Is it like reflecting at max values, like billard balls? If yes, I did something like this for midi control values, reflecting at min and max values, this way I could use any mathematical function, e.g. also exponential function, and it would just reflect and continue! And your description above sounds a little like this, only for audio. Let me check it. Thanks a lot!
It's a bit softer than doing just that, but somewhat similar. Really reflecting it linearly like you suggest would create a lot of aliasing. This method suffers from that a bit less.
I would suggest running a sine through filther with it on, with a scope on the output, then changing the cutoff and/or gain. You'll see what it does
You ever check out the Airwindows stuff? I think all the free ones are open source. This reminds me of something I heard him say about Spiral, I believe. Just wondering. Looking forward to playing with all these new toys today! Thanks Sai'ke!
Transfer of a single stage looks like this (these figures come from the paper):
It's not a saturator, it actually flips and folds the sine back into itself. Like so:
More gain induces more folds, while the resistor strength (R in the figure) can be tuned with the cutoff. Resonance adds a DC component (which is filtered out again after folding), but which biases the folding in interesting ways.
Thanks for the updates! Trying out a version with the envelopes.
After you enable playback, there's a short glitch (also the plugin UI freezes) when the envelope playhead reaches the end.
Also, would it be possible to add a toggle to disable the envelopes completely when not in use (i.e. not have that playhead marker moving when not utilizing the envelopes)?
Another: seems like setting oversampling from 2x to 1x makes the Spin filter more detuned.
Definitely check out some of the Airwindows code if you get a chance. He's got an overwhelming amount of plugins, but most of them are iterations of various ideas and they're all super efficient on the cpu. Spiral is an incredibly smooth saturation/distortion that pops up in a lot of them. I think it might be similar in concept to what you're working on, but I might be wrong....
After you enable playback, there's a short glitch (also the plugin UI freezes) when the envelope playhead reaches the end.
I noticed this too. Nothing special needs to be done, just load Filther with default settings, hit play and the entire project will glitch when the envelopes end. I've rolled back to 2.35 for now for a track I'm working on.
Apart from that, nice work. I really need to dig deeper as I've barely scratched the surface of what this one can do
Thanks for the updates! Trying out a version with the envelopes.
After you enable playback, there's a short glitch (also the plugin UI freezes) when the envelope playhead reaches the end.
Also, would it be possible to add a toggle to disable the envelopes completely when not in use (i.e. not have that playhead marker moving when not utilizing the envelopes)?
Another: seems like setting oversampling from 2x to 1x makes the Spin filter more detuned.
Thanks. Good catches. Apologies for the glitch! So weird that hadn't noticed that. My guess is that in my working copy, the memory beyond the envelope was still filled by something else, terminating that while loop properly. Anyways, should be fixed now.
Both envelope issues and the spin/vibrato issue should be fixed now.
I'm trying to figure out the wave folders in a scope... looks like "Wavefolder" flips the polarity of the input signal, is that intentional?
Yeah, the original hardware did that too actually. I was on the fence whether that was an aspect of it that I wanted to replicate. It would be easy to not have it do that.
Anyways, for the wavefolder, increase the gain a bit until you start seeing it hit a roof to see what it does. Then drive up the cutoff.
Here, I made a very brief example. Input is just a sine wave. Cutoff controls the amount of shaping. Resonance introduces a DC before the waveshaper (which leads to asymmetry in the waveform). The DC is filtered out again later.
You own one? Is it possible to somehow get controlled sweeps with known inputs out of that thing? Or notes with and without filter at specific known pitches and gain levels. I mean, I think I could do a much better job at modelling it if I had a controlled data-set like that.
I've tried modelling the CEM 3389, but I never had any real data, and I think my model for that one isn't very good tbh. I think with the MS-20 I got much closer to what it is supposed to sound like. But I would love to have a real crack at the 3328 at some point.
It might take some time though, because I have some other things to round up first.
Sounds great! Funny enough I am just about to start doing some basic tests for Markus at Awave in order to get better translations of Mirage disks (using white noise sampled into the Mirage). The main objective being to translate the Mirage values into real world equivalents.
So I could possibly then extend the testing process if you could guide me as to what you would require.
