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Old 05-20-2010, 01:36 AM   #41
gsbe
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Same issue here with the ExpertSleepers AU ninjam plugin. It crashes after 15 minutes using Ableton Live 8...

That's a bummer because it was pretty easy to setup and get running. I guess the only other option for a Mac is using a soundcard with multiple outputs or Rewire with Reaper...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
I've been playing with the ExpertSleepers AU ninjam plugin and it works ok.

However, the host application (Ableton Live 7) constantly and consistently crashes after about 15 minutes.

Anyone have any suggestions on geting ninjam to work properly on Mac Os 10.5 using Ableton Live?
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Old 05-20-2010, 12:22 PM   #42
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There's a JACK implementation for MACOS, right? Can you link audio apps up:
Reason -> JACK -> NINJAM standalone
like that?
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...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.
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Old 07-13-2010, 03:54 PM   #43
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Well googling around and following a few pages to pages I found this for you.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1215

The original question was answered by EdwardPayne at this link.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/e...cable-mac.html

This seems to show how to combine multiple devices as one, I imagine it simulates such an effect but may help your problem.
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Old 10-24-2010, 02:16 PM   #44
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Default NINJAM in REAPER Dual Mode

Heyy folks, I recently got a vid up on youtube that explains how to set up REAPER for NINJAM in a double channel mode (more channels can be added, but bandwith will be compromised)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oek0JMJ78EI

Hope this helps, thanks :P
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:15 AM   #45
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http://www.thepcclub.co.uk/ReaNINJAM-AudioRoute.JPG

Andy, your pic's died.

-edit-
Here's my attempt:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NINJAMRouting.jpg (53.8 KB, 1785 views)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.

Last edited by pljones; 02-27-2011 at 12:30 PM. Reason: have I really nothing better to do?
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:28 PM   #46
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Yeah, is my domain but another company took over and offered no way of renewing it so it just went dead on login then domain vanished eventually.

It might be worth changing NINJAM Client to Master Vol then put FX under that with arrow to the NINJAM Client, cos reaninjam sits on the master fx and AUDIO OUT maybe have REAPER somewhere there, will help people image the whole thing better. Oh also you could put VST above MIDI to Audio and helps show where a VST sits in the equation.

But that does show the route of through NINJAM.

I'll try find that pic again on the hd, not sure if it will let me edit it now though.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:43 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
I've been playing with the ExpertSleepers AU ninjam plugin and it works ok.

However, the host application (Ableton Live 7) constantly and consistently crashes after about 15 minutes.

Anyone have any suggestions on geting ninjam to work properly on Mac Os 10.5 using Ableton Live?

i am not sure if you have fixed this problem, but you can just use the soundflower program

http://cycling74.com/products/soundflower/

to link the audio out from Abelton to the audio in of ninjam.

worked for me fine - you will have to set up preferences in LIVE and also in Ninjam.

enjoy!
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:15 PM   #48
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Hiya all, I'm on Twitter as well now so you can link up with me there too if ya need to get hold of me.

http://twitter.com/andymccance
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:46 AM   #49
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Too hard for me.I can connect to ninjam but all I want is too record them and record my midi input playing a software instrument.
Any noob guide on that?

I'm not very tech.
I'm a musician.

I got lost.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:36 AM   #50
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Why are the files ogg files and why are they so tiny and why are they stored in ten different folders?
I don't get ninjam.
Do you need to have record on the transport going or it just streams the audio to those 10 or so folders?

Still don't know if I'm getting a signal or not.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:12 AM   #51
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To use the recordings:

1) Use Reaper.
2) In Reaper, do File->Open Project..., then navigate to the folder where those ten folders with the tiny ogg files live.
3) Select "clipsort.log", say yes to the question and wait...


To join a jam:

1) Use Reaper (or you'll get little help, unfortunately).
2) Use the set up details in this thread.
3) If you're on one of the ninbot.com servers, you can use "nb levels" to see what the current levels the bot is hearing are. If you're not showing anything, the bot can't hear you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.

Last edited by pljones; 06-10-2013 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:59 PM   #52
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I'm a reaper user.

