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Old 03-22-2020, 07:06 AM   #41
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I think you're getting there.

My lag issue, which manifests a little differently than yours, also appears related to the number of plugins, but in my case it's only three or more instances (on separate tracks) of a plugin known to be fairly resource-hungry, Analog Lab 4. And like you, both Reaper's monitor and Windows show CPU at about 30% peak/avg and plenty of RAM available. Aaaand, I'm able to run 8 or more instances of that same plugin in Ableton Live Lite without any performance issues.
Yea but I just confirmed that it happens regardless of the actual plugins enabled and seems to be related more to the number of plugins...

Here is another screen grab where I click on the timeline and then have to sit there and watch a spinning wheel for a few seconds before Reaper decideds to respond... seriously WTF is this shit? I want to mix some music and I can't and instead I have to sit here stabbing in the dark and fiddling with esoteric config tweaks and troubleshotting processes that don't actually reveal anything. And noone has been able to pinpoint the reason why. Is reaper just turning into hot garbage? If the program just simply cannot handle large track counts and a couple of dozen plugin counts then they should just advertise the fact so we don't waste all our time trying to get it to work.

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Old 03-22-2020, 07:12 AM   #42
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Your project is using 18GB of memory - you need to understand explain why that is. I'm also almost positive you have something in your project that is highly iterative in the background like scripts et al that's causing this issue - it clearly looks like something is blocking the GUI thread, just sayin'.

On a side note due to a previous issue, make sure no plugin windows are visible (all hidden) when this happens to rule that one out.
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Old 03-22-2020, 07:28 AM   #43
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Your project is using 18GB of memory - you need to understand explain why that is. I'm also almost positive you have something in your project that is highly iterative in the background like scripts et al that's causing this issue - it clearly looks like something is blocking the GUI thread, just sayin'.
I am using around 10 gigs of RAM for samples in SD3 which is not unusual once you have a full kit with some layered drums. The other 8 gigs... I have no idea where that is coming from. But I have a PC with 32 gigs of ram which I bought precisely just so that I didn't have to worry about running out of RAM headroom when working with samplers and VSTIs. Even with 18 gigs taken up I should still have another 14 gigs of free RAM which considering so many people get away with only having 8gigs or 16gigs of RAM on their computers should mean this should not be causing issues.

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On a side note due to a previous issue, make sure no plugin windows are visible (all hidden) when this happens to rule that one out.
They are all hidden.
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Old 03-22-2020, 07:41 AM   #44
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I am using around 10 gigs of RAM for samples in SD3 which is not unusual once you have a full kit with some layered drums. The other 8 gigs... I have no idea where that is coming from. But I have a PC with 32 gigs of ram which I bought precisely just so that I didn't have to worry about running out of RAM headroom when working with samplers and VSTIs. Even with 18 gigs taken up I should still have another 14 gigs of free RAM which considering so many people get away with only having 8gigs or 16gigs of RAM on their computers should mean this should not be causing issues.
I didn't say anything about running out of RAM - I also said at least in one of your GIFs the GUI thread is clearly being blocked - hope you find whats going on soon.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:00 AM   #45
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I didn't say anything about running out of RAM - I also said at least in one of your GIFs the GUI thread is clearly being blocked - hope you find whats going on soon.
You said:
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Your project is using 18GB of memory - you need to understand explain why that is.
And I explained where the RAM usage was coming from subce you said I needed to explain it which suggests that it has something to do with my problem.

But anyway I have already ruled it out because even when I had put SD3 in offline mode and just brought the other VSTs online the project was already getting sluggish.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:21 AM   #46
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You said:


And I explained where the RAM usage was coming from subce you said I needed to explain it which suggests that it has something to do with my problem.

But anyway I have already ruled it out because even when I had put SD3 in offline mode and just brought the other VSTs online the project was already getting sluggish.
That much RAM means the is the potential to have a very large number of objects of some type to be iterated through and that can block the GUI thread - It's also clear from at least one screenshot that the GUI thread is being blocked.

