Can't MIDI's overall key signature be set?

[dangguidan]

Can't MIDI's overall key signature be set?
Although the five-line spectrum window can input the key signature, after MIDI is exported, the input key signature disappears.

[hopi]

what is the 5 line spectrum window? no idea what you are talking about

[Icchan]

MIDI has no key signature. (read the specification, since you'd do yourself a favor understanding what MIDI really is about, too few musicians have any proper grasp on the basics of a protocol they use daily... which is weird)

the "5-line spectrum window" you're referring to the "Notation editor" or "Notation view" of underlying MIDI-data.

It's nothing more than an abstraction layer and when you export the MIDI, you're stripping away any functionality that's not supported by MIDI, and one of them being a concept of "Key signature".

MIDI is open ended, so it can have data in it to signify Key signature, but it would need the software/hardware that interprets the MIDI to be set up to use that particular piece of data as a "key center".

[hopi]

oh I see... it means the Notation View only... 5 line notation staff...

OK I see what the OP is asking now... so what he could do, is name his midi files to include the key sig and then
set that in reaper

and yes, neither xml nor .mid hold the key sig. as far as I can see

[schwa]

There is actually a MIDI specification for key signature. If you set the key signature using the REAPER notation editor and then export a .mid file, the key signature should be embedded in the .mid file.

[hopi]

oh thanks schwa.... I did try that but was confused by the result but now I know better...
does it work for xml the same way?

[dangguidan]

Originally Posted by schwa

There is actually a MIDI specification for key signature. If you set the key signature using the REAPER notation editor and then export a .mid file, the key signature should be embedded in the .mid file.

The problem now is that key signature has been inserted into the notation editor, but after MIDI exports, all this information has been lost.

[schwa]

The key signature should be embedded in the exported .mid file. Would you care to attach one of the exported MIDI files?

[dangguidan]

Midi and screenshots were uploaded, and key signature was still not seen in other sequencers.

[schwa]

Thanks for posting the file. Could you post the .RPP as well?

[dangguidan]

Sorry, the MIDI was not saved before.
I redesigned an RPP and inserted four key signatures, set to A B C D.

[dangguidan]

I also uploaded a correct MIDI file, key signatures set to A B C D.

[schwa]

This is a bit obscure, but I think the problem is this: if you have MIDI editor View > Notation view options > Key signatures > Key signature changes affect all tracks enabled, then key signature changes are stored with the project. If that preference is disabled, then key signature changes are stored with the track. If key signature changes are stored with the project, they will only be exported when you choose File > Export project MIDI from the main REAPER menu. If key signature changes are stored with the track, they will only be exported when you choose File > Export to new MIDI file from the MIDI editor menu.

I think we should probably change this on our side so the key signatures are exported in all combinations of preferences and export methods.

[hopi]

yes plz schwa.... it would seem to make much more sense when exporting the MIDI file, that it included the key signatures used regardless of other reaper settings.... isn't true that then we would just not need other settings?

[Icchan]

@Schwa, dang it, thanks for correcting me. I had completely glossed over meta data fields in the .mid file itself... that's true. the key signature has a support as system exclusive message as well... and I forgot that completely.

Thank you and sorry about me spreading misinformation. I really should have dealt more with MIDI-files instead of the raw protocol itself (I'm mostly dealing with MIDI in embedded electronics systems)

Thanks and sorry about that ;D

[dangguidan]

Originally Posted by schwa

This is a bit obscure, but I think the problem is this: if you have MIDI editor View > Notation view options > Key signatures > Key signature changes affect all tracks enabled, then key signature changes are stored with the project. If that preference is disabled, then key signature changes are stored with the track. If key signature changes are stored with the project, they will only be exported when you choose File > Export project MIDI from the main REAPER menu. If key signature changes are stored with the track, they will only be exported when you choose File > Export to new MIDI file from the MIDI editor menu.

I think we should probably change this on our side so the key signatures are exported in all combinations of preferences and export methods.

If key signature changes affect all tracks is disabled, the input key signature can be seen in the event list, the exported MIDI format 0 can be seen, but MIDI format 1 can't.
When key signature changes affect all tracks enabled, the input key signature cannot be seen in the event list, and the exported MIDI does not even have MIDI format 0.

[dangguidan]

I made a mistake. Sorry!
If you set key signature changes affect all tracks is disabled, it can be exported correctly.
But it can't be read in cakewalk 9. This is the problem of cakewalk.