Old 06-24-2022, 03:21 PM   #1
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Default Saving an MP4 in Reaper?

What I've got is a video camera that records MP4s at 60fps.

How can I edit it in Reaper, then save it so I can take those edits to another video editing software, without loosing any video quality?

I just started using the camera and am pretty ignorant on these matters.
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Old 06-24-2022, 07:32 PM   #2
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Drag the mp4 into a reaper track

View->Video

Edit in reaper if needed ....

Render specifying the format and options as:
MPEG-4/Windows Media
Frame Rate set to 60
Size as appropriate ex: 1920x1080
etc
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Old 06-24-2022, 07:43 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne View Post
Drag the mp4 into a reaper track

View->Video

Edit in reaper if needed ....

Render specifying the format and options as:
MPEG-4/Windows Media
Frame Rate set to 60
Size as appropriate ex: 1920x1080
etc
Thank you Jacksoon, I understand about some of the basics like draging in and so forth.

Setting the frame rate was one one of the things I hadn't thought of as of yet.

What I want to end up with is an MP4 of the same quality that I loaded into Reaper. Do I need to use Handbrake for this, I have used that many times in the past?
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Old 06-25-2022, 08:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
What I want to end up with is an MP4 of the same quality that I loaded into Reaper. Do I need to use Handbrake for this, I have used that many times in the past?
Anybody?
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Old 06-25-2022, 09:28 PM   #5
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As per my previous post:

After rendering you should have the same resolution and quality as the imported mp4, so long as you set the render parameters to the same as the source video.

Cheers,
Roy
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Old 06-25-2022, 11:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne View Post
As per my previous post:

After rendering you should have the same resolution and quality as the imported mp4, so long as you set the render parameters to the same as the source video.

Cheers,
Roy
Thanks again Roy.

So basically it would be something like this, other then the "Size", it will be a little different?



Will I have to use Handbrake with it?
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Old 06-26-2022, 11:26 AM   #7
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Correct Tod, that is where you select the video type and options.

You shouldn't need to use handbrake
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Old 06-26-2022, 01:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne View Post
Correct Tod, that is where you select the video type and options.

You shouldn't need to use handbrake
Okay, thanks Roy, There is some editing I want to do in Reaper, but mainly I want to use it to sync the audio.
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Old 06-26-2022, 05:35 PM   #9
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One thing to remember is that if you select QT/MOV/MP4 as the render format, you will need to ensure the output file name extension is set to one the three types .qt, or, .mov, or .mp4

Last edited by jacksoonbrowne; 06-26-2022 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne View Post
One thing to remember is that if you select QT/MOV/MP4 as the render format, you will need to ensure the output file name extension is to one the three types .qt, or, .mov, or .mp4
Aah okay, I didn't realize that Reaper could render MP4s, is this fairly new?

Thanks again Roy for sticking with me.
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Aah okay, I didn't realize that Reaper could render MP4s, is this fairly new?

Thanks again Roy for sticking with me.
I don't think MP4 is new, but I have no idea when Cockos added MP4 support to reaper.

I'll stick with you Tod until you achieve what you want
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Old 06-26-2022, 10:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne View Post
I don't think MP4 is new, but I have no idea when Cockos added MP4 support to reaper.

I'll stick with you Tod until you achieve what you want
Okay Roy, here's what I'm going on from the sticky to this thread. We used to have to use Handbrake to create MP4 video files, but maybe we don't now. I've highlighted much of what I used to use.

Quote:
The free FFMPEG library included with Reaper can encode the following formats :
AVI container
DV video codec (not recommended
FFV1 video codec (lossless)
Huffyuv video codec (lossless)
16, 24 or 32-bit PCM audio

MKV container
FFV1 video codec (lossless)
Huffyuv video codec (lossless)
16, 24 or 32-bit PCM audio

Exporting to non-free formats like H264 in MP4 containers
MP4 video files use AAC audio content.
Many folkes use that when uploading to Youtube. Reapers video encoding speed is limited, unless you're using MacOS and the AVFoundation encoder.