I thought there was also mention of various scripts being used, some of which IIRC run in the background all the time and are also subject to a lot of iteration as the project size increases. I'm fairly certain you cannot repro this with a blank project with no plugins or scripts of any kind running in memory. If you can, then the first course of action is to use that blank project to troubleshoot instead.

There is also no 100% test of ruling out something that is loaded in reaper unless it is completely non-existent in the project. I could fix or at least diagnose this in short order but there's so much "no that can't be it in the replies" that would just take way longer than it should. I'm not pointing a finger at anyone all it's just the fact of the matter when troubleshooting via human proxy over the internet.

If I were standing there with you, we'd knock this out in 15 minutes.
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:54 AM   #47
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That much RAM means the is the potential to have a very large number of objects of some type to be iterated through and that can block the GUI thread - It's also clear from at least one screenshot that the GUI thread is being blocked.
Yea ok even if this is the case, then what do I actually do about it? I have a VSTi in this project that is using 10 gigs of samples. What now? Also why does the project lag even when this VSTi and all its samples are offline?

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I thought there was also mention of various scripts being used, some of which IIRC run in the background all the time and are also subject to a lot of iteration as the project size increases.
I don't have any scripts that "run in the background all the time" as far as I know, since you know something I don't can you tell me which script I mentioned above runs in the background so that I can turn it off?


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I'm fairly certain you cannot repro this with a blank project with no plugins or scripts of any kind running in memory. If you can, then the first course of action is to use that blank project to troubleshoot instead.
I am not sure what exactly you are suggesting I do. I already said that I took all the plugins offline and the problem went away but as I started bringing them in about 30 plugin instances in and the problems started to re-appear. So it is a given that a blank project is not going to have these problems.

If you are suggesting I re-build my project inside a blank project that would require me to rebuild the project track by track, item by item, plugin by plugin from scratch to see if I end up in the same place or not. Is this what you are suggesting I do? Because if I was going to do that I would much rather just rebuild the project from scratch inside Pro Tools and just be done with it...

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There is also no 100% test of ruling out something that is loaded in reaper unless it is completely non-existent in the project. I could fix or at least diagnose this in short order but there's so much "no that can't be it in the replies" that would just take way longer than it should.
Really not sure what you are suggesting I do differently, everything concrete that has been suggested so far I have tried. Can you specifically say what you think I should try next? If I understood correctly your suggestions so far were to

1. hide all my fx windows which I confirmed were hidden.
2. turn off any background scripts to which I replied that I am not aware of any scripts running in the background.
3. pointing out that my GUI thread was being blocked which if so I have no idea what to do about

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If I were standing there with you, we'd knock this out in 15 minutes.
So what do you think you would do in those 15 mins that I can't do myself?
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Old 03-22-2020, 09:29 AM   #48
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Yea ok even if this is the case, then what do I actually do about it? I have a VSTi in this project that is using 10 gigs of samples. What now? Also why does the project lag even when this VSTi and all its samples are offline?
I wouldn't worry about what to do about it, until is is formally ruled in as part of the problem. I agree offline "should" be sufficient but that isn't 100% proof unless Justin et al says so.

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I don't have any scripts that "run in the background all the time" as far as I know, since you know something I don't can you tell me which script I mentioned above runs in the background so that I can turn it off?
I though't heda's script ran in the background, I'm not blaming his script, I'm totally agnostic but I let nothing off the hook until 100% proven and not assumed.

It looked to me like something is processing or being iterated through in the background and this is blocking the GUI thread - which is why it can be so frustrating to the user.

Side question: how many total items on the timeline in the project?

Quote:
So it is a given that a blank project is not going to have these problems.
Right, so troubleshooting 101 is start with a blank project and add stuff back until it slows down or... my other *suggestion further down.