As you said, it would probably happen over a period of time ; like you, I have quite a lot going on (most of the time) and tend to be juggling ... but I am really keen to follow this up even if it does take time.
Here, I made a very brief example. Input is just a sine wave. Cutoff controls the amount of shaping. Resonance introduces a DC before the waveshaper (which leads to asymmetry in the waveform). The DC is filtered out again later.
I just deleted half the filters from my favorites...they're obsolete now. This is probably too much to ask and if it were feasible you probably would have done it already, but...any chance of envelope curves? I know we can fake it with more points, but one or two points and curves is so much simpler. Tal Filter II does it this way and it's berry nice.
Anyways, amazing work, as always, thank you Sai'ke!
I just deleted half the filters from my favorites...they're obsolete now. This is probably too much to ask and if it were feasible you probably would have done it already, but...any chance of envelope curves? I know we can fake it with more points, but one or two points and curves is so much simpler. Tal Filter II does it this way and it's berry nice.
Yeah, it was originally on my list as well. The reason I went with linear was that it is much faster to evaluate and I figured you could just make more curves by using more nodes. Now in retrospect, it might've been nice to allow more shapes. I will see what I can do.
I've had a look at some of the air windows source, but I'm not super sold on the ones I looked at to be honest. The description he gave in the video didn't really seem to have much to do with what was actually in the source. But hey, that said, if you find a good use for it, that's cool. They're not really for me
Wavefolder and envelope are amazing. Especially the envelope fills a gap in shaping the sound without any restriction. Great work. Only thing that still clouds the soup a little bit is the cutoff/resonance bundle restriction. You only can put all those great modulations on both.
I had some thoughts about it. But I have no clue if this could be done and with how much efforts. But would it be possible to create kind of a cycle thru? So that you click once on ENV1 to enable it for cutoff and resonance. The second click changes the color of the button and only affects cutoff. And the third click enables only resonance and also changes the button color.
I guess this would be a lot of work and confusion for you. So its only a suggestion that came to my mind. (Don't take it to seriously!)
There is really a strange feeling when using Filther nowadays. Because I used and learned it from the beginning I really feel at home if I'm on it. This only else happens in Photoshop. And its a good sign. Whenever I want a certain effect I can shape it blindly in Filther. And this is how it should be. Many thanks!
I've had a look at some of the air windows source, but I'm not super sold on the ones I looked at to be honest. The description he gave in the video didn't really seem to have much to do with what was actually in the source. But hey, that said, if you find a good use for it, that's cool. They're not really for me
Which did you check and what was not telling the truth? Airwindows can sound fantastic. Do not set them to zero too quickly.
You want an example, set to master:
ToTape5
--Louder 0.344
--Softer 0
--Fatter 0.523999
--Flutter 0.326999
--Output 1
--Dry/Wet 1
Channel4
--Console Neve
--Drive 100%
There is really a strange feeling when using Filther nowadays. Because I used and learned it from the beginning I really feel at home if I'm on it. This only else happens in Photoshop. And its a good sign. Whenever I want a certain effect I can shape it blindly in Filther. And this is how it should be. Many thanks!
Could you make a few tutorials with your magical experiences? Would be cool.
I've had a look at some of the air windows source, but I'm not super sold on the ones I looked at to be honest.
I get it. I wrote them off as well at first; his approach is experimental and his videos, well... He says a lot that he doesn't care too much about accurate emulations, but rather getting a certain result with as little code as possible. But I was really hoping you'd see some magic in the code, haha. Oh well. Just try ToTape5 for fattening up kicks, or Spiral2 for some bass saturation. I think there's magick...
Yeah, it was originally on my list as well. The reason I went with linear was that it is much faster to evaluate and I figured you could just make more curves by using more nodes.
^that be filthsome^ t.i.a.
had a quick blast last night and came across a couple of 'anomalies'--would you like to see,or not>?
Quote:
Wavefolder and envelope are amazing.
I really feel at home if I'm on it.
^yep them wavefolders are interesting 1'z fo' surez..pretty wildthing =)
+ i believe that 'feeling at home sensation' comes from great tools,and intuitive layouts-this is 1 of them tools,and totally becomes an extention of 1's.. being..?
