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Old 08-07-2022, 07:57 AM   #1
BbAltered
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Default I Am Truly Struggling to Learn/Use Reaper

Hello. I have been using Cakewalk/Sonar since it was midi-only - and over the years have been able to successfully complete multi-track recording projects involving live instruments, VST instruments, and midi.

I have spent the last 4-6 months using Reaper with the manual open on my desktop, and so far all I have been able to do is record individual audio and midi tracks. Every time I try and do anything in Reaper, I get strange unexpected results that I cannot resolve either by looking in the manual or asking questions on the forum.

Yesterday, I tried using Take Lanes to record multiple versions of the same piece of music. In one instance, a take would play back, then go intermittently silent for a few seconds (tho' playback continued), then recommence sounding. I have no idea why this happened, there is nothing I can find in the manual to describe or fix this, and I can barely even describe the problem to ask a question in the forum.

I did ask a question about Automatic Crossfades appearing on my Take Lanes after I had done Preferences/Project/Media Items and turned OFF Automatic Crossfades. I asked this question in the forum here and got no replies helpful or otherwise.

Where do I go for help? How do I use this program when I continually experience unexpected behaviors not described in the manual? Right now, using the program is for me very frustrating and I have zero confidence that I can use the program to successfully complete a rudimentary project. I mostly feel like I should give up on Reaper and go back to Cakewalk.

For reference, I completed a 4-year college degree and a 4 year graduate degree, so I have proven I can learn a piece of software. And I completed a complete 12 song album or original material using Sonar, so I know the basics of digital audio. For whatever reason, I have so far completely failed to grok Reaper. Either that or the program is simply misbehaving.
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Old 08-07-2022, 09:08 AM   #2
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I'm sorry to hear you're having so much trouble.

It may not be the answer you're looking for, but when I started using Reaper, I found lanes and all the options/preferences that go with them to be confusing. Having worked with multi-track tape since the 80's, I prefer to use tracks. If I want to do multiple takes of a part, I create multiple tracks (usually in a folder), and then mute (or delete) all but the best track (or cut the best pieces out of each item, and glue them together into one good take).

I fall into the "I only use a fraction of what Reaper has to offer" category, mostly because I tend to think "How would I do this if I were using a tape deck and outboard gear?" and then set it up like that in Reaper, even if Reaper has some fancier way of doing it internally. Over time I adopt new ways of doing things, but only after I understand how to do it my "traditional" way, and then really dedicate some time to learning and understanding a better way.

After using Reaper for 15+ years, I use lanes some, but I still prefer tracks. BTW, lanes are getting some love in the development releases, so good stuff is coming.

You may already be doing this, but when I was learning Reaper I made hundreds of little "test" projects to see how certain things worked. I kept copious notes (in a notebook, in text files in the test project directory, and on sticky notes in the manuals back when I used to print manuals on paper) about what I learned from each project until those things became ingrained in my knowledge base. I look back at a lot of those projects, and think "Did I really have a problem understanding that?" -- but at the time it wasn't perfectly clear, so yes, I did have problems understanding simple stuff, mostly because it was just new ideas. And sometimes when I'm having a problem with a VST I haven't used in a while, looking back at the test projects I made for that VST helps me figure it out again.
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Last edited by lunker; 08-07-2022 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 08-07-2022, 09:52 AM   #3
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Given your decades of experience with music production and your use of one DAW in particular. I think your problem might be that you're too used to Sonar, and struggling to unlearn all of the habits you built up using it. One of the keys to proficiency is pushing yourself in different directions, avoiding comfort zones, and it may be that by sticking with Sonar for so long, you've built up too much intellectual and muscle memory with it, and it's impeding your ability to move on.

In the end, if you can make great music with Sonar, I see no reason for you to switch to Reaper just because. Learning new tools is vital, but why not for instance stick with Sonar and learn a new set of VSTs instead? That way you can perhaps attain the optimum balance between keeping what works and learning new things.

I would say to persevere with Reaper, but if you're still struggling after this many months, despite your education, it might be best to revert to Sonar.
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Old 08-07-2022, 10:56 AM   #4
BbAltered
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Thank You Lunker and Frown for your replies.