Thanks for the info.
Still don't know if I have the live jamming bit set up properly but I do see some wav action in the files.

P.S. just checked all my ninjam sessions and couldn't find any of my recordings only others in the same session.
How do I configure a vst instrument midi track to record in ninjam?

Noob terms so I can follow?

I created a ninjam track then I created a midi track for my vsti.
I then added the recieve of the vsti track in the ninjam track.

Is that right?

Couldn't get it to work sorry.

I could see the metre going but no one could hear me.
Bugger.

Anyone with a step by step guide for dumbarses like me?

I have been using Reaper before version 1 was released.

Just wanted to have some fun with this function.

Last edited by smasha; 06-10-2013 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:31 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pljones View Post
Above applies to hardware or software audio feeds into Reaper. For MIDI feeds with virtual instruments hosted in Reaper, you need to add a step 5.2 (dropping 5 and 5.1 if not needed).

5.2) As ever, create a track, setting it to "monitor track input while recording" and "record disable (input monitor only)", arm the track and turn on monitoring. The track also needs to accept MIDI input from your device -- right-click->MIDI Inputs->All MIDI Inputs->All Channels is a good starting point. Now, click the FX button to insert track FX and select your virtual instrument. When you play your MIDI device, you should see a small red square appear at the left end of the track meter and hear some output.
Don't understand this.

Record disable then arm the track part.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:46 PM   #54
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I think I know what I'm doing wrong.

Ninjam channel should be set to normal ninjam instead of session mode.

Mine default to session mode which I don't understand why?

Last edited by smasha; 06-11-2013 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 06-11-2013, 12:16 AM   #55
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I've never used anything other than "normal" mode, so that's not something I can explain. The ninbot plugin generally seems to default to the last settings you used (regardless of project - it lives in its own world...).

The only reason I can think it's not saving settings is that its settings are in a folder you don't have write permission on (for example, under "C:\Program Files"). You could try installing somewhere else to avoid that.
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Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:34 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pljones View Post
I've never used anything other than "normal" mode, so that's not something I can explain. The ninbot plugin generally seems to default to the last settings you used (regardless of project - it lives in its own world...).

The only reason I can think it's not saving settings is that its settings are in a folder you don't have write permission on (for example, under "C:\Program Files"). You could try installing somewhere else to avoid that.
That's what it was.Working fine now.
Just had a big session with Karmaleon playing kb drums lol.
Great fun but I'm better with sticks than fingers.

P.S. Just one problem.
My files come out as mono instead of stereo.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:42 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
Thanks for solving a problem I had.
I ticked the "save as wavs" box and my session came out in mono.

Will untick that confounded box now.
ReaNINJAM allows you to configure a channel as MONO. Check you have "Stereo 1/2" selected in the drop down next to "Xmit". This will consume the first two input channels that you're feeding your Master output (where you have ReaNINJAM inserted) to go to NINJAM.
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Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:52 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pljones View Post
ReaNINJAM allows you to configure a channel as MONO. Check you have "Stereo 1/2" selected in the drop down next to "Xmit". This will consume the first two input channels that you're feeding your Master output (where you have ReaNINJAM inserted) to go to NINJAM.
I'm pretty certain I had the channel set to 1/2 stereo.
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Old 06-12-2013, 11:33 AM   #59
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Try this pdf guide for ninjam in reaper. I am sure you 'll get the technical.

http://www.freewebs.com/arxeia/Ninjam_User_Guide.pdf
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:34 PM   #60
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Default Problems with ReaNinjam

Some installations won't even find ReaNINJAM as a valid plugin.

Currently, I get full response on Reaper in the meters, but nothing appears in ReaNinjam, whether I diretcy it from a different track or I put it on a single track. Always, the signal from my interface (m-audio or Presonus). I cannot get the signal to go through to ReaNinjam, though I have already been doing so for years.

