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Old 08-31-2013, 09:09 AM   #41
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Plugins aren't expensive.

You're just poor.
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Old 08-31-2013, 11:49 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by moonfiremusic View Post
Since I got a smartphone and saw how even games are dirt cheap (Asphalt 8 is 1$), I can't help but wonder how the hell all this software (not just plugins) is so expensive. I don't know much about programming, but isn't the same amount of work put into a mobile app (by that I mean the complex ones, like games) than into PC software?
Hell, some plugins cost more than the OS itself.
I know the market is a lot smaller here, but still...
no. phone games use much simpler engines, have much smaller budgets across the map, especially these days with voice acting and whatnot. phone games are like games from 2005 or earlier, not like games from 2013.
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Old 08-31-2013, 11:59 PM   #43
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I don't know much about programming
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I know the market is a lot smaller here, but still...
Nuff said
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:58 AM   #44
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So - I suppose the answer to "why are plugins so expensive" i s best answered by posing the question "Who has enough money from music to actually buy them?"

Following on from this and paralleling the amateur band's take on music a a hobby vs music as a living, we arrive at the current situation where there are enough FREE or almost free plugs out there to satisfy most amateur or even semi pro recordists, why pine after the top end plugs that ARE expensive but also likely to be beyond your ability to use to the fullest anyway.
Plus in the great wash of musical shite, is anyone ever going to get the chance to actually HEAR what you did?

My first record was made on a ONE track, two input 15ips "pro" tape recorder, was recorded in the upstairs room of a pub & was released. It even sold a few copies. 2 mics. no effects at all.
Real clarity, well put..
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Old 09-01-2013, 01:36 AM   #45
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Something about this is so romantically radical. I love it!

I'd like to hear the actual recording.

Do you still have it? Can you post it?
I still have (I think) one copy, scratchy as hell and somehow got covered with blobs of enamel paint. I will try and clean it & then see if I can get it to play.

Might be an incentive to get the rest of my "cant sell or dump" nostalgia vinyl collection into a computer....
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:16 AM   #46
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I still have (I think) one copy, scratchy as hell and somehow got covered with blobs of enamel paint. I will try and clean it & then see if I can get it to play.

Might be an incentive to get the rest of my "cant sell or dump" nostalgia vinyl collection into a computer....
Excellent!

Looking forward to listening to your work.
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Old 08-01-2017, 03:21 PM   #47
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I admit, I've wondered the same thing. I'm sure alot goes into making a quality plugin and people need to be compensated for their time. On one hand, a modeled analog compressor is way cheaper than buying the original hardware version and u can use it hundreds of times in the same session if u want, and the sound will be pretty close if it's good. . On the other hand, there's alot of companies that charge outrageous prices for their products simply because they can. Something might cost $10 to make and they'll charge several hundred because it has their brand on it... I wonder, if expensive plugins are justified in their pricing... Like, the stillwell compression plugins are awesome, they look great, sound great, they're stable and compared to say, waves, they're CHEAP.
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Old 08-01-2017, 05:40 PM   #48
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we all end up downloading them and using them for free (i guess??)


ns
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:02 AM   #49
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I don't know what the fuss is about. If you don't want to pay a lot for plugins there are loads of good ones that are free. And you can make some great music with them.

If you insist on using plugins that have a high price on them then it's you that have made that choice. Essentially the companies are trying to make money (they probably want to eat and pay for their houses and cars etc a bit like you do) so they offer stuff at a price. If people will pay it, great. If they won't they'll go out of business and you'll have less choice.

Maybe if you can produce accounts showing that you've been working without pay for the last X years they'll give you a break. Anyone?

Steve
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Old 08-02-2017, 09:38 AM   #50
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I'm going to try to answer this question as best I can with the information I have. I'll preface this by saying that I've had many long conversations about software pricing with my brother. My brother is one of the top software developers in my country. I know how pretentious and ostentatious that sounds, but it happens to be the truth. So, I trust his authority on the subject, given his education and having been in those trenches for the last two decades. But, I'll be speaking in my own words, as I understand the situation. As I understand it, the price of software is determined by a small assortment of variables. How specialized the software is, how the software was developed, who developed it, what the market's demand for the software is, etc.