Here are two examples of my experience with Reaper
1) Instantiate a soft synth on a track, and try to play soft synth from my midi keyboard. No sound comes from soft synth. By interacting with the soft synth interface, I can get the soft synth to make sounds (proves soft synth can produce audio in Reaper). I then use my midi keyboard to record midi data onto a new track (proves the midi keyboard is properly connected to Reaper and properly sends midi data). I then use the midi data I have recorded to drive the soft synth; the soft synth produces the correct audio in response to the midi track (proves the soft synth can respond to midi data and can produce audio). Yet despite this, I cannot get the soft synth to respond to live playing from the midi keyboard. Where do I look in the manual to resolve this problem? - browsing thru the manual, I see nothing that helps me solve this problem. I ask a question to the Reaper forum. No one responds.

2) I create a new project and one new track on it. I record four passes of the same music in the one track, creating four take lanes. I check the playback of each take lane and all four play back perfectly. I save the project and go have lunch. After lunch, I check the playback of each take lane. Takes 1, 2, and 3 all playback perfectly. Take 4 playback now has 1-2 sec of silence in the middle of it: audio, then silence, then audio. I just heard this take 4 playback perfectly an hour ago. The only thing I did to the project in the space of that hour was to save it. Again, as I browse thru the manual, I can find nothing to help me resolve this problem. I didn't bother querying the forum because simply describing the nature of the problem fully would produce a post so long no one would bother to read it.

This is my repeated experience with Reaper: trying to complete a limited task, getting an unexpected result for which I can find no explanation in the manual, and not being able to complete the task I started out to do. This is very frustrating, and sadly completely non-productive.

After a number of months of experiencing these and other problems, I am starting to conclude the program is either misbehaving (a lot), or so complex that I am unable to make use of it (despite successful experience using another DAW software).

I am sort of coming around to Frown's point: if using Reaper is frustrating and unsuccessful, I should stop using it.

As far as I can tell, Reaper makes no help to users beyond the manual and the forum and video. There are no knowledgeable users or staff I can call or do an online chat with, when something unexpected occurs. More often than not, I get no responses to the queries I post on the Reaper forum.

If anyone knows any other resources for using Reaper successfully, I appreciate all suggestions.

(Lunker - the reason I prefer using Take Lanes is because when recording myself, I will often make 10-20 passes to get the best possible performance. Having to create 10-20 new tracks to accommodate each "take" is busy-work I can avoid if Take Lanes are available. As a work-around, yes of course I can make redundant new tracks for each new "take". Given what I have experienced from Reaper Take Lanes so far, that is how I will have to proceed when recording in Reaper. FWIW, Cakewalk's version of Take Lanes allows the user to Mute, Solo, adjust volume and pan position, of each take - functionality that goes far beyond what I have so far seen in Reaper.)

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for reading.
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Old 08-07-2022, 11:21 AM   #5
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For #1, it sounds like you need to turn on "record monitoring" so that the VSTi sees the MIDI while you record it. This is a common problem that comes up at least once a year on the forum, so hopefully it is as simple as turning on record monitoring.

Section 13.2 of the manual mentions using record monitoring to monitor MIDI input. I'm not sure I would have known to look there if I were a brand new user. Which leads me to ...

One thing I do (and this might not be for everyone) is read manuals cover-to-cover like a novel. That way, I get familiar with many different concepts and details even if I don't need them yet. I take notes while I am reading, too -- comments and questions like "Does this apply to ...?" or "See if this works when I ..." Then when I run into a problem, I recall that it was mentioned somewhere in the manual, and I can go look for it. Sometimes I get lucky, and see that I already answered the question in my notes or a test project.

I do the same with the videos (Kenny's, Reaper blog, etc.) -- I watch them even if they aren't something I'm using right now. Sometimes I learning something that turns out to be useful immediately, just because I wasn't aware of it yet. And sometimes I just store the information away, and then when I get into that situation, I remember it was discussed in a video (and hopefully can find which video it was in).


#2 sounds strange -- if it was working fine and all you truly did was save it and walk away for a while. Perhaps you did something so small that it wasn't noteworthy enough to remember doing. Sometimes if I check the undo history, I see I did something I didn't realize was important.

I wonder if you post a small project, if someone can help diagnose the problem.

Have you gone through all the preferences for how items in lanes behave? There might be something in there that helps.

