VST forum needed without administrator beholden to its advertisers

[david91340]

KVRAudio and VI-Control are useless to me, because the moderation's bias in favor vendors is obvious. Whoever founds a forum inviting free and open discussion of VST's will get my patronage, and I've turned ad-blocker off. If someone is looking for extra income and likes plugins, I bet he will succeed by starting a forum to compete with KVRAudio.

[Poinzy]

Originally Posted by david91340

If someone is looking for extra income and likes plugins, I bet he will succeed by starting a forum to compete with KVRAudio.

You first.

[EpicSounds]

how would the forum make income without advertising?

[Coachz]

Just try the vsts, who cares what others think.

[david91340]

Originally Posted by Poinzy

You first.

In high school I was Editor-in-Chief of the official school newspaper. When the school censored us unjustly, the entire staff, except the Juniors, resigned, and we started our own, privately owned newspaper subject to the First Amendment and only the First Amendment. I invested $800, and thousands more came from advertising and donations. Sam Donaldson, Brit Hume, and Donald Graham (then the publisher of the Washington Post) offered themselves as our advisors. When I graduated, I gave full ownership of the company to the Sophomores turning Juniors on our staff, and the paper continued publishing and turning a profit for seventeen years, outlasting the school administrators who had censored us.

Now I write and produce music, so I won't be the one to profit by starting an open and free VST forum.

[david91340]

Originally Posted by EpicSounds

how would the forum make income without advertising?

I was imagining it would run advertisements for money, just without letting advertisers call shots. That worked my (our) newspaper.

[david91340]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Just try the vsts, who cares what others think.

Interesting, but expensive.

[Poinzy]

Originally Posted by david91340

In high school I was Editor-in-Chief of the official school newspaper. When the school censored us unjustly, the entire staff, except the Juniors, resigned, and we started our own, privately owned newspaper subject to the First Amendment and only the First Amendment. I invested $800, and thousands more came from advertising and donations. Sam Donaldson, Brit Hume, and Donald Graham (then the publisher of the Washington Post) offered themselves as our advisors. When I graduated, I gave full ownership of the company to the Sophomores turning Juniors on our staff, and the paper continued publishing and turning a profit for seventeen years, outlasting the school administrators who had censored us.

Now I write and produce music, so I won't be the one to profit by starting an open and free VST forum.

So, you're saying, basically, that you're capable of taking on the job. You just don't want to.

[fakemaxwell]

This dude is larping as some sort of VST plugin MI6 agent

[david91340]

Originally Posted by Poinzy

So, you're saying, basically, that you're capable of taking on the job. You just don't want to.

I want to, but I want to compose and produce music even more.

[david91340]

Originally Posted by fakemaxwell

This dude is larping as some sort of VST plugin MI6 agent

It left a paper trail.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by david91340

Interesting, but expensive.

Lots of demos out there for free

[vdubreeze]

Originally Posted by david91340

Interesting, but expensive.

"Expensive" for what? For trying every possible option out there? Just eliminate the ones that don't offer a trial version. Done.

There are plenty of other sites aside from KVR (which I frequent and never had an issue with their moderation). None are perfect. If there's an expensive compressor that didn't have a trial that you needed to know about, ask here and you'll get opinions. Or don't.

[fred garvin]

Originally Posted by david91340

patronage

Patronage as in thousands of dollars for startup and operating costs: hosting, advertising, content creation, etc. etc. in order to really compete with the very popular and well established KVR site, or patronage as in you'll go there and wait for people to come and answer questions for you?

This right here is among other things essentially a VST forum. There are hundreds of VST threads and hundreds of people with opinions about VSTs. And we're as independent as it gets.

[domzy]

Most plugins have demos / trials don't they? In cases where they don't there are loads of sites on the internet where people give opinions about plugins (here, KVR, Music Radar, Sound on Sound, GearSlutz etc.)
Surely you can glean a general opinion by aggregating from multiple sources?

[david91340]

I do try demos, thanks for that advice. Where do you recommend I watch for new product announcements? GearSlutz is biased, but there's enough good production advice to keep me reading. Sound on Sound is sketch, they really love every product they review.

