Old 05-10-2020, 04:40 PM   #1
Beat Machine
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Default intresting deveolpment in tech

https://www.psneurope.com/studio/ai-audio-workflows
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Old 05-10-2020, 04:51 PM   #2
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Funny you mention that.
Saw a Facebook post earlier for a 3 minuite mastering service. Had to dig deeper out of curiosity.
Quite a few vsti cropping up with AI touted in it's features too.

As per usual with Facebook I can't find the posts again
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Old 05-11-2020, 08:44 AM   #3
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That article does seem to be painting the AI picture with strokes that are a little to broad to really specify WHAT AI is being used for. I would love to see a more techie article than this, but it has at least whetted my appetite for more.
There are so many cool algorithms going around these days that it`s hard to keep up with progress in general, let alone in one`s own area of work.

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Old 05-14-2020, 12:29 AM   #4
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Default its a media bomb ;;,...Ivan

i can drag and drop mixes ;


but who knows what technical mixing is*
and who knows what the context or arttheory of the genre is

*eq is the very last thing i would ever use

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Old 05-17-2020, 04:38 PM   #5
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Of course, just my opinion, but I doubt AI will ever bring anything good to music world, nothing good in any creative world, and I will stop here in creative world. Nectar, for example, and again it is just my opinion, with AI and that stuff, can just act by some coded rules which some human/humans coded, witch have, maybe great, knowledge about mixing. But I think, beauty in any kind of creativity is unpredictability. What maybe AI can do is just make some kind of "polished" impression, just illusion and just some pale copy of something what was already created.
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Old 05-17-2020, 08:50 PM   #6
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I doubt AI will ever bring anything good to music world, nothing good in any creative world
I couldn't disagree more. :-) Assuming we're talking about the whole industry of AI/machine learning/neural nets/etc., I think in 10 years we're going to be regularly amazed at the miracles it's working in audio. Whether it's intelligent beat detection tempo mapping, forensic audio reconstruction, timbral alteration, groove humanizing, sound synthesis, composing aids, reverb removal, creating realistic vocal harmony parts, simulating other vocalists, matching mix qualities, magic "make it better" knobs... I'm not personally a fan of the "automatic mixing/mastering" plugins that are out there, but apparently there are already lots of people using and appreciating them even now. I bet that stuff is going to look like caveman tooling when the more advanced auto-mixing/mastering comes along.

That is, if it turns out that those problems can be addressed in a financially reasonable way by plugin companies. I don't know how the economics of it will pencil, but that's why i gave my prediction a 10 year window. I actually think a lot of this stuff will start happening in a year or three. I beta test for a plugin company; most (all?) of their new features are based on machine learning. At the least, it's an arena where companies will be able to, and will try to, grow; most of the other audio effects are mostly "solved" at this point. If you're going to innovate in audio, machine learning has to look pretty tempting. Lots of problems in audio screaming out for that kind of solution.
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Old 05-17-2020, 11:32 PM   #7
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Funny how this article is interviewing the head of product development at Avid: he seems to place a lot of hopes on artificial intelligence, as if it was going to fix the bad software design that is plaguing his company’s products.

IMO, the entire argument for AI being a game changer in music is just a trap meant to make users disregard bad software implementation and lower their expectations as to what good music is - and as to what a properly designed workspace would allow them to create.
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Old 05-18-2020, 03:29 AM   #8
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Hi clepsydrae,
my point was strictly in domain of creativity: songwriting, arranging, producing and mixing/mastering. As far as I know, even now there are some good tools which can do amazing job on reverb removal, noise removal, and groove humanizing (which is, IMO, not a big deal but certainly useful for someone, but it is just notes offsets with random numbers).
Reaper have amazing tools, especially in JS, we just need to discover them and learn them.
I totally agree with Perken.
From my experience, every time I thought some plugins, no mather if it was in graphic/web/UI design or audio domain, will be shortcut to do my job quicker and hopefully better, in the end I always realized I wasted my time.
AI "can learn" maybe about overall frequency balance, and should be able, for example, to find or make place in the mix for vocal, and math will be correct, but that does not mean it will sound good.

Everyone of The Great Masters: Bob Clearmountain, Al Schmitt, CLA, Tom Elmhirst, Dave Pensando, Jaycen Joshua, and so on...I believe share the same thought, as Pensando said: "At the end of the day, we are not selling our technical knowledge, but our taste."
That quote was my whole point about AI.
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Old 05-18-2020, 06:00 AM   #9
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I saw this new plugin recently. It used machine learning for a combination of neural networks to recreate tube preamp behaviour. Total black box, and it seems the developer has no idea what it is doing under the hood.

https://www.accentize.com/PreTube

Gearslutz discussion where the developer says he doesn't know how it works: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-...t3-au-aax.html
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:38 AM   #10
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Hi clepsydrae,
my point was strictly in domain of creativity: songwriting, arranging, producing and mixing/mastering.
Ok, gotcha, and I do agree that those domains will take longer. But I would still predict that AI is going to surprise us... maybe it won't be as simple as "push this button and an inspiring song pops out", and will be more about useful creativity aids, but let's not forget that AI is already getting pretty good at making beautiful things all on its own. In other words, I think we might end up being surprised at how easy it is to tickle the aesthetic nerves that humans possess. Once they figure out how to represent narrative structure in a computer, for example, and give a neural net 50 trillion iterations to practice, is it really going to be that difficult for the algorithm to generate scripts that are better than a Marvel movie? Maybe the best songs will always be written by a human, I could believe that. I'm just noting that we aren't as sophisticated as we think we are. As a species that develops emotional connections to a Tamagotchi, it doesn't seem hard to imagine a computer charming us. Today chess, Go... tomorrow... guitar solos? Poetry? Plays? It's going to be weird when/if we have to let go of our human egos regarding art making and accept that our human-created computers are better at it. Not to mention medicine, business, military, engineering...

