Control Surface Integration (CSI) Technical Feature Discussion

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by mattrglenn

I've been running only Reaper and EuControl when doing tests (plus TextEdit for making alterations to the .mst or .zon files.)

My instinct is that the CSI side of things is working ok. The data from the surface is getting to Reaper (below is the text from the ReaScript console input window), it just seems like Reaper is not communicating back to EuControl. Is there anything I can do to test the reaper_csurf_eucon.dylib file? I'm using the version dated May 4, 2020.


ReaScript console input:

IN <- EuCon FaderTouch1  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon Select1  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon FaderDB1  -57.688000  
IN <- EuCon FaderDB1  -57.000000  
IN <- EuCon FaderDB1  -55.313000  
IN <- EuCon FaderDB1  -54.688000  
IN <- EuCon FaderDB1  -54.313000  
IN <- EuCon FaderDB1  -54.688000  
IN <- EuCon FaderDB1  -55.688000  
IN <- EuCon FaderTouch1  0.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanL_RotaryTouch1  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanL_Rotary1  -4.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanL_Rotary1  -7.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanL_Rotary1  -10.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanL_Rotary1  -14.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanL_Rotary1  -17.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanL_RotaryTouch1  0.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanL_RotaryTouch1  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanL_RotaryTouch1  0.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanR_Rotary1  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanR_Rotary1  -100.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanR_Rotary1  -100.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanR_Rotary1  -99.000000  
IN <- EuCon PanR_Rotary1  0.000000  
IN <- EuCon Send_RotaryTouch1Ch1  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon Send_Rotary1Ch1  -144.500000  
IN <- EuCon Send_Rotary1Ch1  -92.000000  
IN <- EuCon Send_Rotary1Ch1  -90.000000  
IN <- EuCon Send_Rotary1Ch1  -88.000000  
IN <- EuCon Send_RotaryTouch1Ch1  0.000000  
IN <- EuCon Select1  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon RecordArm1  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon Solo1  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon Mute1  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon PostMessage  54521.000000  
IN <- EuCon Stop  1.000000  
IN <- EuCon Record  1.000000

Yeah, sure looks like incoming is good !

Feels like it's not picking up the .zon file.

One other long shot to be aware of.

When you specify a zone folder in CSI.ini, CSi will parse that folder and any and all subfolders, so don't put archive / test stuff in there -- it will be parsed too and may clobber your working setup.

[mattrglenn]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Yeah, sure looks like incoming is good !

Feels like it's not picking up the .zon file.

One other long shot to be aware of.

When you specify a zone folder in CSI.ini, CSi will parse that folder and any and all subfolders, so don't put archive / test stuff in there -- it will be parsed too and may clobber your working setup.

How does CSI locate the Zones folder that contains the .Zon files? I'm wondering if there is a chance that I have CSI.ini and the EuCon.zon file in a place that CSI can't find them properly — or, like Funkybot suggested, there is a permissions issue.

Currently CSI.ini is here:
Reaper resource folder → CSI → CSI.ini

EuCon.zon is here:
Reaper resource folder → CSI → Zones → EuCon → EuCon.zon

I've changed the entire Reaper resources folder and all of it's sub-folders/contents to have read & write access for "everyone".

More than happy to send files or run more tests ... thank you for your help!

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by mattrglenn

How does CSI locate the Zones folder that contains the .Zon files? I'm wondering if there is a chance that I have CSI.ini and the EuCon.zon file in a place that CSI can't find them properly — or, like Funkybot suggested, there is a permissions issue.

Currently CSI.ini is here:
Reaper resource folder → CSI → CSI.ini

EuCon.zon is here:
Reaper resource folder → CSI → Zones → EuCon → EuCon.zon

I've changed the entire Reaper resources folder and all of it's sub-folders/contents to have read & write access for "everyone".

More than happy to send files or run more tests ... thank you for your help!

Maybe check this out, particularly the bit on Zone folders and sub-folders in the first section: https://github.com/malcolmgroves/rea...face-Behaviour

You say where the EuCon.zon file is -- that's good -- but what else is in that folder / subfolders. that's the key here.

[mattrglenn]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Maybe check this out, particularly the bit on Zone folders and sub-folders: https://github.com/malcolmgroves/rea...face-Behaviour

You say where the EuCon.zon file is -- that's good -- but what else is in that folder / subfolders. that's the key here.

