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03-18-2020, 08:55 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: St Petersburg FL
Posts: 996
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Set compressor settings based on LUFS in multiple spots and have Reaper extrapolate?
I was watching a video the other day on mastering full-orchestrated classical music. The guy wondered out loud if we should master the quiet passages separate from the loud dynamic parts of a full orchestra to keep the same mastered sound throughout, and it got me thinking.
1. Is there a way to monitor the incoming LUFS of an audio signal in such a way to drive an automation curve (even if it's to analyze the signal in advance which would probably be more doable) and;
2. Is there a way to pick specific passages, adust your compressor to taste for that particular LUFS level (Fabfilter Pro C2 would be a great example), and then have Reaper extrapolate an automated adjustment curve based on those incoming LUFS levels that would smoothly change settings from levels preset at those specific LUFS levels?
3. If so, how would someone go about doing this?
The ability to do this would have some distinct advantages over things such as Waves MaxxVolume, which, while good at what it does, is kind of like using a rocket launcher. In essence, you end up with a minimally dynamic "FM Radio" sound when it comes to classical music. Great for voice, though!
I'm thinking along the lines of Karajan Gold. Currently, I'm using the following:
1. ReaFir at FFT window of 32,768 samples to generate a noise profile, then set that to Subtract
2. Gulfoss by Soundtheory low passed below 200hz to tame and recover lower bass frequencies
3. StereoTool to correct Azimuth, add micro-dynamics, some mild noise-gating, and de-clipping if needed.
5. Split off for processing bass
6. Waves Low Air to synthesize the deep bass usually missing from the Orchestra, directing that bass into a separate channel where I'm using serial compressors to shape it to exactly what I want, then mixing that signal back into the original.
7. Oeksound Soothe2 to tame resonant frequencies
[edit] forgot the volume rider step between 7 and 8 - currently using Waves Vocal Rider but StereoTool's built-in one works pretty well too.
8. Fabfilter C2 compressor (this is where I want to automate the curve)
9. Gulfoss by Soundtheory, the final pass
10. L2 limiter (just in case)
Step 8 is where it feels there are potentially significant improvements to be made. Everything currently sounds excellent, aside from that. Liquid smooth, a stable stereo image that translates well to surround, virtually no hiss remaining while keeping most of the highs.
Another idea was if it is possible to do the above, would it be possible to apply this technique to the entire FX chain? That ability could be extremely powerful
Last edited by Lynx_TWO; 03-20-2020 at 05:32 PM.
Reason: missed a step!
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03-18-2020, 09:16 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,161
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Not sure I would be looking to 'compressors' as the first choice.
Volume Automation would be my first process .... as in 'Riding the Fader', writing an automation track.
From there I would then consider Compressor [if needed].
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03-20-2020, 05:51 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
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I guess the "standard" [automatic] way of doing this would be a compressor with a long lookahead.
There's a bunch of auto gain riders out there - Meda do "MAGC" ewhich requires you to send a reference signal to it's sidechain, TB proAudio have "Dynaride", and ReaComp has a long lookahead preset.
Set them so your loud patch isn't boosted, but you get the lift you need on yr quiet parts.
[edit] but like RJHollins said, doing it "by hand" (writing some automation, rather) would probably be better.
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it's meant to sound like that...
Last edited by jrk; 03-20-2020 at 08:00 AM.
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03-20-2020, 05:23 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: St Petersburg FL
Posts: 996
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Well yes, but how would one go about writing automation from one setting to another depending on the loudness levels? That's the problem I'm trying to solve. i.e. set up your settings manually in different places, but also have something note what the LUFS levels are at that spot and go from there.
We are talking light compression here, no more than 1.4:1, and I'm not necessarily talking about riding a volume fader at this stage... That is already done to limit the dynamic range, but it's still too high of a range to simply throw one setting on there and let it go and there are still enough differences in volume level (which I want to keep) to justify different compressor threshold settings.
Someone mentioned side-chaining setting for volume leveling and tying automation to that which could work, but again, how would you make sure you are hitting the settings you want based on where the automation curve would be for the volume leveler, and then extrapolate between the different setups?
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03-21-2020, 11:06 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
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I have to say, I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here. If you want reaper to "extrapolate" compressor settings do you mean that Reaper should *learn* from a couple of example passages and then apply similar settings to similar passages?
*Or* do you mean that reaper should smoothly *interpolate* (?) settings between defined passages?
If the second, this is trivial to accomplish with automation.
Or is the issue one of automagically *identifying* passages which are relatively loud / quiet?
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
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03-21-2020, 11:29 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
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__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
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03-28-2020, 02:25 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,205
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For compression, this is kind of the main function of Trileveler 2 by Sonic anomaly.
Currently their website is down but you can grab their plugins on ReaPack:
https://github.com/Sonic-Anomaly/Son...ster/index.xml
Set LUFS target and disable the gate auto threshold and turn down the threshold so it doesn't gate at all.
Press the Config button to get to the controls for fast dynamics and medium dynamics to turn them off if needed.
Last edited by Fergler; 03-28-2020 at 02:31 PM.
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11-08-2020, 06:26 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: St Petersburg FL
Posts: 996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk
I have to say, I'm not really sure what you're trying to do here. If you want reaper to "extrapolate" compressor settings do you mean that Reaper should *learn* from a couple of example passages and then apply similar settings to similar passages?
*Or* do you mean that reaper should smoothly *interpolate* (?) settings between defined passages?
If the second, this is trivial to accomplish with automation.
Or is the issue one of automagically *identifying* passages which are relatively loud/quiet?
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Apologies for the late response - Basically I want to set compressor settings on several passages, have REAPER note their LUKS on the pre-settings, then extrapolate the compressor settings (automate) them based on the LUKFS values over each momentary passage (but it would have to apply a spline so values don't change too abruptly from moment to moment) - I assume this would be a multiple-pass function.
One example of where this could come into play would be mastering very dynamic classical music, so instead of having to set compressor settings for an average, you could set for the quietest parts, a medium part, and the loudest parts and then have REAPER automate the settings to fluctuate real-time depending on the loudness of each passage - a perfect mix of human intuition and machine help. - Basically, it would be like an advanced program-input-dependent compressor.
Looks like a couple of people posted some potential solutions which I am checking out now
Thanks so much for your time!!
-Dan
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11-08-2020, 06:29 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: St Petersburg FL
Posts: 996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk
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This looks like it could do the trick for SO many different things. Certainly a piece of the puzzle I have been missing!
Looks like it writes an envelope based on momentary Loudness Units.
Thanks so much for pointing it out!
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