Quote:
If you are suggesting I re-build my project inside a blank project that would require me to rebuild the project track by track, item by item, plugin by plugin from scratch to see if I end up in the same place or not. Is this what you are suggesting I do? Because if I was going to do that I would much rather just rebuild the project from scratch inside Pro Tools and just be done with it...
I think you could have completed this faster in order to find the culprit than time invested thus far because you'd start with the most likely suspects first and likely never have to rebuild the entire project end-to-end.


Quote:
1. hide all my fx windows which I confirmed were hidden.
2. turn off any background scripts to which I replied that I am not aware of any scripts running in the background.
3. pointing out that my GUI thread was being blocked which if so I have no idea what to do about
*I'd make a copy of the project and delete entire tracks one at a time until it no longer repros. That's about the closest you will get to not going the other direction with a blank project.

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So what do you think you would do in those 15 mins that I can't do myself?
As mentioned for your symptoms, the first thing would be to make a copy and delete tracks one at a time, it has to stop reproing at some point - once that is isolated it depends on what that track or tracks are then I would narrow that by removing things from the actual track - the reason I say it might be faster for me is because I troubleshoot performance for a living and what looks normal to one person might really stand out to me, that's all.

Many of the things above are quick and easy and if done right, the whole point is to test in such away that it's not possible to be the issue instead of "shouldn't" be the issue, doing it like this reduces chasing our tails exponentially. Think of it this way, there are a finite number of items on the problem table, if we methodically remove them one at a time so that we can be 100% sure it's not the reason, each item leaves the table never to return and eventually the only thing left on the table in all it's glory is the problem - if there is even a 1% chance we are wrong, said item to check should not leave the table.

If you could at least complete the above explicitly, and that doesn't shed light on the culprit - If I have time I can possibly come up with some tools/tracing when I get back home later tonight, but I honestly don't think it will go that far.


Edit: regarding plugin windows, thanks for doing that - there is rare but real conflict when certain plugins are installed that will cause a GUI hang (5-30 seconds) with the video card drivers (maybe open GL?) and it only occurs when such plugins are loaded and visible/popped out (I see it intermittently with Waves and FabFilter being used at the same time) - I just wanted you to close them to confirm it wasn't that so thanks!
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:00 AM   #49
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I wouldn't worry about what to do about it, until is is formally ruled in as part of the problem. I agree offline "should" be sufficient but that isn't 100% proof unless Justin et al says so.



I though't heda's script ran in the background, I'm not blaming his script, I'm totally agnostic but I let nothing off the hook until 100% proven and not assumed.

It looked to me like something is processing or being iterated through in the background and this is blocking the GUI thread - which is why it can be so frustrating to the user.

Side question: how many total items on the timeline in the project?



Right, so troubleshooting 101 is start with a blank project and add stuff back until it slows down or... my other *suggestion further down.



I think you could have completed this faster in order to find the culprit than time invested thus far because you'd start with the most likely suspects first and likely never have to rebuild the entire project end-to-end.




*I'd make a copy of the project and delete entire tracks one at a time until it no longer repros. That's about the closest you will get to not going the other direction with a blank project.



As mentioned for your symptoms, the first thing would be to make a copy and delete tracks one at a time, it has to stop reproing at some point - once that is isolated it depends on what that track or tracks are then I would narrow that by removing things from the actual track - the reason I say it might be faster for me is because I troubleshoot performance for a living and what looks normal to one person might really stand out to me, that's all.

Many of the things above are quick and easy and if done right, the whole point is to test in such away that it's not possible to be the issue instead of "shouldn't" be the issue, doing it like this reduces chasing our tails exponentially. Think of it this way, there are a finite number of items on the problem table, if we methodically remove them one at a time so that we can be 100% sure it's not the reason, each item leaves the table never to return and eventually the only thing left on the table in all it's glory is the problem - if there is even a 1% chance we are wrong, said item to check should not leave the table.

If you could at least complete the above explicitly, and that doesn't shed light on the culprit - If I have time I can possibly come up with some tools/tracing when I get back home later tonight, but I honestly don't think it will go that far.