..as a sword might in the hands of a master sonic ninja..
am finding filther is quite the slashing,hacking,stabbing, jabbing,clawing and scraping tool-pretty agressive in certain stages--but then there is a much more rounder,softer,smoother and gentle,more friendly side to it's 'nature' -heh.
moar!!
Ok I have another suggestion... It's become kinda standard or at least very intuitive way of dealing with many modulation sources, basically ever since Massive, to color code them.
The interface is by now familiar to those of us who followed its evolution, but bound to seem overwhelming and cluttered to noobs. Simple solution is to color the modulator toggles and their respective text uniquely.
Like so (just envelopes here, for example):
It would also allow you to simplify further by just using one-letter abbreviations on buttons (since they would be color-coded).
I'm happy to attempt it as far as its possible (gonna play with the theming a bit today).
Took a first crack at some different colors... So yea it would be super awesome to control the backface color (or just the outline and text if that's better) of each widget independently, as well as the corresponding button (they could even be hard-linked).
Few nitpicks:
1. Strange lines appear left of Level and right of envelopes (sometimes).
2. Any way to always open the JS editor with auto-refresh off? That causes some serious lag on my system for some reason.
3. How to change the font size? It seems constrained at some odd aspect ratio, which makes it impossible to get good results with other fonts.
4. Envelope gridlines (still beta, I know) should follow the color of the other gridlines and the envelopes should have color option or just follow spline color.
5. Can you move your logo down and right 2 pixels plz? Been bugging be forever that the edges are slightly cut off...
One request:
Can you allow right drag anywhere in the Dynamics window to adjust Thresh, like left drag does for zoom?
Which did you check and what was not telling the truth? Airwindows can sound fantastic. Do not set them to zero too quickly.
You want an example, set to master:
ToTape5
--Louder 0.344
--Softer 0
--Fatter 0.523999
--Flutter 0.326999
--Output 1
--Dry/Wet 1
I tried the ToTape one. It sounds okay, but I'm not a fan of the slight crackle that it seems to induce over dynamics. I kind of prefer an EQ/saturation combo for this kind of stuff, since it gives me more independent control over which part of the effect I want to change. There also seems to be some DC pushed through. I'm not a huge fan of things with fuzzy naming and not clearly delineated effects. I rather have a few surgical ones that I know very well and can get to do exactly what I want. It's nice that he releases them for free though, and cool that they're useful to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justcosmic1
Sounds great! Funny enough I am just about to start doing some basic tests for Markus at Awave in order to get better translations of Mirage disks (using white noise sampled into the Mirage). The main objective being to translate the Mirage values into real world equivalents.
So I could possibly then extend the testing process if you could guide me as to what you would require.
As you said, it would probably happen over a period of time ; like you, I have quite a lot going on (most of the time) and tend to be juggling ... but I am really keen to follow this up even if it does take time.
That would be awesome! And I'm in no rush.
White noise at low and high input level would be interesting to me. Just to see the linear part of the frequency response. As well as a sine wave at various input levels (I don't know the machine that well, but do you notice any saturation effects when you use higher gains (higher harmonics popping in)?).
Does the filter self oscillate when you crank the resonance?
One thing that's also interesting, which I noticed in the earliest model that I did of a chip in that series, was that if you really cranked the resonance, the filter would detune a little due to saturation effects of the OTA in the feedback loop. It would be interesting to see if the real deal does this too. If not, then that saturation effect may not be physically relevant in the real system and be omitted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseat
I had some thoughts about it. But I have no clue if this could be done and with how much efforts. But would it be possible to create kind of a cycle thru? So that you click once on ENV1 to enable it for cutoff and resonance. The second click changes the color of the button and only affects cutoff. And the third click enables only resonance and also changes the button color.
This would indeed be a fair amount of work, but it should be possible. I would have to test how much of a performance penalty it would incur (more if-statement branching in code that gets called a lot).
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria
Ok I have another suggestion... It's become kinda standard or at least very intuitive way of dealing with many modulation sources, basically ever since Massive, to color code them.
The interface is by now familiar to those of us who followed its evolution, but bound to seem overwhelming and cluttered to noobs. Simple solution is to color the modulator toggles and their respective text uniquely.
