a DAW, got frustrated your music was bad, decided to take it out on the internet? How's that helping your music?
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