I've attached a picture with all contents of the CSI folder. I swept through the rest of the Reaper resources folder and couldn't find any duplicates of what you see here.

[mattrglenn]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Maybe check this out, particularly the bit on Zone folders and sub-folders in the first section: https://github.com/malcolmgroves/rea...face-Behaviour

You say where the EuCon.zon file is -- that's good -- but what else is in that folder / subfolders. that's the key here.

This might be a silly oversight on my part.... is there supposed to be a EuCon.mst file? I didn't see one in the install package so I assumed no.

[mattrglenn]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Maybe check this out, particularly the bit on Zone folders and sub-folders in the first section: https://github.com/malcolmgroves/rea...face-Behaviour

You say where the EuCon.zon file is -- that's good -- but what else is in that folder / subfolders. that's the key here.

Ah, I caught one other discrepancy after re-reading THIS.

When I am in the Control/OSC/Web preferences menu, if I try to add the CSI controller followed by the EuCon controller, Reaper instantly crashes/quits — however, if I add EuCon first then CSI it does not. Perhaps this points to a related issue?

[BryanAndrew]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Hey, glad to hear you're getting a setup going !

I noticed a strange one like that yesterday when testing something, but couldn't reproduce it.

Could you please post the .mst and .zon file contents, we'll see what's up

Here it is. Also, I haven't quite figured out how to get the feedback working yet either, so if you have any advice on that, I'll definitely take it. Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks

.mst

Widget Mode
Press B0 66 7F B0 66 00
FB_TwoState B0 66 7F B0 66 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Volume
Press B0 67 7F B0 67 00
FB_TwoState B0 67 7F B0 67 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Metronome
Press B0 68 7F B0 68 00
FB_TwoState B0 68 7F B0 68 00
WidgetEnd

Widget SnapGrid
Press B0 69 7F B0 69 00
FB_TwoState B0 69 7F B0 69 00
WidgeEnd

Widget Loop
Press B0 6A 7F B0 6A 00
FB_TwoState B0 6A 7F B0 6A 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Play
Press B0 6B 7F B0 6B 00
FB_TwoState B0 6B 7F B0 6B 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Record
Press B0 6C 7F B0 6C 00
FB_TwoState B0 6C 7F B0 6C 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Learn
Press B0 6D 7F B0 6D 00
FB_TwoState B0 6D 7F B0 6D 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Minus
Press B0 6E 7F B0 6E 00
FB_TwoState B0 6E 7F B0 6E 00
WidgetEnd

Widget Plus
Press B0 6F 7F B0 6F 00
FB_TwoState B0 6F 7F B0 6F 00
WidgetEnd

---------------------------------------------


.zon

Zone Home
IncludedZones
"Transport|"
IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd

Zone "Transport|"
SnapGrid Reaper 1157 //toggle snapping
Play Reaper 40044 //toggle play stop
Loop Reaper 1068 //toggle repeat
Metronome Reaper 40364 //toggle click on off
Record Record
ZoneEnd

----------------------------------------------------------------

-Bryan

[inertia]

Originally Posted by MixMonkey

Works here with:

RotaryPushD1 FXParam 5 [ 0.0 0.14 0.29 0.43 0.57 0.71 0.86 1.0 ]

Ah that's great! How did you figure out the values?

Also, is there a quick way to reload zone files on the fly without having to restart Reaper?

Thanks.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by mattrglenn

This might be a silly oversight on my part.... is there supposed to be a EuCon.mst file? I didn't see one in the install package so I assumed no.

Nope, it is auto-generated based on your config params.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by mattrglenn

Ah, I caught one other discrepancy after re-reading THIS.

When I am in the Control/OSC/Web preferences menu, if I try to add the CSI controller followed by the EuCon controller, Reaper instantly crashes/quits — however, if I add EuCon first then CSI it does not. Perhaps this points to a related issue?

Yeah, that's definitely backwards.

Just to be clear:
add CSI
add Eucon within CSI
step back out to the Reaper Add and Add EuCon

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by inertia

Ah that's great! How did you figure out the values?

Also, is there a quick way to reload zone files on the fly without having to restart Reaper?

Thanks.

You can run Action 41743, or go into CSi config Edit and hit OK.

[inertia]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

You can run Action 41743, or go into CSi config Edit and hit OK.