I like the idea of color coding things, but at a first glance, it seems like it would be incompatible with the idea Eliseat had about allowing a dual toggle for resonance/cutoff.
How about as an alternative, I dim the irrelevant controls's alpha when hovering over a control. So when hovering over dynamics, all controls appear slightly dimmer except the dynamics section. Or do you think that'd be too distracting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria
So yea it would be super awesome to control the backface color (or just the outline and text if that's better) of each widget independently, as well as the corresponding button (they could even be hard-linked).
What do you mean by widget in this context? Every instance of a button/slider? I really don't want to have 100+ variables so that every single thing can be recolored separately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria
1. Strange lines appear left of Level and right of envelopes (sometimes).
Screenshot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria
2. Any way to always open the JS editor with auto-refresh off? That causes some serious lag on my system for some reason.
Not that I know. If you find one, let me know. Not many JSFX are this big and have so many variables, so I think it was just that this number of variables to update was not foreseen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria
3. How to change the font size? It seems constrained at some odd aspect ratio, which makes it impossible to get good results with other fonts.
What? I don't mess with the aspect ratio at all. Many fonts just don't behave very well at such low sizes. Font size is set in SetupGUI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria
4. Envelope gridlines (still beta, I know) should follow the color of the other gridlines and the envelopes should have color option or just follow spline color.
Ya.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria
5. Can you move your logo down and right 2 pixels plz? Been bugging be forever that the edges are slightly cut off...
Sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria
Can you allow right drag anywhere in the Dynamics window to adjust Thresh, like left drag does for zoom?
Sure.
The second one in the last post looks alright to me and so does the blue one, but I really don't like the green one personally.
I have a strange preset which only works if I open Filthers GUI. This happened since the last update to version 2.47 took place. At least I didn't notice this behavior before. Any idea, whats going on? https://mega.nz/#!3qxGjCRC!FmpBpjM7k...TkEFnu1AilSJlk
And related to the cutoff-resonance separation: This idea or request really shouldn't have to much weight if you think its to much work or time effort to implement it. This also is only from my point of view because I often get at the point where I would like to only modulate one of the parameter while using another modulation source for the other parameter. I'm also not sure if my thoughts have a logical hole. So please take your time to overthink it.
And maybe some of the fans here could answer if they even have this on their priority list. For me this would be more useful and important than another LFO or an other modulator. Just for example.
Could you make a few tutorials with your magical experiences? Would be cool.
You are funny.
I planned to make some example videos but failed miserably because of Reapers stupid MIDI restricted preset automation possibilities. Real tutorials would need a lot of background descriptions which I couldn't do with my limited English speaking skills AND stupid German accent.
So no, this would be to embarrassing. And at the moment also to time consuming. I have two kids, what guarantees a lot of extra trouble.
But instead you could take a look at the first post because Sai'ke himself made a great tutorial which covers every aspect of Filther. (If I think about it. This needs some new descriptions about the envelopes, Sai'ke. )
I planned to make some example videos but failed miserably because of Reapers stupid MIDI restricted preset automation possibilities. Real tutorials would need a lot of background descriptions ...
No time for tutorials, but for filther? No problem, just asked, thought maybe you are a special expert or not, anyway, not so important. Not sure what Reaper has for preset automation limitations? I know Reaper as limitless program, if not directly, then over three corners. I did not want any real tutorials, just anything, where we see and hear something, this is more then enough always as all information is just there.
Oh, I am not any airwindows expert or so, more the amateur, I just read around or listen to the devs videos, then while reading those youtube comments some suggestions appear more than once, so I try them out, if I like the result, which I discover just by accident, then I save it as fx chain, e.g. the above combi I saved as airmaster, it sounds a little better for me with them. Maybe it just makes it a little louder and I think it sounds better, not sure. So you can try yourself and judge if you like the result or not, if not, keep them bypassed.
To answer your question, most airwindows I did not check yet, only the newer ones usually I am checking, but I did not go fully to the past and try them all. Cool would be a tutorial converting airwindows src to jsfx code, automatically, and the opposite direction from jsfx to vst, if only consisting of a few lines. It is possible channel6 is much better, who knows.
Hey, just a very brief update. Added different envelope shapes. Double click to switch. Still consider envelopes beta.