Edit: regarding plugin windows, thanks for doing that - there is rare but real conflict when certain plugins are installed that will cause a GUI hang (5-30 seconds) with the video card drivers (maybe open GL?) and it only occurs when such plugins are loaded and visible/popped out (I see it intermittently with Waves and FabFilter being used at the same time) - I just wanted you to close them to confirm it wasn't that so thanks!
This whole thing might be way less tedious for both of us if I just send you the project and you open it on your end and see if you can run it. You also have the added benefit of not having any of my scripts on your machine.
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:48 AM   #50
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I complete removed SD3 and the 10gigs of samples it was using in the proeject. No difference in performance. Maybe slightly better but still unacceptable. Reaper now only shows to be using 4gigs of RAM in the Task Manager and still I can't get smooth muting/unmuting or seeking and navigating.
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Old 03-22-2020, 11:53 AM   #51
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I also removed the other VSTi in the project which was an instance of kontakt. Still pretty crappy performance. Also considering that most of my plugins were effecting the outputs of these two VST instruments it also means that without these 2 plugins the other plugins aren't doing anything either, they are all just sitting there without any audio going through them and still I have to wait seconds for Reaper to respond everytime I just want to relocate the playhead and I cant even mute and unmute a group of tracks smoothly.
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Old 03-22-2020, 04:23 PM   #52
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It would have been better (and saved even more back and forth), to have just deleted tracks one at a time and report back. There were a few reasons for just deleting tracks until it was gone.

Muting won't ever be 100% smooth FYI, that's a FR/bug whatever you want to call it.

Seeking is often track count related (if audio files and the time it takes for playback to start) but I'll have to explain all that some other day though I have several threads on it going back to 2011 or so with a full explanation and analysis.
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:12 PM   #53
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It would have been better (and saved even more back and forth), to have just deleted tracks one at a time and report back. There were a few reasons for just deleting tracks until it was gone.
I was going to bed then so I just did a quick test before signing off, I will do the track by track thing now...

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Muting won't ever be 100% smooth FYI, that's a FR/bug whatever you want to call it.
Are you telling me this is normal? Is it supposed to get laggier and laggier the bigger the project gets?



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Seeking is often track count related (if audio files and the time it takes for playback to start) but I'll have to explain all that some other day though I have several threads on it going back to 2011 or so with a full explanation and analysis.
So you are saying my track count affects how quickly Reaper responds to a command to reposition the playhead even when it is not actually playing anything back? Also what does track count have to do with Reaper behaving differently depending on where I click to reposition the playhead?
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:31 PM   #54
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I am going through the process of deleting one track at a time and it is as I suspected. There is no one track that when deleted gives me a massive boost in performance. With each track that is removed its like Reaper gets slightly quicker at responding, until I get to a point where the load is light enough that the performance becomes acceptable but that bar is way too low for my liking. So what now? Is it just that Reaper cannot handle large track counts as good as other DAWs? Because I would like to know this as it means I should work all my work over to another DAW ASAP.
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:42 PM   #55
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Do you mean FX on the master track? Not sure what you mean...
Screenshot from REAPER Docu
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cMEhfJz5XfEqFXKJ6
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:53 PM   #56
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The performance becomes borderline acceptable with 80 tracks (most of which are literally empty and not doing anything) with 128 FX instances (again most of which aren't even processing audio) with a CPU load that barely gets above 19% when playing. So this is as good as Reaper gets? Anything more and we're in stutter and lag territroy?
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Old 03-22-2020, 10:56 PM   #57
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I am not using any monitoring FX
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Old 03-23-2020, 05:44 AM   #58
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have you tried switching the theme?
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:31 AM   #59
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When you go check the driver status in 'device manager' does it look good - or is there an ! mark at the soundcard driver(s)?