For everyone else, it's easier to export to a free lossless format and then transcode that with the highly effective and fast free tool Handbrake.

Target format : MP4 container with H264 video and AAC audio

How to get there : Render lossless video and audio in Reaper and encode final MP4 with the free tool Handbrake.
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Old 06-26-2022, 10:57 PM   #13
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Hey Tod,

No need to use handbrake now as reaper render supports mp4
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Old 06-27-2022, 11:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne View Post
Hey Tod,

No need to use handbrake now as reaper render supports mp4
Okay, thanks a bunch Roy, that's good to know. I'll probably check it out today.
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Old 06-28-2022, 12:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne View Post
Hey Tod,

No need to use handbrake now as reaper render supports mp4
Hi again Roy, I updated Reaper and now I can see what you're talking about.

I used these setting to hopefully get a MP4 file but ended up with a MOV file.



I'm not sure it matters, the MOV file had the quality I needed and I assume it's just as good, but I'm curious, what settings should I use to get a MP4 file?
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Old 06-28-2022, 02:14 PM   #16
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To get an MP4 you must set the extension on the render file name to .mp4
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Old 06-28-2022, 02:53 PM   #17
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just tried... so cool... no handbrake needed anymore
Thanks.
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Old 06-28-2022, 08:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne View Post
To get an MP4 you must set the extension on the render file name to .mp4
Aah, okay, I wonder if it matters whether it's MOV or MP4, the quality is probably the same, the destination is probably the most important factor.
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Old 06-28-2022, 09:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Aah, okay, I wonder if it matters whether it's MOV or MP4, the quality is probably the same, the destination is probably the most important factor.
I have never compared quality of .mov vs .mp4

You may have to empirically determine what works best for you.

Cheers,
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Old 06-28-2022, 09:15 PM   #20
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Also,

.mov is kind of archaic.

.mp4 is much more used and supported.
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Old 06-28-2022, 09:17 PM   #21
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While the MP4 format is based on the QTFF format utilized by MOV files, there are noteworthy differences between MP4 and MOV files. One difference is that MOV files are typically higher in quality and file size than MP4 files. Another difference is that MOV files are not as widely supported as MP4 files.
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Old 06-28-2022, 10:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksoonbrowne View Post
While the MP4 format is based on the QTFF format utilized by MOV files, there are noteworthy differences between MP4 and MOV files. One difference is that MOV files are typically higher in quality and file size than MP4 files. Another difference is that MOV files are not as widely supported as MP4 files.
Thanks Roy, that's all good to know, the MOV files I rendered with Reaper and used in my main video editor looked very good, and worked out quite well.

There ae times I like to just edit my video in Reaper and save in MP4 format, so thanks to you I know how to do that now.
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Old 06-29-2022, 11:07 AM   #23
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One point - So as you may know, MP4, MOV, and MKV are simply container formats (basically a software 'bucket' if you will) that can hold a variety of audio streams and codecs, video streams and codecs, subtitles, etc.

If you encode a video using, say, the H.264 video format, either the MP4 container or the MOV container will work and be identical quality since basically, you are putting the same video stream into a different 'bucket'. More info here: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/...ats/Containers

Unfortunately, Reaper does not have an option to "Mux" the original video with the audio, so you will be having generational loss since you are re-compressing the H264 or H265 video embedded in the MP4 container, back to whichever video codec you are compressing to. You can use Media Info to find out what the actual video codec is being used in the original file here:
https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo

If you are OK with generational loss then it's fine to re-compress, however, if you are trying to archive the original video, edit it in a different program, or upload it to YouTube or similar (which would then re-compress the video yet again leading to further generational loss), the best thing to do would be to use a program such as StaxRip once you have the audio synched and rendered in Reaper:
https://www.videohelp.com/software/StaxRip

StaxRip is free, a portable app, FAR more advanced than Handbrake, but still pretty easy to use. Once you get the audio synced up and rendered out at 48kHz, you would simply open StaxRip and drag the Original video onto the Source area. Once StaxRip is done scanning the file, on the right side of the program you'll click on the blue text "x265" which will open a dropdown menu. Then you would select "Copy/Mux" instead of the x265 codec.