That works, but I have to reinsert the plugin (which isn't the end of the world).

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by inertia

That works, but I have to reinsert the plugin (which isn't the end of the world).

Yes, my procedure is:

1. Remove plugin
2. Refresh Surfaces action
3. Reinsert plugin

Still much better than restarting Reaper!

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by inertia

Ah that's great! How did you figure out the values?

There are 8 steps for the parameter in question, so there are 7 'spaces' between the steps. 1/7 = 0.143. Done (VST values are always a number between 0.00 and 1.00)

Actually, it can be more involved than that depending on the plugin, but that's the way I try first.

[Geoff Waddington]

Been thinking about a hole in the design, the ability to have multiple instances of the same FX on one Track.

Everything stays as it is, so no worries about having to go back and retrofit

This is just a Syntax addition.

Example of old FX Zone definition (that will still also work fine)

Zone "VST Some FX"
        RotaryA1 ActionForA1
        RotaryA2 ActionForA2
        RotaryA3 ActionForA3
        RotaryB1 ActionForB1

new style with:

Zone "VST Some FX|"
        RotaryA| ActionForA1
        RotaryA|+1 ActionForA2
        RotaryA|+2 ActionForA3
        RotaryB| ActionForB1

We can take this further to include Slot indices (A, B, C, etc.)

Zone "VST Some FX|"
        Rotary?| ActionForA1
        Rotary?|+1 ActionForA2
        Rotary?|+2 ActionForA3
        Rotary?+1| ActionForB1

This looks fairly scary but will allow use to have even better control over how things layout / interact, not to mention, if you have the control space, you can now map more than one instance of the same FX on the same Track -- just in a different set of slots.

And for those who are doing EuCon zones, hope you haven't gotten too far -- ducks -- we really should fix the nomenclature to match what we did with the C4 and all the pads, use a letter for the Pages, so:

	FX_Rotary2Ch2 	FXParam "0" "Thresh" "2"
	FX_Display2Ch2 	FXParamNameDisplay "0" "Thresh"

	FX_Rotary2Ch3 	FXParam "1" "Gain" "2"
	FX_Display2Ch3 	FXParamNameDisplay "1" "Gain"

	FX_Rotary3Ch7	FXParam "4" "Meter" "2"
	FX_Display3Ch7 	FXParamNameDisplay "4" "Meter"
[

becomes

	FX_RotaryB2 	FXParam "0" "Thresh" "2"
	FX_DisplayB2 	FXParamNameDisplay "0" "Thresh"

	FX_RotaryB3 	FXParam "1" "Gain" "2"
	FX_DisplayB3 	FXParamNameDisplay "1" "Gain"

	FX_RotaryC7	FXParam "4" "Meter" "2"
	FX_DisplayC7 	FXParamNameDisplay "4" "Meter"

much more consistent, and more readable too !

[Funkybot]

I'm totally with you on the proposed EuCon syntax changes. Glad they're happening early!

The regular fx.zon's I have some questions on.

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

This is just a Syntax addition.

Example of old FX Zone definition (that will still also work fine)

Zone "VST Some FX"
        RotaryA1 ActionForA1
        RotaryA2 ActionForA2
        RotaryA3 ActionForA3
        RotaryB1 ActionForB1

new style with:

Zone "VST Some FX|"
        RotaryA| ActionForA1
        RotaryA|+1 ActionForA2
        RotaryA|+2 ActionForA3
        RotaryB| ActionForB1

What's the benefit of the new syntax? I'm not connecting this to how this solves the problem of multiple instances on the same track.

I like this...

Zone "VST Some FX|"

...if that means, if there's 2, then CSI will now know that. But I'm not seeing what RotaryA|+1 buys us over saying RotaryA2.


I'm just thinking out loud here so feel free to ignore me if I'm not making sense but...

In my head, any time an fx gets activated (focusedFX, selectedTrack, ToggleMap, etc.) there should be some kind of index. First plugin is index 0, second plugin index 1, and if I have a chain like:

0. Gate
1. ReaComp
2. ReaEQ
3. ReaComp

So I'm thinking whenever an FX.zon gets activated, CSI should transparently know difference between ReaComp on Index #1 and ReaComp with Index #3. Hopefully that can be done realtime "on map action" and not something that would need to be stored. And I kind of think that's what you're trying to solve for with the changes above, which if so, I'm all in.