My brother once told me of a $1,000,000 program his office had to purchase from Asia for our local transit service, and how it was a perfectly reasonable price because it was projected to pay for itself very quickly. So, in this example we have a highly specialized piece of software for a very esoteric purpose. It was very expensive, but also paid dividends like crazy.

Sometimes you have software developed by a single person, the sale of which is often the primary source of income for said person. If higher prices are tolerated by the market, it can have a huge impact on that developer's life. Not to mention a direct impact on just how much software they can develop, since making money is necessary for investment and development to begin with. If the lone developer is a hobbyist, lower prices are more typical. If they're trying to get investment capital together and get serious, higher prices are typical. However, there some larger software development companies that contract out all of their R&D and programming, sometimes changing their entire team from project to project. In those cases, the programmers and developers have often already been paid, and the price of the software is as it is in order to recoup the production costs of the firm itself. Depending on the software, this could mean very very high prices or very very low prices. But the point is that the firm selling the software is often separate from the team that developed it in these cases.

Then there is whether or not the market can withstand the asking price. Is the demand severe enough to even move your product at a price point that would recoup your costs in a sustainable amount of time? Can you get away with charging more? Do you have to lower and charge less? Does demand exist at all? What are your competitors charging? Are you offering better products than them? Did your products actually cost less to make? These are all relevant and important questions.

Every time I discuss the DSP software market with my brother, he speaks as though highway robbery is par for the course in the audio field. He cites demonstrable reasons why a majority of DSP pricing is ludicrous, and we'll get into them. Sure, the products are esoteric to begin with, and the price has to reflect the demand. But, there are vastly more examples of blatant overpricing than there are examples of fair pricing. For example, the company Audiority sells a side-filter plugin for $25 USD. This plugin does what stock plugins do for free. So, is that price-point justified when your direct competition is free? I would argue that the high price is the result of reliance on brand loyalty, primarily. But hey, if that's enough to keep you afloat and put food on your family's table, go for it. But, I question the ethics of such a practice. When I tell my brother that something like the Waves Mercury Bundle is upwards of $8000 USD, and that most of the tools included were released between 2005 and 2010, he's immediately skeptical. He says while it is true that you cannot determine what a DSP will sound like based on the year it was released, you can make remarkably accurate inferences about what it doesn't sound like. For example, a DSP released in 2005 was designed to run on 2005 CPUs, so it likely isn't running many complex algorithms (that would tax modern CPUs) in tandem. So, you're likely not expecting remarkable analog emulation from tools that old.

As an example, Wave Arts released the Tube Saturator in 2009. It is actually a very complex and accurate emulation. However, being that accurate made it CPU-heavy for the time, so very few people used it and many more had issues with it. Now, in 2017, that plugin is free and no longer CPU-heavy, relatively speaking. But, I would submit that you won't be able to find such an accurate tube pre emulation in Waves' entire catalog pre-2009, because the technology just wasn't there yet and wasn't even there for what Wave Arts was creating at the time. So, I'd also submit that Waves is likely vastly overcharging for a majority of their tools, assuming there are comparable modern tools to be found for each example. My brother has often given me the impression that DSP consumers and audio techies are so used to getting robbed that we actually believe that getting robbed is a good thing, and we defend blatantly high prices for no logical reason. Is there a defensible reason why an eleven year old plugin must cost $200 when it is guaranteed to not be as sophisticated as a recently released plugin that costs only $75? Perhaps there's a cut-down version of that $75 plugin that is cheaper, if not free. Is there a reason I should choose the SSL E-Channel, bundled at $750, over the CS-3301 at $75? Is there a reason I should choose the CS-3301 over the Dead Duck Channel that is free?

So, let's come back to the side-filter from Audiority. It's $25. I could easily accomplish the same goal with mid-side encoders/decoders and ReaEQ. Easily. How does that reflect on Audiority's pricing model? For $25 all you get is a filter. Is $25 worth it? The MJUC by Klanghelm, which was one of the most heavily researched and rigorously developed independent DSPs released in recent years, is closer to $35. Is it better than ToneBooster's compressor that is comparably priced? Yeah, probably. Hornet's Multicomp is another good example. It's closer to $70, but essentially does most of what Fabfilter's Pro-C 2 does. But Pro-C 2 is around $200. Is the extra $130 worth it? Should someone buy the eleven year old Waves SSL Bundle for $750, or should they buy the regularly updated CS-3301 from TBProAudio for $75? Or buy the regularly updated The Glue by Cytomic for $100? Should you buy IK Multimedia's T-RackS Max bundle for $300, or should you get Slate Digital's entire catalog for $14/month? Some prices are clearly fairer than others, assuming comparable product quality.