Next, you would right-click on the first Audio box and click Open File (or if you see an audio file already loaded you should be able to just click on it which should open an explorer pane). You would then navigate to where your rendered audio is saved, select it, and hit OK. Then simply click "Accept/Next" which will open the StaxRip Jobs pane, and hit "Start". This would keep the original video portion of the file intact without recompressing and would Mux the Audio and Video streams into the container of your choice. This will also take FAR less time than trying to recompress the already-compressed video; basically, you'll only be limited by the speed of your hard drive.
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Old 06-29-2022, 12:18 PM   #24
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Quote:
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One point - So as you may know, MP4, MOV, and MKV are simply container formats (basically a software 'bucket' if you will) that can hold a variety of audio streams and codecs, video streams and codecs, subtitles, etc.
Thank you very much Lynx, for your extensive and informative reply, I will be taking a very close look at these options.

I'm using a very nice video camera and I'd like to preserve as much quality as possible.
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Old 01-07-2024, 08:25 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
How can I edit it in Reaper, then save it so I can take those edits to another video editing software, without loosing any video quality?
Strictly speaking, "without loosing any video quality" is simply not possible (not just with Reaper, but with anything).

The video codecs used in mp4 (an most other formats) are LOSSY (like jpeg for images, or mp3, aac and the likes for audio).

Thus, each and every time that you decode a video (to be able to edit or applying any kind of processing to it) and then re-encode the finished video, you will unavoidably produce some data loss. That is, some quality degradation.

(same goes for audio, when using lossy codecs).

That said, as far as you keep the same video resolution, the same (or an appropriate) frame-rate and use a good codec with proper settings for the rendering, the quality loss due to such decoding and re-encoding will be minimal (should be practically imperceptible).

AFAIK, to date the best video codec is h265. Unfortunately, while the underlying software used by Reaper for video (ffmpeg/libav and VLC) does support h265, currently Reaper does not offer that option.

Thus, to date the best codecs supported by Reaper for rendering videos are VP9 (available in WebM container) and h264 (available in mov/mp4/qt or MKV container).

With h264, for best quality you may want to increase the bit rate setting WRT to the default proposed by Reaper.

There are also a few lossless video formats available, FFV1 or Huffyuv in Matroska container (MKV) and LCF, but of course they produce tremendous bit-rates, that is HUGE files.

They are practically unusable as-is, but are the best option as an intermediate temporary file if you need to do any further video processing or format conversion using another software (e.g. if you plan to use something like "Handbrake" or directly ffmpeg from the command line to encode the final video using a format and/or codec combination not currently offered by Reaper.

BTW: I hope that they will add full h265 support to Reaper ASAP...
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Old 01-08-2024, 05:51 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMS67 View Post
Strictly speaking, "without loosing any video quality" is simply not possible (not just with Reaper, but with anything).
So... That's actually not true. If Reaper supported stitching existing video together based on keyframes and ONLY encoded the frames needed between the keyframes in the cut, and MUXed the result together, you have zero generational loss, except if there's a cut between keyframes and those frames needed to be re-encoded. There's already some software that does this, just not in the way he needs. Reaper could absolutely do it though, the other software uses FMPEG as well, I'm 99% sure. It's been a while, I'll see if I can find it.
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Old 01-09-2024, 06:29 AM   #27
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Reaper could absolutely do it though, the other software uses FMPEG as well, I'm 99% sure. It's been a while, I'll see if I can find it.
Here's one of them, this wasn't the one I was thinking of but you get the idea:

https://github.com/mifi/lossless-cut

If they were to implement this idea in Reaper, Basically, Reaper or FMPEG would look at your video cut, scan to find the next keyframe, and then only re-encode those frames at, say, q10, before the next keyframe, and after the last keyframe, while copying the rest of the video. They could call it "Smart Rendering" or something on the dropdown.

EDIT: Ahh, found it, here you go:

https://www.fame-ring.com/smart_cutter.html

I'm not sure if it's using FMPEG or proprietary software, but it's a proof of concept that it is possible to do what I detailed above.
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