But when it comes to Eucon, I'd even go so far as to say EuCon's "slot" approach is silly overall, but it makes even less sense in Reaper than Pro-Tools where it may have some advantages (PT being able to know 'hey these are dynamics plugins let's pop open that menu when someone presses this button'). I think a much more transparent, user friendly approach is to map effects in the order they appear on the insert slots, even if EuCon. I'd say do what's best for CSI+Reaper+EuCon, and if something doesn't make sense in that context or can be done better, then change it to improve the CSI+Reaper+EuCon experience. Even if that means EuCon users needing to adjust (just my two cents).

Anyway, sorry for the rambling, messy thoughts. Just trying to wrap my head around things and having been an English major, that's how I was trained to do it.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Been thinking about a hole in the design, the ability to have multiple instances of the same FX on one Track.

Does this apply to the FXMenu/SelectedTrackNavigator? 'cos I seem to be able to have the same plugin in multiple FX slots at the moment. Which ever slot I select from the menu is the one that is controlled.

[MixMonkey]

Originally Posted by inertia

That works, but I have to reinsert the plugin (which isn't the end of the world).

It works for me if I just re-select the track, might be different for FocusedFXNavigator though.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I'm totally with you on the proposed EuCon syntax changes. Glad they're happening early!

The regular fx.zon's I have some questions on.



What's the benefit of the new syntax? I'm not connecting this to how this solves the problem of multiple instances on the same track.

I like this...

Zone "VST Some FX|"

...if that means, if there's 2, then CSI will now know that. But I'm not seeing what RotaryA|+1 buys us over saying RotaryA2.

It doesn't

The next part about the A,B,C,D solves that problem

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I'm just thinking out loud here so feel free to ignore me if I'm not making sense but...

In my head, any time an fx gets activated (focusedFX, selectedTrack, ToggleMap, etc.) there should be some kind of index. First plugin is index 0, second plugin index 1, and if I have a chain like:

0. Gate
1. ReaComp
2. ReaEQ
3. ReaComp

So I'm thinking whenever an FX.zon gets activated, CSI should transparently know difference between ReaComp on Index #1 and ReaComp with Index #3. Hopefully that can be done realtime "on map action" and not something that would need to be stored. And I kind of think that's what you're trying to solve for with the changes above, which if so, I'm all in.

Yes, we are on the same page here.

Originally Posted by Funkybot

But when it comes to Eucon, I'd even go so far as to say EuCon's "slot" approach is silly overall, but it makes even less sense in Reaper than Pro-Tools where it may have some advantages (PT being able to know 'hey these are dynamics plugins let's pop open that menu when someone presses this button'). I think a much more transparent, user friendly approach is to map effects in the order they appear on the insert slots, even if EuCon. I'd say do what's best for CSI+Reaper+EuCon, and if something doesn't make sense in that context or can be done better, then change it to improve the CSI+Reaper+EuCon experience. Even if that means EuCon users needing to adjust (just my two cents).

Anyway, sorry for the rambling, messy thoughts. Just trying to wrap my head around things and having been an English major, that's how I was trained to do it.

Who said slots have to be fixed like PT ?

This is meant to alleviate exactly that problem

Let's use the C4 as an example were you have 4 rows of 8 widgets
RotaryA1-RotaryA8
RotaryB1-RotaryB8
RotaryC1-RotaryC8
RotaryD1-RotaryD8

Let's say the first instance of the compressor is mapped to rows A & B and you want the the second compressor to map to rows C & D

From this template:

 Zone "VST Some FX|"
        Rotary?| ActionForA1
        Rotary?|+1 ActionForA2
        Rotary?|+2 ActionForA3
        Rotary?+1| ActionForB1
ZoeEnd

we get this for the first compressor

 Zone "VST Some FX|"
        RotaryA1 ActionForA1
        RotaryA2 ActionForA2
        RotaryA3 ActionForA3
        RotaryB1 ActionForB1
ZoeEnd

and this for the next compressor:

 Zone "VST Some FX|"
        RotaryC1 ActionForA1
        RotaryC2 ActionForA2
        RotaryC3 ActionForA3
        RotaryD1 ActionForB1
ZoeEnd

We need the wildcard "|" for channel and "?" for slot number, whatever those are for this Reaper FX instance.

