Old 04-24-2019, 07:42 AM   #1
bruce8306
Human being with feelings
 
bruce8306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hangzhou China
Posts: 14
Default 64 Integer Please!

Today i receive 2 files from my friend Himhui who is also a reaper user.
He asked me to check 2 mixdown audio files.

64 Float vs 48 Integer in Reaper.
Here is the link, you can check it:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OH...JwClwV4emQJD5C

The differences between these two are huge. Please pay attention to the clarity of low frequency.

I heard that Cubase brings 32bit integer back.

So PLEASE consider to add 64 integer option . That will be awesome!

Thanks a lot!
bruce8306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 07:47 AM   #2
7thresonance
Human being with feelings
 
7thresonance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: India
Posts: 29
Default

Isn't reaper already 64 bit? Or am I missing something here
7thresonance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 07:54 AM   #3
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
Default

AFAIU, 64 Bit integer audio does not make any sense at all, as 64 bit Float in any case already provides 48 Bit resolution and hence a lot more than ever needed.

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 07:54 AM   #4
bruce8306
Human being with feelings
 
bruce8306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hangzhou China
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thresonance View Post
Isn't reaper already 64 bit? Or am I missing something here
Now it's 64 float.
Wish there will be 64 integer.
bruce8306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 08:00 AM   #5
bruce8306
Human being with feelings
 
bruce8306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Hangzhou China
Posts: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
AFAIU, 64 Bit integer audio does not make any sense at all, as 64 bit Float in any case already provides 48 Bit resolution and hence a lot more than ever needed.

-Michael
Please Please check the audio files.

Everything is the same except one is exported by 64 float and the another is by 48 integer.
But you definitely could hear the difference.
bruce8306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 08:09 AM   #6
cfillion
Human being with feelings
 
cfillion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 4,937
Default

Rendering twice often yields a different output, even with identical render settings (many plugins are non-deterministic, for instance). Try importing the files into two tracks with the phase inverted on one of them to identify the actual differences and what processing might be causing it.

(Also, both linked files are 16-bit)

Last edited by cfillion; 04-24-2019 at 08:17 AM.
cfillion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 11:39 AM   #7
inarisound
Human being with feelings
 
inarisound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cfillion View Post
Rendering twice often yields a different output, even with identical render settings (many plugins are non-deterministic, for instance). Try importing the files into two tracks with the phase inverted on one of them to identify the actual differences and what processing might be causing it.

(Also, both linked files are 16-bit)
I did the test, and there is more HF information in one of them....

though, i'm confused why they both 16 bits?
inarisound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 11:47 AM   #8
Lokasenna
Human being with feelings
 
Lokasenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
Default

I'm unclear why a higher-precision number would help when you say the issue is in low frequencies - those are the *easiest* to represent digitally, even with less precision/worse sample rates.
__________________
I'm no longer using Reaper or working on scripts for it. Sorry. :(
Default 5.0 Nitpicky Edition / GUI library for Lua scripts / Theory Helper / Radial Menu / Donate
Lokasenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2019, 08:43 PM   #9
Kennneth
Human being with feelings
 
Kennneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 31
Default

I did a lot of test several years ago to render the projects via floating 64 bit and integer 48 bit , everytime I picked the 48 integer's one. I understand that floating point for DAW calculation is the mainstream nowadays but to my ears the integer summing is more convincing though all plugins are still floating point.
__________________
Every cloud has a silver lining !!
Kennneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2019, 12:01 AM   #10
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,688
Default

If the range of the signal is within the headroom and the resolution of the signal is less than 48 bits, 48 Bit integer, 64 bit integer and 64 bit float will provide the same output in any operation (float might be an extremely tiny bit more accurate in very rare cases but this is certainly neglectable).

-Michael
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2019, 03:13 AM   #11
mlprod
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,343
Default

This is great stuff, claiming audible diff between 64 Float and 48 Integer, providing two 16bit files as proof.
__________________
Magnus Lindberg Productions - VRTKL Audio - Redmount Studios
magnuslindberg.com
mlprod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2019, 03:47 AM   #12
bezusheist
Human being with feelings
 
bezusheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Mullet
Posts: 829
Default

Why not go for 128 bit integer ? Or sixteen hundred kagillion million thousand ?

__________________
I like turtles

Last edited by bezusheist; 04-25-2019 at 03:59 AM.
bezusheist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2019, 02:40 PM   #13
enroe
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,575
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce8306 View Post
So PLEASE consider to add 64 integer option . That will be awesome!
Now it's 64 float.
Wish there will be 64 integer.
I had a hard time to ponder about the advantage of 64 bit integer -
or better 128 bit integer. But here's the result:

A very high-bit DAW will overload the CPU even with only a few tracks.
And that will confine the complexity of a song - you can use
only a modicum of plugins - and thus it can increase creativity!

If that is your intention you are right!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
64 float = 52bit mantissa, 1 sign bit and 11 bit exponent.
64 integer = 64bit mantissa, no exponent.

That means that theoretically the 64-bit integer has more "real
dynamic" - but practically there is no difference. You won't
hear it - and it doesn't differ in accumulated rounding errors
also.
__________________
free mp3s + info: andy-enroe.de songs and weird stuff: enroe.de
enroe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.