So, all in all, whether or not a plugin is worth it or expensive is something that has to be determined by a myriad of factors. Particularly comparing what you're planning on purchasing to the relevant competition. In my experience there is compelling competition for nearly every option available, with very few exceptions. For example, I've yet to find cheaper and higher quality competition for the FG-X by Slate Digital. That tool appears to be truly unique with very few analogues in the market, so the developer could very well justify higher pricepoints.

You also have to consider the extent to which you can reasonably expect your tools to pay you dividends. In the long run, is buying Pro-C 2 going to pay you higher returns than purchasing Hornet's Multicomp Plus 2? I'd argue not. Will spending $200 on SoundToys' Decapitator pay you better dividends than spending $50 on Audio Assault's HeadCrusher? Probably not. Will spending $200 on IQ-Reverb or Pro-R reward you greater than buying ToneBoosters' Reverb v4 at $45? No, probably not. Is buying IK Multimedia's Black 76 for $100 or Waves' CLA 76 for $250 preferable to buying the Klanghelm's MJUC for $35? Will spending $200 on Heavyocity's Punish actually pay for itself more than just using a stock/free plugin chain and correct automation? I don't know. Still leaning toward probably not.

Are some companies ripping you off? Absolutely. I'd argue most of the larger companies are, on some level. The pricing of the independent companies seems a lot more down to Earth in most cases. The larger companies tend to reach a point where their own clout guides them to victory moreso than their actual merits. Companies like Waves, UAD, SoundToys, IK Multimedia, Fabfilter, iZotope, etc. I would consider these all examples of companies that arguably gain more from reputation than quality. That's not to say that they don't produce quality products. The actual question is whether or not that quality can be found elsewhere at a better bargain.

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Old 08-02-2017, 10:41 AM   #51
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Yeah, and water should be cheap too. How hard can it be to take all of those contaminants out of it and get it to run out of my tap?
well it was free in lybia (also housing and bread and oter basic means of life) , for this effrontery the billionaires decided it had to go and sink in chaos death and destruction
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:04 AM   #52
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I'm going to try to answer this question as best I can with the information I have. I'll preface this by saying that I've had many long conversations about software pricing with my brother. My brother is one of the top software developers in my country. I know how pretentious and ostentatious that sounds, but it happens to be the truth. So, I trust his authority on the subject, given his education and having been in those trenches for the last two decades. But, I'll be speaking in my own words, as I understand the situation. As I understand it, the price of software is determined by a small assortment of variables. How specialized the software is, how the software was developed, who developed it, what the market's demand for the software is, etc.

My brother once told me of a $1,000,000 program his office had to purchase from Asia for our local transit service, and how it was a perfectly reasonable price because it was projected to pay for itself very quickly. So, in this example we have a highly specialized piece of software for a very esoteric purpose. It was very expensive, but also paid dividends like crazy.

Sometimes you have software developed by a single person, the sale of which is often the primary source of income for said person. If higher prices are tolerated by the market, it can have a huge impact on that developer's life. Not to mention a direct impact on just how much software they can develop, since making money is necessary for investment and development to begin with. If the lone developer is a hobbyist, lower prices are more typical. If they're trying to get investment capital together and get serious, higher prices are typical. However, there some larger software development companies that contract out all of their R&D and programming, sometimes changing their entire team from project to project. In those cases, the programmers and developers have often already been paid, and the price of the software is as it is in order to recoup the production costs of the firm itself. Depending on the software, this could mean very very high prices or very very low prices. But the point is that the firm selling the software is often separate from the team that developed it in these cases.

Then there is whether or not the market can withstand the asking price. Is the demand severe enough to even move your product at a price point that would recoup your costs in a sustainable amount of time? Can you get away with charging more? Do you have to lower and charge less? Does demand exist at all? What are your competitors charging? Are you offering better products than them? Did your products actually cost less to make? These are all relevant and important questions.