[Tommy V]

Originally Posted by david91340

I was imagining it would run advertisements for money, just without letting advertisers call shots. That worked my (our) newspaper.

And then when it reviews and slams a product produced by one of its advertisers, then what?

[david91340]

Originally Posted by Tommy V

And then when it reviews and slams a product produced by one of its advertisers, then what?

Staff wouldn't do reviews; users would. Vendors who don't want to take the bad with the good would leave, and vendors who fix their problems would like it.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by david91340

Where do you recommend I watch for new product announcements?

Pretty much all the sites I mentioned cover new releases. ( i forgot to mention Bedroom Producers Blog & Tape Op before)

If you don't mind me saying, it's kind of naive of you to expect there to be some sort of perfect site which reviews gear and uses the same criteria and holds the same values as you.
It's not compulsory to use all the latest plugins, just concentrate on making good music.

[david91340]

Originally Posted by domzy

Pretty much all the sites I mentioned cover new releases. ( i forgot to mention Bedroom Producers Blog & Tape Op before)

If you don't mind me saying, it's kind of naive of you to expect there to be some sort of perfect site which reviews gear and uses the same criteria and holds the same values as you.
It's not compulsory to use all the latest plugins, just concentrate on making good music.

I make (good) music, but I am also a VST junkie in my recreation time. No such thing as too many reverbs, and I already have my M7.

Thanks for reminding me of Bedroom Producer's blog. I always forget about it, and then when I go there, I find twenty VST's I want.

I've never seen Tape Op. Thanks for the recommendation.

I'm not naive, sir, and I've already clarified who'd be doing the reviewing, and you ignored what I said about that.

[david91340]

There's also new potential for biased moderators to get moderated:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...ne-censorship/

[domzy]

Originally Posted by david91340

I'm not naive, sir, and I've already clarified who'd be doing the reviewing, and you ignored what I said about that.

i didn't ignore it, either you misunderstood me or i didn't word my post in a suitable manner.
It doesn't matter who does the reviewing, in my opinion, i don't think you can expect whoever does it to judge by the same yardstick as you would, that's why i said i thought it was best to look at a variety of sources.
Swings and roundabouts - professional reviewers may be influenced by ad revenue, but it's also equally likely that they have more experience & knowledge of competing products, compared to some random bloke of the interwebs.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by david91340

There's also new potential for biased moderators to get moderated:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...ne-censorship/

The irony - Donald Trump, after all his lies, declarations of "fake news" and attacks on sites he doesn't like

[david91340]

Originally Posted by domzy

The irony - Donald Trump, after all his lies, declarations of "fake news" and attacks on sites he doesn't like

I respectfully pass on your invitation to discuss politics here.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by david91340

I respectfully pass on your invitation to discuss politics here.

You brought up politics by pointing to a White House link. Yeah we don't do politics here

[thevisi0nary]

I’ve visited Vi-control frequently for several years and I have no idea where you are seeing bias in the forum posts. Do you have a clear example?

[david91340]

Originally Posted by Coachz

You brought up politics by pointing to a White House link. Yeah we don't do politics here

It's the law, amigo, no matter who signed it.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by david91340

It's the law, amigo, no matter who signed it.

Please keep that crap out of the reaper forum. Thank you

[david91340]

Originally Posted by thevisi0nary

I’ve visited Vi-control frequently for several years and I have no idea where you are seeing bias in the forum posts. Do you have a clear example?

I started a thread asking VSTi developers who post music demos to make the source DAW-projects available to all, to prove that the demos aren't cheating by using audio that's not included in the VSTi's; and to aid users by example. I find EastWest's demos suspectly good-sounding, given the state of their of their products; but even if their demos are legit, I've still learned a lot from the source-project demos offered by Reason Studios, Image-Line (FL Studio), and some VSTi developers. I got predictably attacked by Jay Asher ("EastWest lurker"), who was later fired from EastWest.