That's another thing I do (again, might not be for everyone) -- I went through all the preferences and project settings (a) to see what options are available, and (b) to try out what each option does. I learned a lot by doing that, and I configured Reaper to do things the way I want. And if I run into issue, I remember that there was a preference for it (e.g., how overlapping items take precedence or mix together).
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Last edited by lunker; 08-07-2022 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 08-07-2022, 12:20 PM   #6
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I may have read you wrong
However
Softsynth
If I am right I would say you are getting a track and bringing in a soft synth ? instrument to that track?
If you want a synth/instrument , Melodyne, BFD3 you best do it this way
select
"Virtual Instrument on New Track" to bring it in.
As Lunker says right click on the record button and make sure( up the top ) that the monitor is on. The instrument should already have the record buttom switched on if it is not cursor it on.

If I may, reading your ( Reaper is at fault screed ) this came across to me as though you really have not read and understood the manual.
Another thing, Reaperites are very free with their help do not despair they will help you if you do not alienate them.

Difficulties.
When you open Reaper you are met with what you see as a pretty well blank page.
( I will say this perhaps the DEVs could write into Reaper a standard session setup say Vocal tracks, Bass tracks, one instrument track, Drum track, lead guitar track and
Rhythm Guitar track.)

The above threw me until I learned how to set up my own project.
This is the first thing you need to learn how to set up a project, after practice it does not take long.
You need to get your tracks for every instrument you intend to have in your production.
You have to save the project to the automatic place in your (C) drive this will go to the right place when you "save as" it with your project name.
Next you have to go to "Project Settings" this is up the top of the page and set your Beats per minute and the place your wave files will go to, (You will have made a spot for this on one of your hard drives before this named with your project name). You need to set Bit rate and Sample rate here as well and then you will be good to go.

Now I hope I have not put in the right stuff here.
Take a breath and start again learn how to set up your Reaper and things will become clearer.
Reaper I use like a tape recorder just remember setting up is a necessity if the song/tune
in your head disappears because you take too long setting up your Reaper it probably was not going to be great anyway.

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Old 08-07-2022, 12:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BbAltered View Post
If anyone knows any other resources for using Reaper successfully, I appreciate all suggestions.
REAPER Mania and The REAPER Blog (on YouTube) are worth checking out. They have lots and lots of videos, covering a vast array of features within Reaper.
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Old 08-07-2022, 03:41 PM   #8
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"Cakewalk's version of Take Lanes allows the user to Mute, Solo, adjust volume and pan position, of each take - functionality that goes far beyond what I have so far seen in Reaper.)"

One point I just learned last week. Once you record multiple takes in your track/lane, click "explode takes to individual tracks" and you instantly have your takes each in its own track with all track features and functions engaged. As I am not at my system now I may be a bit off with the exact wording but you get the picture.

Sorry to hear your issues with Reaper. This community is very helpful so I suggest not giving up on us yet. Good luck!
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Old 08-07-2022, 04:47 PM   #9
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So ggrey
DO I take it that what you are saying is that you can adjust Vol, Pan etc on each take on the same track without interfering with the next wave file on the same track?
Does it have it's own house so to speak?

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Old 08-07-2022, 07:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BbAltered View Post
This is my repeated experience with Reaper: trying to complete a limited task, getting an unexpected result for which I can find no explanation in the manual, and not being able to complete the task I started out to do. This is very frustrating, and sadly completely non-productive.
I'm sorry to read that you are encountering so many problems, and sympathise with your frustration.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to document in the User Guide events that by their very nature are unexpected and unpredictable. There is, however, an Appendix which troubleshoots typical issues that new users sometimes encounter. However, since you say that nothing in the manual has been able to help you I presume that you have already checked these out without success.

My first thought is that your problem could be with how your audio interface interacts with REAPER in some way. You don't say whether you are using your computer's internal soundcard or an external one (such as Focusrite, Presonus, etc). It would be helpful to know this.

Not knowing what equipment you have, I can only speak in general terms. I'd suggest the following:

- Check your Options, Preferences, Audio device settings. Not knowing what equipment you have, I can't be certain what these should be, but in most cases you should be using ASIO and your soundcard's drivers (if any). All required inputs/outputs should be enabled.

Check especially sample rate and block size. Is your sound card perhaps set to a different sample rate from your audio settings? Also, have you installed the most recent drivers?

Another possibility is that something is happening/has happened with one particular take at one particular spot on the timeline.