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From my experience, every time I thought some plugins, no mather if it was in graphic/web/UI design or audio domain, will be shortcut to do my job quicker and hopefully better, in the end I always realized I wasted my time.
Yeah, same here. But I think the failures of the past in this domain are going to be forgotten once the tech really gets going. We shall see. :-)
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:41 AM   #11
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Once they figure out how to represent narrative structure in a computer, for example, and give a neural net 50 trillion iterations to practice, is it really going to be that difficult for the algorithm to generate scripts that are better than a Marvel movie?
I think a ZX Spectrum could write a script better than a Marvel movie.
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:57 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Judders View Post
I think a ZX Spectrum could write a script better than a Marvel movie.
🤣🤣🤣

Maybe, sometime, AI will write some script something lika a Marvel movie, but I strongly believe it will never write a "script like "Once Upon a Time in America", "Godfather", "Splendour in the Grass", "The Intouchables",...
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Old 05-18-2020, 03:47 PM   #13
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Maybe, sometime, AI will write some script something lika a Marvel movie
Have you seen GPT-2? Just sayin'... we're already pretty close.

This is the prompt it was given:

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Originally Posted by prompt
In a shocking finding, scientist discovered a herd of unicorns living in a remote, previously unexplored valley, in the Andes Mountains. Even more surprising to the researchers was the fact that the unicorns spoke perfect English.
This is entirely AI-created text (best of 10 tries):

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Originally Posted by future robot overlord
The scientist named the population, after their distinctive horn, Ovid’s Unicorn. These four-horned, silver-white unicorns were previously unknown to science.

Now, after almost two centuries, the mystery of what sparked this odd phenomenon is finally solved.

Dr. Jorge Pérez, an evolutionary biologist from the University of La Paz, and several companions, were exploring the Andes Mountains when they found a small valley, with no other animals or humans. Pérez noticed that the valley had what appeared to be a natural fountain, surrounded by two peaks of rock and silver snow.

Pérez and the others then ventured further into the valley. “By the time we reached the top of one peak, the water looked blue, with some crystals on top,” said Pérez.

Pérez and his friends were astonished to see the unicorn herd. These creatures could be seen from the air without having to move too much to see them – they were so close they could touch their horns.

While examining these bizarre creatures the scientists discovered that the creatures also spoke some fairly regular English. Pérez stated, “We can see, for example, that they have a common ‘language,’ something like a dialect or dialectic.”

Dr. Pérez believes that the unicorns may have originated in Argentina, where the animals were believed to be descendants of a lost race of people who lived there before the arrival of humans in those parts of South America.

While their origins are still unclear, some believe that perhaps the creatures were created when a human and a unicorn met each other in a time before human civilization. According to Pérez, “In South America, such incidents seem to be quite common.”

However, Pérez also pointed out that it is likely that the only way of knowing for sure if unicorns are indeed the descendants of a lost alien race is through DNA. “But they seem to be able to communicate in English quite well, which I believe is a sign of evolution, or at least a change in social organization,” said the scientist.
I ran GPT-2 on my computer for a while and played around with it. It's no joke. (It is often funny, though.) It's quirky and goofy and gets a lot of stuff wrong... but give the researchers/developers a couple years, and some AI notion of what a movie script should look like... I'm thinking Marvel movies on demand before 2025 is done.
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Old 05-19-2020, 10:15 AM   #14
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I'm thinking Marvel movies on demand before 2025 is done.
That's both frightening and cool.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:29 PM   #15
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Default AI vs music

AI is what one programmer (or an ordered list of them) thinks as he (not she) on a keyboard.

Is that ever an interesting development in tech?
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Old 05-20-2020, 12:24 AM   #16
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"[...] is it really going to be that difficult for the algorithm to generate scripts that are better than a Marvel movie?"

I've had root canal treatments better than a Marvel movie. Doesn't say much. These movies are already AI based, like algoritmically concieved through studying different demographics lowest common denominators and so on. I guess that's about the best we can hope for "art" under the present paradigm.
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Old 05-20-2020, 03:41 AM   #17
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Interesting article from the BBC that explores this.

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/...ke-in-20-years
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:02 AM   #18
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Thanks uksnowy for that link. The article seems to confirm the idea - common to every arena using technology - that tech is tool, only augmenting human decisions. If there is no human playing the game, the game is not smart, but dead. It used to be that the definition of artificial intelligence included the expectation that the tech could do something substantial without a human engaged with it via some controller or via pre-programming. The highly watered down and highly marketed versions of "AI" make human-like promises but deliver only tech-like tweaks. The human creator is still required to make the tech wheel turn. Machine learning or neural nets do nothing to change that.

Reaper is an example.
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Old 06-10-2020, 12:32 PM   #19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oQ0Obi14rM

Interesting samples at 3:41, 4:48, but the whole video is worth watching.

Edit: a catalog of AI generated songs: https://jukebox.openai.com/

There are different categories; e.g. some where it generates the lyrics, some where it doesn't, etc; I don't understand all the columns but you'll get the picture.

Pretty damn amazing.

Edit2: curated list of purely AI-invented samples... the first one ("Country in the style of Alan Parsons") is hilarious:

https://openai.com/blog/jukebox/

Edit3: the Sinatra one at the end! Keep in mind that AI wrote the lyrics too! I know, I know, these are curated, so there is human selection involved. Still!

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