Every time I discuss the DSP software market with my brother, he speaks as though highway robbery is par for the course in the audio field. He cites demonstrable reasons why a majority of DSP pricing is ludicrous, and we'll get into them. Sure, the products are esoteric to begin with, and the price has to reflect the demand. But, there are vastly more examples of blatant overpricing than there are examples of fair pricing. For example, the company Audiority sells a side-filter plugin for $25 USD. This plugin does what stock plugins do for free. So, is that price-point justified when your direct competition is free? I would argue that the high price is the result of reliance on brand loyalty, primarily. But hey, if that's enough to keep you afloat and put food on your family's table, go for it. But, I question the ethics of such a practice. When I tell my brother that something like the Waves Mercury Bundle is upwards of $8000 USD, and that most of the tools included were released between 2005 and 2010, he's immediately skeptical. He says while it is true that you cannot determine what a DSP will sound like based on the year it was released, you can make remarkably accurate inferences about what it doesn't sound like. For example, a DSP released in 2005 was designed to run on 2005 CPUs, so it likely isn't running many complex algorithms (that would tax modern CPUs) in tandem. So, you're likely not expecting remarkable analog emulation from tools that old.

As an example, Wave Arts released the Tube Saturator in 2009. It is actually a very complex and accurate emulation. However, being that accurate made it CPU-heavy for the time, so very few people used it and many more had issues with it. Now, in 2017, that plugin is free and no longer CPU-heavy, relatively speaking. But, I would submit that you won't be able to find such an accurate tube pre emulation in Waves' entire catalog pre-2009, because the technology just wasn't there yet and wasn't even there for what Wave Arts was creating at the time. So, I'd also submit that Waves is likely vastly overcharging for a majority of their tools, assuming there are comparable modern tools to be found for each example. My brother has often given me the impression that DSP consumers and audio techies are so used to getting robbed that we actually believe that getting robbed is a good thing, and we defend blatantly high prices for no logical reason. Is there a defensible reason why an eleven year old plugin must cost $200 when it is guaranteed to not be as sophisticated as a recently released plugin that costs only $75? Perhaps there's a cut-down version of that $75 plugin that is cheaper, if not free. Is there a reason I should choose the SSL E-Channel, bundled at $750, over the CS-3301 at $75? Is there a reason I should choose the CS-3301 over the Dead Duck Channel that is free?

So, let's come back to the side-filter from Audiority. It's $25. I could easily accomplish the same goal with mid-side encoders/decoders and ReaEQ. Easily. How does that reflect on Audiority's pricing model? For $25 all you get is a filter. Is $25 worth it? The MJUC by Klanghelm, which was one of the most heavily researched and rigorously developed independent DSPs released in recent years, is closer to $35. Is it better than ToneBooster's compressor that is comparably priced? Yeah, probably. Hornet's Multicomp is another good example. It's closer to $70, but essentially does most of what Fabfilter's Pro-C 2 does. But Pro-C 2 is around $200. Is the extra $130 worth it? Should someone buy the eleven year old Waves SSL Bundle for $750, or should they buy the regularly updated CS-3301 from TBProAudio for $75? Or buy the regularly updated The Glue by Cytomic for $100? Should you buy IK Multimedia's T-RackS Max bundle for $300, or should you get Slate Digital's entire catalog for $14/month? Some prices are clearly fairer than others, assuming comparable product quality.

So, all in all, whether or not a plugin is worth it or expensive is something that has to be determined by a myriad of factors. Particularly comparing what you're planning on purchasing to the relevant competition. In my experience there is compelling competition for nearly every option available, with very few exceptions. For example, I've yet to find cheaper and higher quality competition for the FG-X by Slate Digital. That tool appears to be truly unique with very few analogues in the market, so the developer could very well justify higher pricepoints.

You also have to consider the extent to which you can reasonably expect your tools to pay you dividends. In the long run, is buying Pro-C 2 going to pay you higher returns than purchasing Hornet's Multicomp Plus 2? I'd argue not. Will spending $200 on SoundToys' Decapitator pay you better dividends than spending $50 on Audio Assault's HeadCrusher? Probably not. Will spending $200 on IQ-Reverb or Pro-R reward you greater than buying ToneBoosters' Reverb v4 at $45? No, probably not. Is buying IK Multimedia's Black 76 for $100 or Waves' CLA 76 for $250 preferable to buying the Klanghelm's MJUC for $35? Will spending $200 on Heavyocity's Punish actually pay for itself more than just using a stock/free plugin chain and correct automation? I don't know. Still leaning toward probably not.