- WR
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:16 PM   #61
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Both of the set ups you describe are not in line with the recommended approach. Put ReaNINJAM on your Master out.
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Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.
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Old 11-17-2015, 12:31 AM   #62
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So thanks to this sticky I'm up and running on ReaNinjam. But I've got 2 things I'd really like to sort out but can't figure out:

1) How do I send my tracks to Ninjam without monitoring them? I usually don't monitor my vocal tracks because I'm running them through my I/O's hardware for zero latency. If I have to turn on monitoring I get very annoying latency.
I have found a workaround, but it seems kinda overly redundant. If I set the Master to 4 channels, create a 2nd track with the same input as the 1st but with the monitoring on and parent channels 3/4, I can then go to Ninjam and set the local track to 3/4, and in the Ninjam fx plugin control window I can set the router to output 1 and 2 but not 3 and 4. Seems like a lot for just not wanting to hit the monitor button right?

Ok, secondly: How can I record just the incoming tracks from OTHER musicians to a dedicated track in Reaper without anything else? I realize Reaper saves the tracks for mixing later, but I don't wanna mix later, I wanna mix now! I tried the version where I put ReaNinjam on its own track and not the Master, but it picks up incoming AND my local tracks. I just want the other musician's tracks all by themselves without me on the track. Actually, if there's say, 2 other musicians in the room, I'd like to record them each on their own track. Is there a way to do this or do I just gotta wait til I'm done and then go in and get the clipsort file?
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Last edited by Chris4943; 11-17-2015 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:04 AM   #63
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ReaNINJAM should be an insert effect on your Master channel. There's no point putting it anywhere else, really.

Turn off direct monitoring. You must only hear your audio through NINJAM to be in time with the click and hence in time with everyone else. Reduce your buffer size from 512 to 64 to reduce the latency.

For multi-track recording, go into ReaNINJAM, File, Preferences and turn it on.
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Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.
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Old 01-11-2020, 05:08 PM   #64
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OK, about time to post this here. I just realised there's no explanation around what others in a jam are hearing when you're playing and it's one of the really, really not obvious parts of the whole thing.

tl/dr: People don't hear you when you play. They hear you later. You play on "1", they hear you when that gets to them, delayed until the next time they get to "1". Different people may hear different people's "1" mixed together with theirs...

That's the short version.

Let's start the long version with a picture. Yeah, it's not pretty...
Code:
A: |0: a0/b-/c- :|1: a1/b-/c- :|2: a2/b1/c1 :|3: a3/b2/c2 :|
B: |0: a-/b-/c- :|1: a0/b1/c- :|2: a1/b2/c- :|3: a2/b3/c1 :|
C: |0: a-/b-/c- :|1: a0/b-/c1 :|2: a1/b1/c2 :|3: a2/b2/c3 :|
"A", "B" and "C" are three people who have joined a single NINJAM session. The "x: ../../.. :|" bits are what each of them hears and plays for each interval after they join.

A starts playing, so that's "a0", playing to nothing from B or C.

B and C wait until they hear "a0", A's first interval, and start playing when they hear it. Both happen to get it at the start of the next interval.

A, of course, does not hear B or C until after they finish playing, so plays "a1" to nothing, too.

B's "b1" gets to A and C ready for the next interval.

C's "c1", however - due to the timing of A, B and C joining the server - gets to A for the next interval but to B for the one after.

----

So how do you make coherent music with this apparent "mess"? You understand musical form (and you follow the metronome).

Like I said, "x: ../../.. :|" (or, for example B's, "3: a2/b3/c1 :|") is an "interval" in NINJAM terms.

Each interval is a number of beats.

Each time an interval starts, each player starts hearing an interval from the other players, delayed to synchronise each other player's "1" to their "1", like I said at the start. (That's why following the metronome is important.)

Examine most simple songs and their form becomes apparent. There are even names like "12 bar blues" to describe that form.

Taking that example, what does "12 bar blues" mean?

Aside for those not familiar with the terms:
It is important to read "bars" as "bars" and "beats" as "beats" and understand that they are not the same thing.

In "12 bar blues", each "bar" has four "beats". That means you could call it "48 beat blues".

