Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Q&A, Tips, Tricks and Howto

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-26-2022, 06:55 PM   #1
sjs94704
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Berkeley, CA USA
Posts: 1,336
Default Question about meters on playback during mixing

I am just wondering, when in post production mixing, I realize that everything can be subjective, but, overall, what is the MAXIMUM meter level that you might ever want the volume to ever be during playback?
__________________
Bayside Studios, Berkeley, CA - Music That Brings People Together
Steven Schuyler, Singer
sjs94704 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2022, 02:56 AM   #2
Judders
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
Default

The theoretical maximum would be 0.0dBFD for the master track and any level at all for any other track. Because of floating point maths used for the audio engine, any track other than the master track can go as far into the red as you like without distorting.
Judders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2022, 03:49 AM   #3
martmix
Human being with feelings
 
martmix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: quebec CA
Posts: 1,574
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
The theoretical maximum would be 0.0dBFD for the master track and any level at all for any other track. Because of floating point maths used for the audio engine, any track other than the master track can go as far into the red as you like without distorting.
so you mean track can "peak" in the red without digital cliping?
__________________
[cpu=i7-6700,12gig ram]DAW=Reaper-[roland-quad-capture]-[krk rokit-5 G3]-[TR5-eq 81]-
[amplitube-max]
YouTube: ricky & marty
martmix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2022, 03:58 AM   #4
Pashkuli
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom, T. Wells
Posts: 2,454
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs94704 View Post
I am just wondering, when in post production mixing, I realize that everything can be subjective, but, overall, what is the MAXIMUM meter level that you might ever want the volume to ever be during playback?
Maximum meter VU level is pointless without context (of what audio signal is being measured).

The one that is comfortable to mix using your ears and not damage them, is best during playback.
This is related to the so called "calibration of audio volume" and is controlled by your master volume knob on your hardware device.
You can calibrate by using Pink noise generator, which VU (RMS in digital) reaches about -18 to -14dbFS on your master bus meter.
Then you adjust the hardware Volume knob so that it is comfortable to listen to a pink noise (yes, I know it is an oxymoron).
Then, if you have a dbA meter or such device and you are on monitors (not headphones), you can measure your comfort level (where you head is in comparison to the monitors). Usually if it is between 75~80dBA you are good (some prefer lover, some higher).
If you are on headphones (as I am), just adjust the knob of headphone jack, till somehow "pleasant". But keep in mind, for headphones it is a bit tricky.
You can check up my thread, regarding mixing on headphones and how to prepare for such, here:

Binaural setup for headphones mix\render\master in Reaper


Regarding mixing in the box, DAW's mixer and its volume levels (usually Peak meters, with or without RMS meters option), if anything hits the red indicator, means that track Peaks unnecessarily lot.

You can save the project as is (with red clipping all over the place) and thank to 32bfp or 64bfp (bit floating point) nothing will be lost as audio data.
Same if you export in an audio format a mix pre-master also above 24bit. It will say it is above 0dBfs, but the data will be preserved and the mastering engineer will have to make some "difficult decisions". Those would be either to tell you:
· you do not know how to prepare your source files for mixing (both low end build up and poking short peaks)
· you have done a rookie mistake with final level automations
· you are lazy bastard, calling himself an "audio engineer"
· something about your mom

Most likely all of the above.

Volume is about level of audio data (in digital realm). You can have super crazy low and low mid build up, your volume will be huge, but you probably will shake your head because nothing in the mix sounds loud... contrary to what is on your favourite track (reference).

Perceived loudness is more about the mid, upper mid range, where human hearing is more sensitive to those levels.

Overall the golden rule is to have your source audio files prepared in such a way, so that during mixing your meters and faders (final volume and automation) to make sense in comparison between tracks.
Meters clipping the red are indication of something being "not so good" about its (the track's) audio data signal.

Last edited by Pashkuli; 01-27-2022 at 04:19 AM.
Pashkuli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2022, 07:16 AM   #5
Philbo King
Human being with feelings
 
Philbo King's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,202
Default

Depends on the crest factor of the audio.
Drums: +5
(Keeping in mind 'overs' on a track do not clip)

Distorted guitar: -5
__________________
Tangent Studio - Philbo King
www.soundclick.com/philboking - Audio streams
Philbo King is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2022, 07:19 AM   #6
Judders
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martmix View Post
so you mean track can "peak" in the red without digital cliping?
Yes, as long as there are no plugins that process with fixed integer audio (I don't know of any, but they might be out there).

This is on playback though, not recording.
Judders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2022, 09:52 AM   #7
martmix
Human being with feelings
 
martmix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: quebec CA
Posts: 1,574
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders View Post
Yes, as long as there are no plugins that process with fixed integer audio (I don't know of any, but they might be out there).

This is on playback though, not recording.
cool thx !
__________________
[cpu=i7-6700,12gig ram]DAW=Reaper-[roland-quad-capture]-[krk rokit-5 G3]-[TR5-eq 81]-
[amplitube-max]
YouTube: ricky & marty
martmix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.