I've had similar symptoms with sluggishness (and in device manager the driver showed problems) - I fixed it by re-installing the soundcard driver with the bios set to the 'legacy-setting'.
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Old 03-23-2020, 06:54 AM   #60
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The performance becomes borderline acceptable with 80 tracks (most of which are literally empty and not doing anything) with 128 FX instances (again most of which aren't even processing audio) with a CPU load that barely gets above 19% when playing.
The Realtime CPU number could be worth checking too, maybe more so than the total CPU, because it tells you how heavy load you have in the (real time) audio thread. To see that, open the Performance Meter, then select the options from the right click menu over it.
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Old 03-23-2020, 08:26 AM   #61
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So you are saying my track count affects how quickly Reaper responds to a command to reposition the playhead even when it is not actually playing anything back?
No I'm not saying that. I'm talking about moving the cursor to a new position being plenty fast. but there being a delay between pressing play and playback actually beginning. Thanks for deleting tracks one by one, if it only gets better as you remove track after track and no single track or tracks seems to be a culprit, I was sort of hoping that wouldn't be the result.

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Also what does track count have to do with Reaper behaving differently depending on where I click to reposition the playhead?
I can't find my full analysis but you can trust this - read it very closely:

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...79&postcount=6

Extra credit below but I don't see much value in reading it because it's old, long and likely more complex than the issue you are seeing, and not necessarily a help.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=84170

+1 on RT CPU check.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:24 PM   #62
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have you tried switching the theme?
Yes. No change.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:25 PM   #63
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When you go check the driver status in 'device manager' does it look good - or is there an ! mark at the soundcard driver(s)?

I've had similar symptoms with sluggishness (and in device manager the driver showed problems) - I fixed it by re-installing the soundcard driver with the bios set to the 'legacy-setting'.
-W
Yes driver is fine. And again as I said earlier the problem is present even when I use another audio interface which obviously uses a completely different driver.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:26 PM   #64
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The Realtime CPU number could be worth checking too, maybe more so than the total CPU, because it tells you how heavy load you have in the (real time) audio thread. To see that, open the Performance Meter, then select the options from the right click menu over it.
Ok I will check this and report back. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:28 PM   #65
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No I'm not saying that. I'm talking about moving the cursor to a new position being plenty fast. but there being a delay between pressing play and playback actually beginning. Thanks for deleting tracks one by one, if it only gets better as you remove track after track and no single track or tracks seems to be a culprit, I was sort of hoping that wouldn't be the result.
I was sorta pretty sure that's what would happen, because even before removing the tracks one by one I could see it getting sluggish as I brought the fx back online after taking them all offline. I suspected the tracks would behave similarly.



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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I can't find my full analysis but you can trust this - read it very closely:

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...79&postcount=6

Extra credit below but I don't see much value in reading it because it's old, long and likely more complex than the issue you are seeing, and not necessarily a help.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=84170

+1 on RT CPU check.
OK I'll look into it thanks. Any other suggestions for troubleshooting? Can someone else open this project on their machine and tell me if its sluggish or if its just on my machine?
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:59 PM   #66
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I'm talking about moving the cursor to a new position being plenty fast. but there being a delay between pressing play and playback actually beginning.
Also to clarify this isn't the only problem, as the gifs above show there is actually a long pause before Reaper re-positions the cursor that is before even pressing play and waiting for playback to start.
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Old 03-24-2020, 12:05 AM   #67
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Heavy samplerate conversion while playing?
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:50 PM   #68
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The Realtime CPU number could be worth checking too, maybe more so than the total CPU, because it tells you how heavy load you have in the (real time) audio thread. To see that, open the Performance Meter, then select the options from the right click menu over it.
Ok so RT CPU hovers around 8% during playback. When I stop playback and just want to reposition the playhead by clicking somewhere on the ruler it shoots up to 200% momentarily. But if I do exactly the same thing and click on an item to navigate the RT CPU doesn't change at all. This is clearly a bug. WTH is going on here?
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Old 03-24-2020, 07:51 PM   #69
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Heavy samplerate conversion while playing?
No. Everything is in 48k.
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Old 03-24-2020, 11:07 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I can't find my full analysis but you can trust this - read it very closely:

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...79&postcount=6

Extra credit below but I don't see much value in reading it because it's old, long and likely more complex than the issue you are seeing, and not necessarily a help.