That means we do away with dedicated slots and Reaper just adjusts accordingly, as you suggest.

[Funkybot]

That explanation clears it up for me. That sounds really, really terrific!

[Geoff Waddington]

OK, now that we have parameterized .zon files that understand “|” + offset, I think it leads to this:

The “|1-8” constructs are error prone and arcane, they always seemed out of place in the Zone files.

The fact that this:

Zone “SomeZone|"

means a template Zone that only gets instantiated within another Zone’s Included Zones, while this:

Zone “SomeZone|1-8"

means instantiate 8 real Zones has always been awkward, to say the least

Propose we drop the “|” altogether from the Zone line

Of, course, it will still appear like this in the actual body of the file as necessary:

Zone "Channel"
	TrackNavigator
	DisplayUpper|  	TrackNameDisplay
	DisplayLower| TrackPanDisplay
	TrackTouch+DisplayLower| TrackVolumeDisplay
	RotaryPush| GoZone PanWidth|
	Rotary| TrackPan “0"
	…
ZoneEnd

How about the number of Channels, Sends, FX ?

I think that should be set in the config, like we are now doing with EuCon.

What about things like the Pan and PanWidth Zones.

Propose a new construct:

Zone "Channel"
	TrackNavigator
	CompanionZones
		Pan
		PanWidth
	EndCompanionZones
	DisplayUpper|  	TrackNameDisplay
	DisplayLower| TrackPanDisplay
	TrackTouch+DisplayLower| TrackVolumeDisplay
	RotaryPush| GoZone PanWidth|
	Rotary| TrackPan “0"
	…
ZoneEnd

The number of Channel Zoness instantiated dictates the number of standalone Companion Zones that are constructed, because Pan and PanWidth appear within Channel’s Companion Zones.


As far as the FX loading one after the other, don’t think we need anything as scary as our last example, we just need this one:

Zone "VST Some FX|"
        RotaryA| ActionForA1
        RotaryA|+1 ActionForA2
        RotaryA|+2 ActionForA3
        RotaryB| ActionForB1
ZoneEnd

Any of the surfaces that have rows of controls (C4, Twister,etc.) should have .mst files that have the form:
RotaryA1
RotaryA2
RotaryB1
RotaryB2

From this CSI can deduce the replacements for A, B, C, D, etc.

The rule for engaging the replacement mechanism is simple — if it finds any “|” character at all, it performs parameter replacement.

Just thinking out loud...

[mattrglenn]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Yeah, that's definitely backwards.

Just to be clear:
add CSI
add Eucon within CSI
step back out to the Reaper Add and Add EuCon

Each time I add the surfaces in that correct order, Reaper crashes instantly.

I’m going to do a fresh re-install of reaper on another Mac machine to see if that fixes it. If it does, I’ll know there’s some extension or plugin on my machine in that is conflicting with the CSI or Eucon plugin.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Any of the surfaces that have rows of controls (C4, Twister,etc.) should have .mst files that have the form:
RotaryA1
RotaryA2
RotaryB1
RotaryB2

Just thinking out loud...

I definitely like where you're going.

Related to this, I keep thinking about how to redesign my Twister.mst (I'm so glad I didn't start). But I keep getting hung up on how best to name the widgets.

For instance, I might want to be able to do this in a zone [this isn't meant to be a syntax-example, just describing what I might want]:

RotaryA1-8 - TrackPan (Ch 1-8)
RotaryA9-16 - TrackVolume (Ch 1-8)

Would that be possible in the new paradigm? I almost feel like if you wanted to split up the surface that way, you might have to split up the naming convention used for the top two rows and bottom two rows, but then what's a good naming convention? I also thought about giving each row a unique Name. For example RowA 1-4 and RowB 1-4, etc.

I'm probably way overthinking the .mst.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by mattrglenn

Each time I add the surfaces in that correct order, Reaper crashes instantly.

I’m going to do a fresh re-install of reaper on another Mac machine to see if that fixes it. If it does, I’ll know there’s some extension or plugin on my machine in that is conflicting with the CSI or Eucon plugin.

You're using the EuCon files from here right:

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/37947/reaper_csurf_EuCon.zip

...not Geoff's older, pre-CSI Eucon implementation?

You almost certainly are but it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I definitely like where you're going.