Does it happen during playback always just at this one place, every time, nowhere else? Are the peaks (waveforms visible at this location? Have you made any track/item modifications that might cause it, eg automation envelopes?

These are just some ideas that might or might not help.

Think of it like going to a doctor. If you go to your doctor and just say, I've been sick, she's not going to be able to help you much unless you give her as much information as you can to enable a diagnosis.

For problems such as this, the more factual information you are able to provide, the more likely it is that someone will be able to help you.
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Last edited by nicholas; 08-07-2022 at 11:28 PM. Reason: extra suggestions
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Old 08-07-2022, 08:56 PM   #11
bigtop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BbAltered View Post
Hello. I have been using Cakewalk/Sonar since it was midi-only - and over the years have been able to successfully complete multi-track recording projects involving live instruments, VST instruments, and midi.

I have spent the last 4-6 months using Reaper with the manual open on my desktop, and so far all I have been able to do is record individual audio and midi tracks. Every time I try and do anything in Reaper, I get strange unexpected results that I cannot resolve either by looking in the manual or asking questions on the forum.

Yesterday, I tried using Take Lanes to record multiple versions of the same piece of music. In one instance, a take would play back, then go intermittently silent for a few seconds (tho' playback continued), then recommence sounding. I have no idea why this happened, there is nothing I can find in the manual to describe or fix this, and I can barely even describe the problem to ask a question in the forum.

I did ask a question about Automatic Crossfades appearing on my Take Lanes after I had done Preferences/Project/Media Items and turned OFF Automatic Crossfades. I asked this question in the forum here and got no replies helpful or otherwise.

Where do I go for help? How do I use this program when I continually experience unexpected behaviors not described in the manual? Right now, using the program is for me very frustrating and I have zero confidence that I can use the program to successfully complete a rudimentary project. I mostly feel like I should give up on Reaper and go back to Cakewalk.

For reference, I completed a 4-year college degree and a 4 year graduate degree, so I have proven I can learn a piece of software. And I completed a complete 12 song album or original material using Sonar, so I know the basics of digital audio. For whatever reason, I have so far completely failed to grok Reaper. Either that or the program is simply misbehaving.

The REAPER user guide is great but it's nearly 450 pages. I sometimes go a bit cross eyed myself if I dive in too deep.

Seeing is believing and I think if you watch the Kenny Gioia videos you will get to grips with REAPER faster than you think.

I would start with "This is REAPER 6" series.

Please don't despair. REAPER is a great DAW and very stable. But like everything else in life, "practice makes perfect".
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Old 08-07-2022, 11:40 PM   #12
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More often than not, I get no responses to the queries I post on the Reaper forum.
I'm calling you out on this, because this accusation is simply untrue and insulting to the REAPER community, and in particular those forum members who have sought to help you.

You have started, to date, a total of 19 threads. In sixteen cases you received responses and help.

Of the three cases where you received no response, two were specifically with regard to a particular plug-in, Stylus.

Sorry, but I'm out of this thread....
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Last edited by nicholas; 08-08-2022 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 08-08-2022, 09:53 AM   #13
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Thanks to all who wrote in. I appreciate your support and your helpful suggestions.

I took some time yesterday to browse thru the Reaper website, and reaquainted myself with Kenny Gioia's series of videos. I hadn't previously given these any attention, but browsing a few made think I have been going at the learning process in an inefficient manner, and these videos can be a big help to me. So I am feeling a little more hopeful today about learning and using Reaper than I have recently.

I'm going to do some more studying, and I will report back on my progress.

Thanks again.
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Old 08-08-2022, 12:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BbAltered View Post
Thanks to all who wrote in. I appreciate your support and your helpful suggestions.

I took some time yesterday to browse thru the Reaper website, and reaquainted myself with Kenny Gioia's series of videos. I hadn't previously given these any attention, but browsing a few made think I have been going at the learning process in an inefficient manner, and these videos can be a big help to me. So I am feeling a little more hopeful today about learning and using Reaper than I have recently.

I'm going to do some more studying, and I will report back on my progress.

Thanks again.
Kenny is the Patron Saint of Reaper. Pat close attention to Kenny. Also, think about setting up a template once you have your settings in a way that works for you. That will make your life A LOT easier.

One of the greatest things about reaper is the amount of enthusiastic help you get from the community. It's really like no other.

Hang in there, bud.
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