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=84170

+1 on RT CPU check.
I went through that I really don't see the relevance of much of that to my situation. I am not even pushing my system to its limit like you were in that experiment and barely have a handful of actual audio files on the tracks in my project playing at any given time (instead of the 250 in your project). Also I am not geting any flashing red lights anywhere.
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Old 03-25-2020, 06:09 AM   #71
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Hi,

I had one problem project once. What I did was save all the tracks as a track template, then open a new empty project and load the the track template into the new song. It then worked.
Gl

Edit..also,I've had pauses on play/resetting cursor b4. The problem in my case was midi hard reset setting in vsts.
And....do you have any reacontrolmidi fx on any track? It midi channel setting defaults to all and with a few of those there can be high system overhead on play.

Last edited by LugNut; 03-25-2020 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 03-25-2020, 07:30 AM   #72
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I went through that I really don't see the relevance of much of that to my situation. I am not even pushing my system to its limit like you were in that experiment and barely have a handful of actual audio files on the tracks in my project playing at any given time (instead of the 250 in your project). Also I am not geting any flashing red lights anywhere.
I didn't expect that to be it but thanks for ruling it out, I still think it is CPU contention in the background holding up the GUI thread.
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Old 03-25-2020, 11:41 AM   #73
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Not sure if this will work with you, but I had the same problems until I turned off saving of the undo history. Huge, huge, huge.

For details, go to this thread. Post # 22

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....61#post2253661

I can't promise that's what your issue is, but it certainly made a difference for me. Hope that helps!
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Old 03-31-2020, 02:31 AM   #74
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Unless all your plugs are VST3 you probably need to remove them from the project, not just take them offline. VST3 plugs don't process without incoming audio, but VST2 plugs run all the time (at least this is the case if the host and plugin developers took advantage of this feature of VST3 spec). But if we're at the point of removing whole tracks this probably isn't relevant anymore.

This is a big one, but so obvious that it barely deserves mentioning: you do have anticipative FX processing turned on in preferences, right? Check it under Preferences>Audio,Buffering. Make sure both "Allow Live FX Multiprocessing" and "Allow Anticipative FX Processing" are both ticked.


Check your Performance tab and see what the score is for your plugs in terms of PDC; if there is one plug or one track that is reporting monstrous amounts of PDC remove the plugs on that track or take them offline and see what kind of effect, if any, it has.


I have experienced some minor sluggishness when I've been working with some VSTis and I need to navigate around a project; they need to sync up internally with what I'm doing in the host and there can be a slight delay. I've never experienced anything like your problem, but if it gets better when VSTis are taken offline or removed then an uninstall/reinstall of those VSTis might help. But I'm just spitballing here.


I know this kind of thing can be extremely frustrating, and I've been there, but we're going to help you get to the bottom of this. Reaper is not defective, it doesn't choke at 32 plugins, in fact Reaper virtually always beats other DAWs in terms of track counts and plugin instances. Just bear in mind that there are some very knowledgeable and experienced people here who work in very relevant fields (I am not one of them, obviously) and if they suggest that you try something it's probably a good idea to just try what they say rather than telling them why you think their suggestion wouldn't be related to your problem.

I know it sucks to be up against a wall that's stopping your creativity, but there is an answer and we'll find it. In terms of getting help, this is the best forum I've ever been on.

(Oh yeah, can you resize or get rid of that large pic in your first post at the top of this page? I have to scroll like a typewriter left and right to read anything. Thank you. )
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Old 04-01-2020, 05:48 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Riot View Post
Unless all your plugs are VST3 you probably need to remove them from the project, not just take them offline. VST3 plugs don't process without incoming audio, but VST2 plugs run all the time (at least this is the case if the host and plugin developers took advantage of this feature of VST3 spec). But if we're at the point of removing whole tracks this probably isn't relevant anymore.