Related to this, I keep thinking about how to redesign my Twister.mst (I'm so glad I didn't start). But I keep getting hung up on how best to name the widgets.

For instance, I might want to do (this isn't meant to be a syntax-example, just describing what I might want):

RotaryA1-8 - TrackPan (Ch 1-8)
RotaryA9-16 - TrackVolume (ch 1-8)

Would that be possible in the new paradigm? I almost feel like if you wanted to split up the surface that way, you might have to split up the naming convention used for the top two rows and bottom two rows, but then what's a good naming convention? I also thought about giving each row a unique Name. For example RowA 1-4 and RowB 1-4, etc.

I'm probably way overthinking the .mst.

I think the best overall way is going to be the natural way of the surface, but, of course, CSI let's you do what ever works best

Natural is:

RotaryA1-4
RotaryB1-4
RotaryC1-4
RotaryD1-4

[edit] Perhaps the best way to solve it is to get another Twister, then you get 4 rows of 8

[mattrglenn]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

You're using the EuCon files from here right:

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/37947/reaper_csurf_EuCon.zip

...not Geoff's older, pre-CSI Eucon implementation?

You almost certainly are but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Yep! All of the latest files from Geoff's May 5 upload. Worth checking though, I'd LOVE for the problem to be a simple, derpy oversight on my part

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

I think the best overall way is going to be the natural way of the surface, but, of course, CSI let's you do what ever works best

Natural is:

RotaryA1-4
RotaryB1-4
RotaryC1-4
RotaryD1-4

What would the syntax look look for...?

RotaryA1-4 assigned to TrackPan1-4
RotaryB1-4 assigned to TrackPan5-8

RotaryC1-4 assigned to TrackVolume1-4
RotaryD1-4 assigned to TrackVolume5-8

The MFTwister would have 16 rows worth of those due it's 4x4x4 nature (need to figure out the 16th letter of the alphabet), and that's not including the ShiftRotary widgets. If that would be possible then that works for me and I'll take it as a green light to get started on a more generic MFTwister.mst that uses that convention.

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

[edit] Perhaps the best way to solve it is to get another Twister, then you get 4 rows of 8

No desk space

But CJewellStudio has two and that may make sense for him.

[Funkybot]

I'm now thinking banks of 8 faders makes sense though it could be critiqued as kind of arbitrary considering the layout of the surface. But it allows you to split up the surface into top half and bottom half, while playing nicely with CSI. So the first two rows would be RotaryA1-8 and the bottom two rows RotaryB1-8. Then repeat for the next 3 banks. Might be the best compromise.

[mattrglenn]

Originally Posted by mattrglenn

Each time I add the surfaces in that correct order, Reaper crashes instantly.

I’m going to do a fresh re-install of reaper on another Mac machine to see if that fixes it. If it does, I’ll know there’s some extension or plugin on my machine in that is conflicting with the CSI or Eucon plugin.

I've now run the same test on two machines, one Mac and one PC. I did a fresh install of Reaper, EuControl, and the various CSI files.

Mac: If I try to add the "Control Surface Integrator" surface followed by "EuCon", Reaper still quits instantly. Mind you, no other DAWs are installed on the machine, and I deleted all zone files that are not EuCon.zon. As expected, the physical artist mix/transport surfaces do not receive any more data than before when I add the surfaces in reverse order.

PC: This is a bit more promising. The artist mix/transport are still not receiving data properly, but I am able to add CSI followed by EuCon in the control preferences. When I do, it opens a ReaScript console and outputs the following:

The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

I'm now thinking banks of 8 faders makes sense though it could be critiqued as kind of arbitrary considering the layout of the surface. But it allows you to split up the surface into top half and bottom half, while playing nicely with CSI. So the first two rows would be RotaryA1-8 and the bottom two rows RotaryB1-8. Then repeat for the next 3 banks. Might be the best compromise.

Yeah, that's what I'd do, things being generally in banks of eight.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by mattrglenn

I've now run the same test on two machines, one Mac and one PC. I did a fresh install of Reaper, EuControl, and the various CSI files.

Mac:
If I try to add the "Control Surface Integrator" surface followed by "EuCon", Reaper still quits instantly. Mind you, no other DAWs are installed on the machine, and I deleted all zone files that are not EuCon.zon.

OK, just to be sure, there are no other EuCon surfaces in the Page, yes ?