Are some companies ripping you off? Absolutely. I'd argue most of the larger companies are, on some level. The pricing of the independent companies seems a lot more down to Earth in most cases. The larger companies tend to reach a point where their own clout guides them to victory moreso than their actual merits. Companies like Waves, UAD, SoundToys, IK Multimedia, Fabfilter, iZotope, etc. I would consider these all examples of companies that arguably gain more from reputation than quality. That's not to say that they don't produce quality products. The actual question is whether or not that quality can be found elsewhere at a better bargain.
Very well written response. I have to say I'm pretty much in agreement with most of what you've said here.
The Klanghelm MJUC is BY FAR the best character compressor I have in my arsenal regardless of price.
I also own quite a few Waves plugins and some of them are used frequently. I have never paid full price for one though and always got them on special. There are quite a few Waves plugins I've demoed and even on sale, have thought, "meh, don't need!"
Waves eMo D5 dynamics was on sale for 29 dollars yesterday but it wasn't worth it for me. I can achieve all that with ReaGate, ReaComp, Anomaly VOLA EX, and a couple of JS FX for Deessing and Limiting and with more flexibility and effectiveness for free. I would DEFINITELY not contemplate paying full price ($300) for D5 and it isn't even worth $29 to me.
Waves F6 dynamic EQ is another story though. I got that recently for $29 and it is worth every cent and gets used heaps here.
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Old 08-02-2017, 11:08 AM   #53
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The actual question is whether or not that quality can be found elsewhere at a better bargain.
And before I spend as much or more of my time/labor hunting down and testing a bargain equivalent vs just buying one that I already know works exactly as I need. Some enjoy sweat equity (trading money for time and effort), some have more valuable uses of that same time spent.

As far as businesses pricing, it's their call and not really our business (pun intended). What is our business is to look at the price and cast our vote based on whether it's more than we are willing to pay (we purchase or don't purchase). If some portion of those feel it is worth it, why is irrelevant as they are getting what they want also.
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Old 08-02-2017, 01:09 PM   #54
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And before I spend as much or more of my time/labor hunting down and testing a bargain equivalent vs just buying one that I already know works exactly as I need. Some enjoy sweat equity (trading money for time and effort), some have more valuable uses of that same time spent.

As far as businesses pricing, it's their call and not really our business (pun intended). What is our business is to look at the price and cast our vote based on whether it's more than we are willing to pay (we purchase or don't purchase). If some portion of those feel it is worth it, why is irrelevant as they are getting what they want also.
Exactly. Someone had made the point earlier that these companies invest a lot to develop these tools in some cases, and that their asking prices may be perfectly reasonable. However, this is irrelevant to us as consumers. The amount of money dumped into a project and the price that makes sense in relation to the cost of said project doesn't matter at all. The bottom line is whether the market can withstand the price being asked, and whether or not the product is in demand. If you spend millions of dollars of R&D for a product nobody wants, your price (however high or low) may be perfectly reasonable. However, it likely isn't going to be reasonable relative to a market that has no use for what you built. It's multifaceted, for sure. Sometimes the product doesn't even have to cost anything for the market to decide against it. For example, recently there was a free delay plugin released on the KVR forums that was met with almost unanimous disapproval because its design was so mundane. So, in this case, there was development that surely costed money, however, you'd probably have to pay people to use the product itself because it was received with such resistance.
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Old 08-02-2017, 04:24 PM   #55
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BRB Waffles,
Good posts here. Your opinions pretty much tally with my own, echo chamber praise but........

One thing to consider is the Summer, Winter, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, (Waves constant stream of bulk buy bargain sales throughout the year), special deal package prices of the big players plugins are the products real prices, if you can afford to bulk buy.

You mention Sound Toys. I got two of their plugins for free in promotions (as many have here). Now because I'm a Sound Toys loyal user I can have their entire back catalogue package for $199.
So to clarify I bought nothing from them at any point but my brand loyalty gets me the option of all the products they make for less the price you quoted for Decapitator alone.

Arturia also offered a massive unprecedented discount apparently for their collection just a week or two ago, because I owned a free giveaway.