This is a big one, but so obvious that it barely deserves mentioning: you do have anticipative FX processing turned on in preferences, right? Check it under Preferences>Audio,Buffering. Make sure both "Allow Live FX Multiprocessing" and "Allow Anticipative FX Processing" are both ticked.


Check your Performance tab and see what the score is for your plugs in terms of PDC; if there is one plug or one track that is reporting monstrous amounts of PDC remove the plugs on that track or take them offline and see what kind of effect, if any, it has.


I have experienced some minor sluggishness when I've been working with some VSTis and I need to navigate around a project; they need to sync up internally with what I'm doing in the host and there can be a slight delay. I've never experienced anything like your problem, but if it gets better when VSTis are taken offline or removed then an uninstall/reinstall of those VSTis might help. But I'm just spitballing here.


I know this kind of thing can be extremely frustrating, and I've been there, but we're going to help you get to the bottom of this. Reaper is not defective, it doesn't choke at 32 plugins, in fact Reaper virtually always beats other DAWs in terms of track counts and plugin instances. Just bear in mind that there are some very knowledgeable and experienced people here who work in very relevant fields (I am not one of them, obviously) and if they suggest that you try something it's probably a good idea to just try what they say rather than telling them why you think their suggestion wouldn't be related to your problem.

I know it sucks to be up against a wall that's stopping your creativity, but there is an answer and we'll find it. In terms of getting help, this is the best forum I've ever been on.

(Oh yeah, can you resize or get rid of that large pic in your first post at the top of this page? I have to scroll like a typewriter left and right to read anything. Thank you. )
I feel like now we are just going around in circles... I have pretty much either tried everything you mention or already ruled it out... it is NOT a faulty plugin, I DO HAVE anticipative FX processsing on, I literally REMOVED ALL VSTi and it didn't help. I appreciate everyone's input but I am finding it a bit frustrating and bizarre that I am being told that I haven't tried the solutions people have suggested when I have and still I am not getting anywhere and not only that but noone can even explain why the weird GUI problem happens WHEN REAPER IS LITERALLY NOT DOING ANYTHING.

So if you believe I haven't tried to resolve the issue by following the instructions, please give me a specific troubleshooting step to take which I haven't already tried (or have refused to try) and I will do it.
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Old 04-01-2020, 06:50 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bunker View Post
I feel like now we are just going around in circles...
Of the items that are no longer on our "problem table", you might categorically list them in the first thread, literally in an easy to consume organized fashion, bullets if needed and refer people to it as needed. This will also be your sanity checks of what you have actually done and the results. Be specific, not too wordy.

Or just deal with the hodgepodge that comes without having that reference.

Quote:
I am not getting anywhere and not only that but noone can even explain why the weird GUI problem happens WHEN REAPER IS LITERALLY NOT DOING ANYTHING.
I've explained a few times that it 'looks' like the GUI thread is blocked, waiting on something else, we just don't know what that is. You want to adjust your thinking about what could block a GUI (until we know more).

You will need to do the leg work on the below and when I have time I'll look:

1. Download, extract and run SysInternals Process Monitor while the issue occurs. You'll want to time this so if you can do whatever that causes the hang, have that ready at a moments notice. Start procmon, reproduce the hang as fast as possible let it stay hung for 30 seconds or until it stops (whichever comes first). Stop the trace, File > Save AS (.PML), zip and figure out how I can get my hands on it. == again, this tool logs a LOT of log lines so keep it short but capturing the problem ==

2. Download ProcDump from SysInternals, extract to a directory you can easily get to with a command line. Let's use C:\Temp. Right-click the Start Menu > Run > cmd.exe - then type the following commands to get to C:\Temp

C:
CD \
CD Temp

If you do not have a C:\temp directory then do this instead:

C:
CD \
mkdir Temp
CD Temp

Same drill, be ready to repro! Except this time you need to start the repro then procdump asap so all you have to do is press enter in cmd.exe - this is critical because this will create 5 dumps 5 seconds apart - So there needs to be at least three dumps that were taken during the hang:

procdump -s 5 -n 5 reaper.exe

Zip the lot of it into a zip file. Send me a project file as well at your convenience.

