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Old 03-13-2020, 10:56 AM   #1
serr
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Default Tips for mixing 'punk rock' gtrs that play with no space or arrangement?

There's raw obnoxious power in the band that's valid and needs to be presented. The drummer is good and gratuitous. The guitars have this raw Marshall wall of sound but they just sit there and crunch and drone. The band steps all over each other every step of the way... But again, there's a raw viscous energy there that's legit and should be presented somehow.

If you try to tame down the 2.5k saturation squeal of the Marshall or tone down the prominent 300Hz howl, the guitars instantly sound neutered. So you have neutered droning away with no arrangements now. Nope!

The guys all like Nirvana but they don't sound anything like them. (They truly don't have any idea what they sound like to begin with IMO.) Nirvana had arrangements. The guitar sounds are lit around 2k (as often happens) but they come in and out and have 'clean' tone parts throughout the songs.
If I trued to mix these guys like that, you'd have the 2.5k album and no one would be able to listen to it for more than 23 seconds!

I have some mixes going on that are decent enough. I probably already know what it needs... Either nothing at all and be done with it! Or start cutting gtr parts up and make some of them darker 'hit you in the chest' parts or something to carve some space in. Not looking to 'alter' or 'evolve' the band though.

Any of that sound familiar?
Any ideas around that would be welcome.

I grew up listening to Black Sabbath but I'm more comfortable mixing progressive/art/jazz kind of stuff. I need some "metal" tips or something...
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Old 03-13-2020, 12:20 PM   #2
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It's hard to say without hearing the mix, but it's really a case of, if the guitars sound good in isolation (i.e. if you could listen to the entire song with just the guitars) then they should be fine to listen to in the mix, but if that's not the case, you need to do something about those problem frequencies.

I mean, if you think about it, all you need to do is listen to everything together, and if any of the guitars stick out too much, eq them so they're dialled back a bit. And remember, 3dB is double/half the volume, so it doesn't need huge eq moves.
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Old 03-13-2020, 10:47 PM   #3
serr
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Just fishing for any left field ideas anyone may have around this. I've got a mix of what they did I like well enough. I mean, I turned the guitars down a little too far like nearly all mixes like this tend to do. I haven't quite found the balance between too polite and messed up that I'm looking for yet.
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Old 03-14-2020, 12:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
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I haven't quite found the balance between too polite and messed up that I'm looking for yet.
Hoo, but that is a matter of taste ... I think nobody can tell you what exactly to do.
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Old 03-14-2020, 01:44 AM   #5
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Serr,

Without hearing the track, it's tough to make a specific recommendation, but maybe try automating EQ on the guitars? Punk is raw, but if it's really as unstructured as you say, then you need to impose a bit of order. Identify WHICH part is the "important" one at any given time, and very gently tuck the other instruments back into the mix a bit or clear some tonal space for the feature. If the problem ranges are in the 300HZ and 2k5 neighborhoods, leave the feature alone and up front, and clean up the other guitar(s) in that section or phrase, or whatever. If it's a "harmony" bit, or a counter-rhythm thing, then differentiate them. Dump the 300Hz on one, and the 2k5 on the other.
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Old 03-14-2020, 11:50 PM   #6
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there are at least a couple of approaches but two that I have used are

have the guitars really raw and stepping over each other as you say - just accept that is their sound and if anything try and accentuate that

or

make the guitars really synthetic with extreme EQ (which you have said you dont want to do)

if the guitars are on separate tracks then you can semi-arrange that by bringing in and removing guitars as needed so the power increases and decreases according to the song structure (or lyric structure)

you can try some signal processing that might help eg zynaptiq unveil/intensity or eventide Physion, but you have to have those to be able to see if they help

and of course dynamic eq might help - toneboosters have a very good cheap one
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Old 03-16-2020, 02:30 PM   #7
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Remember you can apply apply different processing at different times - e.g. can one guitar part be more prominent than the other in a verse and vice versa in a chorus? If one plays something interesting at a particular point in a section, can you subtly boost it with automation/duck the other?
[edit: realised I'm only repeating what Eddy said above - still it might bear repeating!]
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Old 03-16-2020, 02:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
There's raw obnoxious power in the band that's valid and needs to be presented. The drummer is good and gratuitous. The guitars have this raw Marshall wall of sound but they just sit there and crunch and drone. The band steps all over each other every step of the way... But again, there's a raw viscous energy there that's legit and should be presented somehow.
Any chance one wouldn't want this to be "too good", I mean if it's punk, there's a certain amount of FU even in the sound treatment. Treating some styles like a Steely Dan or Taylor Swift mix is not the way to go. Not that you are, it's just a sanity check.

Otherwise, this is best solved during production/orchestration but those terms sort of go against the idea of punk unless it's meant to be extremely commercial which most of my punk friends would call not really punk.
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