Similarly Look at the NI 50% off Summer Sales.
Combine freebie Drum-Mica to get Kontakt5 "crossgrade" scheme that leads you to "crossgrade" deals in 50% off sale.
Result you can get the collection of NI software for something like 95% off the standard asking price when sold alone!!!

AAS plugins have regular 50% off sales too, more for the package.

So what are the real prices?

As I really wanted a number of these plugins I consider the NI plugins I really wanted as costing me around say £5-10 each.
Little players in the market simply cannot compete against that bulk value of the big players like NI, and yet we still buy lots of product from the others and probably use the stand alone purchases more than the package "bargains".

Another deal trick is the Pre-order where the price of a product is way lower than the full price, until possibly the next sale......

It's partly about knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing. I use my stand alone purchases much more than the glitzy bulk bargains.

How much time do we have to get to know and use all these bargains?
We haven't bought anything physical that we can loan to our friends (only a form of license) so as to getting VFM with a large collection is questionable in some respects, even when it is way cheaper.

Full retail plugin prices on a number of products from the big players are partly theatre.
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Old 08-02-2017, 06:16 PM   #56
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BRB Waffles,
Good posts here. Your opinions pretty much tally with my own, echo chamber praise but........

One thing to consider is the Summer, Winter, Black Friday, Cyber Monday, (Waves constant stream of bulk buy bargain sales throughout the year), special deal package prices of the big players plugins are the products real prices, if you can afford to bulk buy.

You mention Sound Toys. I got two of their plugins for free in promotions (as many have here). Now because I'm a Sound Toys loyal user I can have their entire back catalogue package for $199.
So to clarify I bought nothing from them at any point but my brand loyalty gets me the option of all the products they make for less the price you quoted for Decapitator alone.

Arturia also offered a massive unprecedented discount apparently for their collection just a week or two ago, because I owned a free giveaway.

Similarly Look at the NI 50% off Summer Sales.
Combine freebie Drum-Mica to get Kontakt5 "crossgrade" scheme that leads you to "crossgrade" deals in 50% off sale.
Result you can get the collection of NI software for something like 95% off the standard asking price when sold alone!!!

AAS plugins have regular 50% off sales too, more for the package.

So what are the real prices?

As I really wanted a number of these plugins I consider the NI plugins I really wanted as costing me around say £5-10 each.
Little players in the market simply cannot compete against that bulk value of the big players like NI, and yet we still buy lots of product from the others and probably use the stand alone purchases more than the package "bargains".

Another deal trick is the Pre-order where the price of a product is way lower than the full price, until possibly the next sale......

It's partly about knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing. I use my stand alone purchases much more than the glitzy bulk bargains.

How much time do we have to get to know and use all these bargains?
We haven't bought anything physical that we can loan to our friends (only a form of license) so as to getting VFM with a large collection is questionable in some respects, even when it is way cheaper.

Full retail plugin prices on a number of products from the big players are partly theatre.
I agree that there is a very obvious disconnect between the real value of a tool and the current price of a tool in this particular market. The big box developers let us glimpse the real value every time they do a massive sale and let their inventories go for 90% off. So, I definitely agree that the inflated prices are probably more theatre than an accurate representation of actual value. I myself am like an extreme couponer when it comes to plugins. I've never paid more than $30 CAD for a plugin, and I have way more than I could rightfully use. I stalk the deals and the classifieds forums regularly enough to be pretty thrifty, haha. I recently managed to find NI's SuperCharger for $8.
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Old 08-03-2017, 01:19 AM   #57
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You PAID for Supercharger??? ( )
Agree 100% on the value of patience. I picked up the mega expensive Chris Hein Horns for $150 after waiting a couple of years to catch it on sale.
Worth every penny but I would never have pauid the full retail.
Same for many other plugs.

Mind you I am still balking at the SundToys deal, which I could get for $150 at present. But tempted by echo boy Jr at $49. Anyone tried the demo yet? I hate demoing iLok stuff.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:56 AM   #58
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You PAID for Supercharger??? ( )
Agree 100% on the value of patience. I picked up the mega expensive Chris Hein Horns for $150 after waiting a couple of years to catch it on sale.
Worth every penny but I would never have pauid the full retail.
Same for many other plugs.