I can't promise anything but if you can make the above happen on your own, I will review the procmon trace and memory dumps. Since I don't have Reaper code symbols, I won't be able to see much but there is a slight chance I can tell what's holding up the GUI thread or confirm/deny that as the main symptom - so even if inconclusive, it's a very targeted test for explicit reasons. It's also remotely possible a dev could see this thread and peek at the data, but let's do what we know we can do first.
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Old 04-01-2020, 09:01 PM   #77
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I’m no expert. I did have a similar issue. I eventually gave up trying to figure out what was causing the issue and did a full reinstall of windows and programs. This fixed everything, back up to being able to run more plugins than I can use and no more lags.
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Old 04-02-2020, 03:36 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Of the items that are no longer on our "problem table", you might categorically list them in the first thread, literally in an easy to consume organized fashion, bullets if needed and refer people to it as needed. This will also be your sanity checks of what you have actually done and the results. Be specific, not too wordy.

Or just deal with the hodgepodge that comes without having that reference.
Ok fair call, I will go and edit the original post so that it states the steps I have taken so there is less confusion when communicating. I guess I just didn't expect to still be tlaking about this issue 2 pages into this thread lol but yes I can see that it can be a bit difficult to consume now that it has reached this point. Thanks for the suggestion.



Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I've explained a few times that it 'looks' like the GUI thread is blocked, waiting on something else, we just don't know what that is. You want to adjust your thinking about what could block a GUI (until we know more).
Yes I get this... I am just not sure what I am supposed to do in response to this discovery. Like I thought you were telling me this several times and then somehow expecting me to do something to rectify it when I have absolutely no idea how to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
You will need to do the leg work on the below and when I have time I'll look:

1. Download, extract and run SysInternals Process Monitor while the issue occurs. You'll want to time this so if you can do whatever that causes the hang, have that ready at a moments notice. Start procmon, reproduce the hang as fast as possible let it stay hung for 30 seconds or until it stops (whichever comes first). Stop the trace, File > Save AS (.PML), zip and figure out how I can get my hands on it. == again, this tool logs a LOT of log lines so keep it short but capturing the problem ==

2. Download ProcDump from SysInternals, extract to a directory you can easily get to with a command line. Let's use C:\Temp. Right-click the Start Menu > Run > cmd.exe - then type the following commands to get to C:\Temp

C:
CD \
CD Temp

If you do not have a C:\temp directory then do this instead:

C:
CD \
mkdir Temp
CD Temp

Same drill, be ready to repro! Except this time you need to start the repro then procdump asap so all you have to do is press enter in cmd.exe - this is critical because this will create 5 dumps 5 seconds apart - So there needs to be at least three dumps that were taken during the hang:

procdump -s 5 -n 5 reaper.exe

Zip the lot of it into a zip file. Send me a project file as well at your convenience.

I can't promise anything but if you can make the above happen on your own, I will review the procmon trace and memory dumps. Since I don't have Reaper code symbols, I won't be able to see much but there is a slight chance I can tell what's holding up the GUI thread or confirm/deny that as the main symptom - so even if inconclusive, it's a very targeted test for explicit reasons. It's also remotely possible a dev could see this thread and peek at the data, but let's do what we know we can do first.
Ok thanks for the suggestion. I will give this a go and report back. Appreciate that you are sticking with this and still trying to help me.

Hope everyone is staying healthy and safe in these times!

I will report back soon.
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Old 04-02-2020, 04:00 PM   #79
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It's all good, you stay safe as well!
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Old 04-02-2020, 06:28 PM   #80
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First post now editted to summarise all the steps I have taken so far, hopefully I didn't leave anything out... bed time for me now, I probably won't get to try out the other suggestions in the post above until Sunday or Monday but I'll report back then. Everyone have a good weekend.
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