Then I posted legit grievances against Spitfire, who promised eventual additional microphone samples for Mural when I bought it, and then refused to provide me with said microphones when they were released to other Mural owners. SMH @ their fraudulent business practice. One of their mural samples includes the sound of someone coughing and wheezing during the sample-release. We didn't let coughing go through when I later beta-tested for several years for Orchestral Tools.

So "Hanz" banned me, but not before sending me condescending, pretentious private messages about how I should say what he wants me to say, because he could help my career.

[david91340]

Originally Posted by Coachz

Please keep that crap out of the reaper forum. Thank you

It's relevant to this thread. If this thread is in the wrong forum, I respectfully request the mods to move it to a more appropriate forum.

Don't burden me with your sour grapes over who signed that law. It's on the books, it rules moderators, that's all I'm saying.

[david91340]

Originally Posted by domzy

It doesn't matter who does the reviewing, in my opinion, i don't think you can expect whoever does it to judge by the same yardstick as you would,

I don't expect that, so your post is left for others who do expect it.

it's also equally likely that they have more experience & knowledge of competing products, compared to some random bloke of the interwebs.

Whatever validity there is to your point, I don't believe it would undermine the profitability of an unbiased forum. The professional reviewers would be welcome to post their reviews on the unbiased forum.

[vdubreeze]

I don't know why Gearslutz's "New Product Alert" isn't good enough for new product alerts. Posters love/hate give opinions on everything from airwindows releases from 5 minutes ago to the latest $360 bus compressor update. Whatever bias is perceived elsewhere on the site I don't detect there.

[david91340]

Originally Posted by vdubreeze

I don't know why Gearslutz's "New Product Alert" isn't good enough for new product alerts.

I hadn't read that sub-forum; thank you for the recommendation.

[cool]

Originally Posted by david91340

I started a thread asking VSTi developers who post music demos to make the source DAW-projects available to all, to prove that the demos aren't cheating by using audio that's not included in the VSTi's; and to aid users by example. I find EastWest's demos suspectly good-sounding, given the state of their of their products; but even if their demos are legit, I've still learned a lot from the source-project demos offered by Reason Studios, Image-Line (FL Studio), and some VSTi developers. I got predictably attacked by Jay Asher ("EastWest lurker"), who was later fired from EastWest.

Then I posted legit grievances against Spitfire, who promised eventual additional microphone samples for Mural when I bought it, and then refused to provide me with said microphones when they were released to other Mural owners. SMH @ their fraudulent business practice. One of their mural samples includes the sound of someone coughing and wheezing during the sample-release. We didn't let coughing go through when I later beta-tested for several years for Orchestral Tools.

I think you are not creating music and are not looking for the instrument you need. You are looking for the "truth".
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[david91340]

Originally Posted by cool

I think you are not creating music and are not looking for the instrument you need. You are looking for the "truth".
-

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That is deep, but I have some music in the works that says you're not completely correct.

[fakemaxwell]

Originally Posted by david91340

That is deep, but I have some music in the works that says you're not completely correct.

Ah I see, your girlfriend goes to a different school. We don't know her

[fred garvin]

Originally Posted by david91340

There's also new potential for biased moderators to get moderated:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...ne-censorship/

Originally Posted by david91340

It's the law, amigo, no matter who signed it.

Originally Posted by david91340

Don't burden me with your sour grapes over who signed that law. It's on the books, it rules moderators, that's all I'm saying.

Gee everybody, we better start doing what this guy says, especially you mods, because law, or something!

[david91340]

Originally Posted by fred garvin

Gee everybody, we better start doing what this guy says, especially you mods, because law, or something!

.............'k

[david91340]

Originally Posted by fakemaxwell

Ah I see, your girlfriend goes to a different school. We don't know her

............'k

[david91340]

Same offer I made on KVRAudio: If any of my deranged detractors want to put $1,000 on it, my music is better than his. Each party puts $1,000 in escrow. If you're too scared, what are you doing on here fawning over me instead of working on your music? I already have 50,000 people obsessed with me; what are you accomplishing? I call them my "choirboys", and it goes back to 2001 on AR15.com. Bought a DAW, got frustrated your music was bad, decided to take it out on the internet? How's that helping your music?