Mind you I am still balking at the SundToys deal, which I could get for $150 at present. But tempted by echo boy Jr at $49. Anyone tried the demo yet? I hate demoing iLok stuff.
I was unaware of a way to get it without paying.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:42 AM   #59
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I was unaware of a way to get it without paying.
Replika (basic version) and Supercharger (ditto) were Xmas freebies at one time (not now). Both are respectable plugins.
I have the upgraded licenses of both (GT & XT as nicely priced used user license transfers) and feel they are both fine products of their type. Replika XT is excellent.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:53 AM   #60
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Replika (basic version) and Supercharger (ditto) were Xmas freebies at one time (not now). Both are respectable plugins.
I have the upgraded licenses of both (GT & XT as nicely priced used user license transfers) and feel they are both fine products of their type. Replika XT is excellent.
Ah, not too long ago Ignite VST had a flash giveaway of a couple cool plugins, and I managed to grab them. As far as I know they're back to being $75 each. Yeah, I definitely want to keep my eye open for a second-hand upgrade for SuperCharger.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:00 AM   #61
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Ah, not too long ago Ignite VST had a flash giveaway of a couple cool plugins, and I managed to grab them. As far as I know they're back to being $75 each. Yeah, I definitely want to keep my eye open for a second-hand upgrade for SuperCharger.
It is worth it I feel. Alternatively sometimes 50% off sales of plugins upgrades at NI.
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Old 08-11-2017, 12:14 PM   #62
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Since I got a smartphone and saw how even games are dirt cheap (Asphalt 8 is 1$), I can't help but wonder how the hell all this software (not just plugins) is so expensive.
Apps have commonly more sources of income than just the initial price:
* in-app purchases
* advertisments
* user data

The last one refers to the fact that it's common to sell you personal details (age, gender, etc) plus app usage etc etc to third parties. If you allow the app to get access to contacts and GPS you're selling your friends as well and allow tracking data or yourself to be sold as well.

Anyway, most apps are rather simple ideas rehashed again and again. They probably reuse old code again and again. Just the music and the graphics are new. And as said before the price of software depends also on the number of expected sales. For apps this must be thousands of copies. And even then I don't think that even a single dev could live from the income of a single app.

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Old 08-14-2017, 03:24 PM   #63
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I'm always wondering how great plugins are so cheap.
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Old 08-14-2017, 11:20 PM   #64
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Excellent!

Looking forward to listening to your work.
Still trying to get in touch with my friend who has a record deck but I did get most of the paint off the vinyl!
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Old 08-23-2017, 06:19 PM   #65
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I've pondered (& even asked on this forum) about this before, and I was met with nearly as vehement backlash in the responses to justify the gouging prices of various plugins.

Supply/demand/niche/etc., etc. aside... FabFilter was my developer of choice to use as a target of overly inflated pricing.

If Cockos can survive as a business offering REAPER for a maybe $60 (maybe since can use free unlimited), how can Pro-Q 2 possibly be worth $179?

I mean, REAPER is a complete DAW with bundled plugins, and Pro-Q 2 is only a single EQ plugin. I just don't get it. Does anyone truly believe that more research, development, and coding effort went into the creation and distribution of Pro-Q 2 than REAPER??? C'mon, even Logic Pro X is only $200, and it contains 66 (possibly 100) FX plugins and 21 software instruments. $179 for one EQ plugin?!?!?! I don't think so. At least, not from this wallet.

You guys can defend the ridiculous pricing in this industry all you want, but they're not going to get my money at those prices.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:12 AM   #66
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Did you ever think that maybe some plug-ins are priced as they are because their makers simply don't want to be bothered dealing with the sort of cheapskates who know "the price of everything but the value of nothing" (Oscar Wilde) ?

No idea if that's true and it's not that I'm exactly defending the prices. I currently use only free plug-ins because I'm a cheapskate too. But I can't see any point arguing about them. Music making stuff is a luxury not a necessity of life so it can be priced on any basis the seller chooses. If you don't like the price, you simply don't buy the goods.