That's the important thing: the interval should be set to 48 beats. You multiply the number of bars by the number of beats in a bar, which you can take as 4. (Most people struggle if the beats per bar isn't 4, to be honest.)

Then each player will hear the blues chords from one 12 bar phrase at the start of the next.

Most rock and pop uses 8 bar phrases, two very similar 8 bar phrases or a 16 bar phrase. (Variations on that, such as four or eight 2 bar phrases, etc, are fairly common, too.)

Even rap might repeat one 4 bar phrase three times and then use a new 4 bar phrase, before repeating the form. In that case you could consider either 8 (if the last 4 bars isn't much different from the one 8 bars before) or 16 bars as the form. 4 bars would not work -- especially in NINJAM, because of the clash between the various different stages each player in the jam might be at.

Note that "form" can also be thought of as the chord sequence. Each chord will cover one or more beats but usually there will be one or two per bar, though sometimes more in passing. What you don't want to hear is two dissonant chords played against each other because the interval doesn't match the form.

So...
32BPI (8 bars) is good for most things - but not 12 bar blues.
48BPI (12 bars) is good for blues and straightforward jazz without too much cleverness.
64BPI (16 bars) is pushing most people's patience, though it's not too bad above 140BPM...

But you can go beyond this. I've had a few vaguely successful attempts at Brubeck's Take Five, with willing participants.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.

Last edited by pljones; 01-11-2020 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 01-13-2020, 01:30 PM   #65
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I said "due to the timing of A, B and C joining the server" -- that's important and I didn't explain it. And my example might have been wrong above.

Why does this happen? Look at it a different way... bear with this...
Code:
T: ....,....|....,....|....,....|....,....|....,....|
A: a0......a1......a2......a3......
B:     b0......b1......b2......b3......
C:        c0......c1......c2......c3......
D:        d0......d1......d2......d3......
Here, "T" is "real time" passing and "a", "b", "c", "d" represent A, B, C and D hearing "1" on the metronome. It doesn't really show network latency well, though... C and D are playing at about the same time in real time. Network latency means they play against "1" but they get delayed to each other's next "1". Worse, network latency also means D's "1" for "d0" doesn't get to A in time for their "a1" and gets pushed back "a2" and so on -- but B isn't affected, hearing C and D "together".

So you end up with something similar to what I was trying to convey before:
Code:
A a0/b-/c-/d- | a1/b0/c-/d- | a2/b1/c1/d0 | a3/b2/c2/d1 |
B a-/b0/c-/d- | a0/b1/c0/d0 | a1/b2/c1/d1 | a2/b3/c2/d2 |
C a-/b0/c0/d- | a0/b1/c1/d- | a1/b2/c2/d1 | a2/b3/c3/d2 |
D a-/b0/c-/d0 | a0/b1/c-/d1 | a1/b2/c1/d2 | a2/b3/c2/d3 |
And, if B, C and D do wait until A starts, to show who starts hearing who "when" (in terms of the interval):
Code:
A a0/b-/c-/d- | a1/b-/c-/d- | a2/b1/c1/d- | a3/b2/c2/d1 |
B a-/b-/c-/d- | a0/b1/c-/d- | a1/b2/c1/d1 | a2/b3/c2/d2 |
C a-/b-/c-/d- | a0/b1/c1/d- | a1/b2/c2/d1 | a2/b3/c3/d2 |
D a-/b-/c-/d- | a0/b1/c-/d1 | a1/b2/c1/d2 | a2/b3/c2/d3 |
This is all assuming what's played gets streamed in real time from the client to the server and then out to the other clients. If it's recorded at the client, then you can't hear "1" of an interval until after that interval has completed being played, then compressed, transmitted to the server, sent to the other clients, decompressed and played (which obviously takes some time even on modern hardware and networks). That would change the picture but the idea is the same.

You don't really know when the others in the room will hear you, except that what you play on "1" will get delayed until some future time and heard on "1", whilst you're hearing something that from the past that's been delayed until you heard "1"...

It's important to understand that to keep jams musical, if that's intended.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Williams
...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world.

Last edited by pljones; 01-13-2020 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Clarifying through correcting the examples...
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