Eliseat; Envelope activation was accidentally managed in the gfx thread rather than the audio thread. I had it there for testing purposes and forgot to move it to the right location. Should be fixed now x_x
I did read all other FR's and posts, a more detailed reply sometime in the future. I will have limited access to reaper and the forums for a few days, so no more updates until a later date
How about as an alternative, I dim the irrelevant controls's alpha when hovering over a control. So when hovering over dynamics, all controls appear slightly dimmer except the dynamics section. Or do you think that'd be too distracting?
Well the idea was to get a sense of what modulations are active and where to switch them at a glance. The colors don't have to cover each box; they could just be the outline of the section + the corresponding button. There is a lot onscreen and I just though this would simplify it to look at. You can have single letters on the buttons because the color matches with the appropriate section. If your way seems helpful and not too much work for you, I think it can't hurt.
But it can easily be compatible with the other suggestion by changing the text instead of color for the "clickthrough." Or maybe your idea of dimming could work here instead; hovering over the button would dim the slider it's not controlling. Unless I misunderstand the idea...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sai'ke
What do you mean by widget in this context? Every instance of a button/slider? I really don't want to have 100+ variables so that every single thing can be recolored separately.
Nay, certainly not that many. By widget I meant each grouped box, and by modulation type, so:
1.Filters, 2.Dynamics, 3.Envelopes, 4.LFO, 5.Key, 6.Pitch. The respective buttons should share the same color.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sai'ke
Screenshot?
Check the dark blue one for lines left of "Level" (very left edge of image) and right of Env1. Actually it seems this envelope line occurs whenever the loop is outside the viewing area. Maybe it's intentional; just looks a bit odd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sai'ke
The second one in the last post looks alright to me and so does the blue one, but I really don't like the green one personally.
I'll try a few more. Yea I prefer the darker ones, just wanted to have some brighter ones too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eliseat
Did you made this with Photoshop? Or is it coded?
Sai'ke said I could... You guys can do some too; it's easy. Colors are in the code altogether and each with RGBA on scales of 0-1. Sai'ke said he might include the ones he likes.
Sai'ke, the last version is broken for some reason. The preset starts correctly but then turns into a dull version of it.
It only applies to presets with envelope. But don't feel stressed. Take your time. We all know and accept the beta status and of course your private life. https://mega.nz/#!j7wikSgI!kEBsVLmTi...Vt5pnaWWYRRSh8
TonE, I never claimed to be a special expert. I only wrote that I feel at home in Filther as I do in Photoshop where I have the same feeling about getting out what ever I want. Playing with Filther is not the same as planning and developing a tutorial which takes way more time and thoughts. Okay, there is a wide spectrum of "tutorials" from silent showing without any hint to professional learning videos like Kenny's. I'm kind of a perfectionist in such things. I wouldn't put out something embarrassing or stupid.
And yes, maybe you can do everything with five or six workarounds in Reaper. But for people who are not nerds but who just want to be creative spontaneously its sometimes pure poison. It kills every motivation if you think a thing should be as easy as possible but then you find it complicated like hell with the prospect of learning stone age MIDI coherency.
Yeah, I can't sleep now because I fell asleep with my daughter at 7pm. Now its 1.45 am and I have to get out at 6 o'clock. lol.
Okay, I'm pretty tired but I found out what happened. Those presets lose their ENV1 envelope after a few milliseconds. You can see it in the video when the ENV1 or ENV2 buttons just flash for a short moment. I guess I leave these presets untouched until you find time to take a look at it, Sai'ke. If you think its alright, everything can easily get fixed by enabling the ENV1 or ENV2 again and make some adjustments.
Thank you so much for this Sai'ke. This filter is bad ass!
Quick question... I tried to get the LFOs to work to modulate the filters but I was unable to get them to work. Are these yet to be worked implemented?
__________________
Check out some of the music at ... www.saukar.com
This is probably too much to ask and if it were feasible you probably would have done it already, but...any chance of envelope curves? I know we can fake it with more points, but one or two points and curves is so much simpler. Tal Filter II does it this way and it's berry nice. 
Just try ToTape5 for fattening up kicks, or Spiral2 for some bass saturation. I think there's magick... 
Linear Mode
