Glitch when recording / Question about buffering/latency

nickfr84 · 01-01-2020, 04:12 PM

Hi everyone,
I posted this in the Reaper Q & A section the other day and didn't get any responses, I'm new to the forum and also new to Reaper (and relatively novice in the whole world of DAWs), and I don't know if it's in poor form to repost this here. Please let me know if it is and I can delete.

I recently started using Reaper to record my band - we did one session with 8 inputs (5 drums + 3 scratch tracks for bass and guitars), it went really well. We did some overdub sessions for those tracks and that went well too. We got together this week do another drum session with the same set up (5 drum inputs and 3 scratch inputs, total of 8 active tracks) and we were having lots of issues with these little glitches/skips in the tracks. They were pretty unpredictable - our songs are about 3-4 minutes long and there would often be 1 glitch/skip in each take (not at a similar part of the song, though) but we did manage to get some takes without any glitches/skips at all. Afterwards we did a few overdubs (1 track at a time) and there weren't any apparent glitches/skips (but, for instance, during these overdub takes there were stretches of silence where for all I know there could be a glitch/skip or maybe there really weren't any at all!)

I've been doing a lot of research here and elsewhere online and I've seen a few possible causes but I'm still a little lost about the best steps to take.
I'm operating Windows 10 with a Scarlett 18i20 2nd gen. Specifically, my computer is a Dell Inspiron 15R that I bought a few years ago. CPU and Disk use seems normal. While tracking i tried cutting down active tracks to 6 and closed out a couple background processes and that didn't make any noticeable difference (still got glitches/skips in 3 out of 3 takes) but perhaps I need to cancel out more background processes?
My biggest specific question is about buffering - as this keeps coming up as a possible cause. When I open the ASIO Control Panel, buffer size is at 256. In Reaper under Audio Device block size is also at 256. Should I be increasing these? I don't fully understand the buffer/latency factor - it seems like increasing these numbers may solve the problem but I also don't understand why I/everyone wouldn't just leave the buffer size/block size at a higher rate anyway - is there a downside to putting these numbers up? Under Audio Buffering the media buffer size is the default 1200 with prebuffer at 100%.
I ran Latency Mon while just doing some editing in Reaper and it found some issues, recommended "disabling CPU throttling" programs in control panel and BIOS set up (and checking for BIOS update). I'm not sure I fully understood Latency Mon, though.
The only change that has occurred between recording sessions is that I did some mixing and installed some plug ins - but on the tracks I am recording and having this issue with I am not using any plug ins yet.
I'm not sure, but it seems like there are more playback glitches than I had previously experienced as well, but I'm not positive - just wanted to put that out there as a possible symptom in case it helps to narrow down the cause.

Any other settings I should be checking? Any other likely/probable causes?
Thanks so much,
Nick

suchatravesty · 01-01-2020, 04:41 PM

There is a question of what exactly has changed since it was working, but the first thing I would try is to set your ASIO buffer as high as it will go and see if the problem goes away.
I don't have any experience with focusrite, but I have a Tascam interface and it gave me soooooo many headaches when I was first starting out because of drivers.

Are you recording to the hard drive on the computer or is the project on a removable drive? Do you hear these glitches while you're recording or is it only on playback?

nickfr84 · 01-01-2020, 05:05 PM

Thanks for the response!
As far as I know nothing has changed but I’ve read posts from folks having similar issues where it seems like a setting or something changed without the user being aware of it. As I mentioned the only change I’ve made between the first and second drum session is installing some plug ins, but I wasn’t using any of them on this session.
I’m recording to the hard drive on my computer but there’s a decent amount of free space - more, actually. than during the first session. I’m not noticing the glitch when tracking but we’re also playing live in a small room so I’m not sure any of us would hear it. It’s also the slightest glitch / missing time. At first it can sound like a player error, especially if we’re just listening to drums, but it’s definitely not (when listening to bass and guitar in the playback it’s very evident that a a very small, fractional amount of time has been cut out)

Based on some other things I’ve read about buffer rate - will increasing it potentially lead to increased latency (delay between playback and playing live)? If so should I readjust the buffer rate down for when we’re doing overdubs so that there’s not any timing issues caused by latency?
Thanks again!

beingmf · 01-01-2020, 05:48 PM

My guess is that the disk is too slow (a mechanical harddisk?).
Other than that: WiFi is off?

nickfr84 · 01-01-2020, 06:35 PM

Hey.
Thanks for the response. Are all dscs mechanical? I don’t know much about that aspect of computers. Is there something I should / could do differently? Should I be going into an external drive when I record?

suchatravesty · 01-01-2020, 11:20 PM

No you don't need to use an external drive, I just wanted to rule that out. It could be your hard drive is getting old, but I would check other things first. Check that you're using the latest Focusrite ASIO driver for your interface, then try the ASIO buffer setting and see if that fixes your problem. If that doesn't help, try a different computer all together. Reaper will run on almost anything.