Now Add "Control Surface Integrator"

Now go into Control Surface Integrator and add a EuCon surface describing the num channels, etc.

Ok your way back.

Now add the EuCon surface.

3 steps
Add CSI
Add EuCon to CSI
Add EuCon to Reaper

Originally Posted by mattrglenn

[*]As expected, the physical artist mix/transport surfaces do not receive any more data than before when I add the surfaces in reverse order.


PC: This is a bit more promising. The artist mix/transport are still not receiving data properly, but I am able to add CSI followed by EuCon in the control preferences. When I do, it opens a ReaScript console and outputs the following:

The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added



The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones/EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added

Looks like duplicate Zone file problems.

Let's have another look at the CSI.ini that you are using.

[mattrglenn]

OK, just to be sure, there are no other EuCon surfaces in the Page, yes ?

Correct. Only the one.

3 steps
Add CSI
Add EuCon to CSI
Add EuCon to Reaper

Yes, this is the process I've been following. Reaper immediately quits when I hit ok on the last step.

Looks like duplicate Zone file problems.

Let's have another look at the CSI.ini that you are using.

Here's the complete text from the CSI.ini file:

Page "Home" FollowMCP NoSynchPages NoScrollLink NoTrackColoring { 0 0 0 }
EuConSurface "EuCon" 8 1 1 2 "EuCon" NoZoneLink

[Funkybot]

The Zone named "Home" is already defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon

 The new Zone named "Home" defined in file
 C:\Users\earsu\AppData\Roaming\REAPER/CSI/Zones//EuCon/EuCon.zon
 will not be added

Is it weird the slashes change direction from \ to / in those messages and some of them have double slashes before the .zon folder?

[Funkybot]

Geoff, are two different feedback processors on a single widget allowed yet? I remember this came up a few weeks back when CJewellStudios was asking but don't recall what the final verdict was.

Widget ButtonE1
    Press B1 20 7F B1 20 00
    FB_TwoState B1 20 7F B1 20 00
    FB_MFT_RGB B1 20 7F
WidgetEnd

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Geoff, are two different feedback processors on a single widget allowed yet? I remember this came up a few weeks back when CJewellStudios was asking but don't recall what the final verdict was.

Widget ButtonE1
    Press B1 20 7F B1 20 00
    FB_TwoState B1 20 7F B1 20 00
    FB_MFT_RGB B1 20 7F
WidgetEnd

It's not currently implemented, but is on the list.

[Geoff Waddington]

Just realized there is a far better way to do things internally (yup - another architecture change ).

It will make possible things we can't do now, and will be much more direct internally.

However, might not be around much for a bit, pretty grindy stuff

[ramjet1962]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Note the installation instruction state you need OSX 10.12 or newer, that is the first step.

After that, read the installation instructions that @Funkybot mentioned, get back to us if you have trouble, and very soon you'll be getting WAY more out of your setup

Uh-oh. This MAC that I have now is running OSX 10.11.6 and can't go any further than that.
I guess I will just have to muck around with what I have and be happy with that?

I just checked on the Apple support pages and I am running the latest OS that I can.

Oh, and even trying to follow the instructions in the link the Funkybot posted, I am not sure what to download from where?
It is official. I am too old for this. Now where is some pimply faced teen to help me?

[tdc]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Just realized there is a far better way to do things internally (yup - another architecture change ).

It will make possible things we can't do now, and will be much more direct internally.

However, might not be around much for a bit, pretty grindy stuff

Calling refactoring "feature-creep" or not is a hot topic of debate ;-) Though I always feel its definitely worth it.

[TVbene]

Originally Posted by TVbene

If I followed up correctly, LED feedback for indicating the active zone is still not closer to reality? When I looked at MixMonkey's "poor man's radio buttons" I remembered this idea by LDEVO a while ago: This way it's not about storing LED states and making sure only one is lit up but just about doing this manually with every button press. Just a LEDOn or LEDOff command followed by one or multiple FB_TwoState buttons.

Wouldn't this be a way for these cases where LED feedback is necessary and there's no corresponding Reaper parameter for it?

Hey Geoff, any opinion on that? My script for Playtime VST is working but it needs LED feedback for the currently active zone. Then I'd post this to the thread for Playtime and see if there is some interest. No problem if this topic is further down the agenda, of course.