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Old 08-24-2017, 09:11 AM   #67
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Damn straight my man. You said it. It's just software. It should be free or dirt cheap. All those rich developers make me sick. Those rich developers may as well be the man. Fuck the man! It's the man's own undoing for choosing software as a profession anyway. Fat cat software developers don't need any more money anyway. Right? Am I right? Fucking 1%ers. Where's the fucking high five icon when I need it?
are you able to do anything useful? or you just want to be famous?
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:27 AM   #68
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We really do need sarcasm and irony emoticons, don't we?
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:01 PM   #69
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are you able to do anything useful? or you just want to be famous?
I am pretty sure the post you're commenting on is sarcasm.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:00 PM   #70
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Where's the fucking high five icon when I need it?


ns
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:04 PM   #71
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Ohh sorry =)
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:12 PM   #72
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I've pondered (& even asked on this forum) about this before, and I was met with nearly as vehement backlash in the responses to justify the gouging prices of various plugins.

Supply/demand/niche/etc., etc. aside... FabFilter was my developer of choice to use as a target of overly inflated pricing.

If Cockos can survive as a business offering REAPER for a maybe $60 (maybe since can use free unlimited), how can Pro-Q 2 possibly be worth $179?

I mean, REAPER is a complete DAW with bundled plugins, and Pro-Q 2 is only a single EQ plugin. I just don't get it. Does anyone truly believe that more research, development, and coding effort went into the creation and distribution of Pro-Q 2 than REAPER??? C'mon, even Logic Pro X is only $200, and it contains 66 (possibly 100) FX plugins and 21 software instruments. $179 for one EQ plugin?!?!?! I don't think so. At least, not from this wallet.

You guys can defend the ridiculous pricing in this industry all you want, but they're not going to get my money at those prices.
I think the power users of Pro-Q 2 probably see it as an extremely refined EQ that allows them to accomplish a productivity level that makes it very valuable.

That said.. I agree that it is hard to understand that full blows DAW and an EQ plugin balance the scales..

This just goes to show the best approach for the casual user is to avoid collecting plugins (especially ones you don't need), watch for deals, and of course... use REAPER
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:28 PM   #73
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I'm defending the ability to live in a world where I have the choice too choose whatever I want to buy. I'm also defending a world where I could start a business (whatever type) and decide for myself what I charge and how I make my living and hope the market agrees. I don't have to tell anyone else how much it cost me to run my business or how much I hope to earn because it is wait for it.... "my farking business".

Secondly, it's not our business why it costs what it does, I don't understand why people never seem to understand that. If they don't like it, think they are getting ripped off, don't buy it, that's their market vote - use it intelligently but don't be upset if everyone else doesn't cast the same vote. If they think it's the best thing since sliced bread, they should be able to buy it.... the more important point is having the choice.

For example, there is a reason I don't own the Waves Mercury Bundle, I think the price is ridiculous but I could care less that they charge that or whomever else feels it is a good deal. Actually, it's more reasonable now. When it was first out in the late 90s ish, it was $10k.
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Old 08-25-2017, 08:54 AM   #74
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I'm defending the ability to live in a world where I have the choice too choose whatever I want to buy. I'm also defending a world where I could start a business (whatever type) and decide for myself what I charge and how I make my living and hope the market agrees. I don't have to tell anyone else how much it cost me to run my business or how much I hope to earn because it is wait for it.... "my farking business".

Secondly, it's not our business why it costs what it does, I don't understand why people never seem to understand that. If they don't like it, think they are getting ripped off, don't buy it, that's their market vote - use it intelligently but don't be upset if everyone else doesn't cast the same vote. If they think it's the best thing since sliced bread, they should be able to buy it.... the more important point is having the choice.

For example, there is a reason I don't own the Waves Mercury Bundle, I think the price is ridiculous but I could care less that they charge that or whomever else feels it is a good deal. Actually, it's more reasonable now. When it was first out in the late 90s ish, it was $10k.

well said.

I probably wont splurge on Fabfilter plugs (yet).. but superior drummmer 3... ermmm... wheres my wallet.

And if I were a professional, and wanted the best workflow possible. I would definitely be looking at the Fabfilter stuff (among others). I've watched many of the videos and their stuff looks amazing.

I do remember the 10k waves bundles.. crazy
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:08 AM   #75
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The Genwave EQ debacle...

I'm still convinced it was just an elaborate April Fools joke.
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Old 08-26-2017, 03:57 AM   #76
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Cant resist. Apparently BigBean software is now HasBean Software....
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:58 AM   #77
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what would it cost them?? its just software!
What does it cost you? It's just music...
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