The short answer is you'll be fine with a high buffer setting if you're using direct monitoring from your interface.
if you're interface driver isn't very accurately reporting latency the buffer setting will affect things somewhat but that's something for you to research after you get to recording without glitches.

nickfr84 · 01-02-2020, 04:19 AM

Thanks! How can I check that the focusrite driver is the latest?

ivansc · 01-03-2020, 06:57 AM

go to the Focusrite site & download the latest driver software. IF you are already a registered owner, you are also entitled to a bunch of truly excellent free VST effects & instruments as a sort of thank you from Focusrite.

Now on to the best wayt to actually check if your comuter is set up right for multitrack recording. ALSO on the Focusrite site is a good article on how to set the settings on a PC to give you the best possible performance for recording, so read that & do what it says.
Now the crucial bit.
Go to resplendence.com and download their latency checker software. Run it, then see what it has to say about your system setup.

Get back to us if you are still struggling & just in case you didn't already, check out the free video tutorials and download the free user guide at reaper.fm

karbomusic · 01-03-2020, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beingmf

My guess is that the disk is too slow (a mechanical harddisk?).

FYI that when disks can't keep up transport should flash red.

arhall · 01-03-2020, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickfr84

Hey.
Thanks for the response. Are all dscs mechanical? I don’t know much about that aspect of computers. Is there something I should / could do differently? Should I be going into an external drive when I record?

Disable CPU throttling. Even check that you have latest graphic driver. You should check how your soundcard is connected. I guess it's USB. If it support USB3 you must use USB3 input. If you have a lot of other USB stuff connected it can cause problem. Have you tried all USB ports or have only the soundcard connected?

nickfr84 · 01-05-2020, 11:51 AM

Hey all,
Thanks so much for all of the help and suggestions. I tried to run a dummy session the other day at home (without all my mics etc) so I ran one line in (guitar) but armed it on 6 tracks. It came through glitch free. Yesterday I tried with my band and got a glitch again (instead of a total skip, it’s a brief loud electronic sort of buzz sound - not on the track but a glitch/error). I’m not sure if that helps to diagnose the cause in anyway? I moved my buffer rate up to 512. I’m going to reinstall focusrite driver and try some of the other suggestions and see. I did want to put out that my computer has a 8gig ram and the processor is an intel core i5-4200U @ 1.60 GHz 2301 MHz 2 cores 4 logical processors.
I know next to nothing about computer specs like RAM and CPU. Does that info look good for running a session on reaper (trying to track 6-8 simultaneous tracks) or are there any red flags in that info?
Thanks again,
Nick

kstn · 01-12-2020, 12:34 AM

In addition to disable cpu throttling, also disable usb powersaving. Also set windows power plan “High performance”.

Not tested Dell Inspiron 15R, but with its specs it should record 8 tracks without any problems, so trouble is in windows imho.

UPD Does laptop work from adapter or battery? Adapter is better.

nickfr84 · 01-12-2020, 07:27 AM

Thanks so much. I am using the adapter rather than battery. I’ve tried recording at home with 1 input recording 7 simultaneous tracks and it seems to be working with no glitches after making a few adjustments. I’ll be trying it out in the band setting this week so we’ll see! My friend, who is very knowledgeable about computers but not recording software, mentioned that disabling cpu throttling could potentially fry the computer. Does anyone know anything about that? He also suggested that the glitches may be occurring because the computer is getting too hot and suggested putting an ice pack under the computer. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks!

kstn · 01-12-2020, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickfr84

My friend, who is very knowledgeable about computers but not recording software, mentioned that disabling cpu throttling could potentially fry the computer. Does anyone know anything about that? He also suggested that the glitches may be occurring because the computer is getting too hot and suggested putting an ice pack under the computer. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks!

Are you sure that an idea about ice pack wasn't a joke?)

Try some utils to check the temperature (i use https://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/) and look at results. At any case - clean the laptop and replace thermal grease should not make worse.

UPD There is smth wrong here - just record 8 tracks, with big buffer, without heavy plugins should not overload cpu, even with disabled throttling. We record 8-track live gigs about 12 or 15 years ago, to laptop (and it wasn't the best and mightiest laptop) without troubles (Just one - win xp falls after about a hour (it dislikes files more than some size), so we use ubuntu+wine+reaper which work fine)

nickfr84 · 01-12-2020, 08:32 AM

Thanks again! I’ll report back after I try it with the band in a couple days. The ice pack wasn’t a joke - you use an insulated (if that’s the right word) ice pack, not, like, ice in a plastic bag. There are ice packs that hold in the wetness so your computer won’t get wet.

Philbo King · 01-15-2020, 08:13 AM

Here's a pretty comprehensive guide to tweaking windows for audio. It's well worth putting a couple hours in ahead of time to avoid these issues.

https://www.heavyweightbass.net/inde...BCwl7PA6rl_ERM

nickfr84 · 01-15-2020, 02:51 PM

That’s awesome! Thanks so much for that and thanks again to everyone for the help. We did a super quick recording last night with no glitches! Hopefully it wasn’t just a one-time thing! We have our next real session in a week and a half so I’ll report back then. If folks have other things to look out for or suggestions please keep contributing. This has all been so helpful!
Nick