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Old 07-21-2012, 03:53 AM   #1
Eyes
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Default Reaper MIDI zoom issues and why these are such a problem

This is a list of issues relating to zooming in the midi editor. These issues cause workflow disruptions for potentially everyone who uses Reaper for composition or any function related to midi.

The screenshots and functions described are done so running Reaper 64 bit on Windows 7, 64 bit. My machine is custom built for composition (I77, SSD drives for samples, 8gig ram etc) so it hopefully isn't a client issue, I know many other users have mentioned these things before. If I am incorrect in any of these points please state so and I will amend this post. My Reaper install is completely new, I have cleared all data and reinstalled this from scratch without importing anything to ensure configurations are not causing issues.


1) Initial zoom level of a clip is dependent on the size of the clip

So if a clip is 8 bars long the initial zoom when opening the clip is zoomed out too far to far to accurately view the contents, and the first thing a user has to do is zoom in. Regardless of the size of a clip, a user needs to be able to edit it at an appropriate level.

[IMG]http://img7.**************/img7/2344/1initialzoomfar.jpg[/IMG]


Put this in retrospective, imagine if Excel had this behavior and decided it wanted to show you all the data in a sheet when you first opened it - meaning every single time you would need to zoom in to actually read the data. For example:


[IMG]http://img690.**************/img690/5872/2spreadsheetzoom1.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://img194.**************/img194/7715/3spreadsheetzoomfar.jpg[/IMG]


Can you begin to imagine how many complaints Microsoft would get if Excel behaved in that way? If Word behaved in that way? That is the way Reaper behaves and something midi users have to deal with, every time they open a new clip.



2) Zoom level is not remembered

The midi editor does not remember the last used zoom level. This, tied with the previous point, means a user has to constantly battle the view ability of the midi clip they are trying to work on.



3) Space before bar 0

Reaper constantly adds space before bar 0 when zooming, which does not achieve anything. For example:


[IMG]http://img820.**************/img820/4104/4spacebeforebar0small.jpg[/IMG]


That is a small amount of space that constantly shows before bar 0. However combined with point 1, large clips can show excessive amount of space when opening a large clip and zooming:


[IMG]http://img687.**************/img687/5203/5spacebeforebar0large.jpg[/IMG]


Seriously, why do we need to view bar negative 40? What is a negative bar in terms of midi composition? Why does the clip take up a tiny amount of space while the majority of the editor is given to negative space or space that a clip does not exist in?



4) Zoom buttons focus changes erratically

The plus and minus buttons in the lower left hand corner zoom off-screen, they do not keep focus with the play cursor. For example, insert a 16 bar clip on a new track (not a strange thing to do) and move the edit cursor to half way through the clip. Now zoom in only using those buttons. As Reaper zooms in the focus moves off-screen so once it is zoomed in it is outside the clip range and you cannot tell where you are.



Not exactly zooming, but points that are relevant to these issues:


1) The ruler in the midi editor only shows position where clips exists in positive space:


[IMG]http://img546.**************/img546/6187/6ruler1.jpg[/IMG]


You can see the bar stops at bar 9 (which isn't even shown). As there are so many issues with zooming, you constantly zoom into a point and don't know the position as there is no ruler there. Requesting this be changed so the ruler constantly shows position, even if no clip exists at the point.

The irony of this request, is the position is always show for negative space, which again, means nothing to the end user. The useful part - the actual arrangement does not show.

[IMG]http://img846.**************/img846/8462/7rulerbeforeandafter.jpg[/IMG]

See the negative space? So you can tell where negative bar 2 begins... but where does bar 12 begin?


2) The ruler has additional dividends beyond beat and bar. In terms of composition, this does not make a lot of sense to the average user - it is just confusing. Requesting the option to lock this to just show bar and beat, not ticks or the other subdivisions that are not relevant to 80% of users.


[IMG]http://img51.**************/img51/3788/8rulervalues1.jpg[/IMG]


I have written this to put together a list of issues with this function within Reaper. This are not feature requests (ignoring the last two which are somewhat relevant), they are issues with the behavior, that cause issues for the end user. This is not a once off to a couple of extreme midi composers - there are threads created about these issues in the forum every couple of days.

If there are any issues or inaccuracies in what I have written please let me know, I will change it immediately. It was a lot of work to put together a list of these issues from what people are constantly mentioning, so please do not derail this thread or start trolling if you don't use midi; many of us do and like Reaper, but these small things are workflow killers. They really do slow down the end user, please consider resolving these.


Feedback/suggestions/changes/additional issues welcome, will update first post as appropriate. Thank you for reading.

Last edited by Eyes; 07-21-2012 at 04:18 AM. Reason: Grammer.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:09 AM   #2
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo3uxqwTxk0
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:06 AM   #3
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@ Eyes:

I think you are sooo right!
This is really buggin' me too!
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:26 AM   #4
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Haha thanks.

I really don't want to come off as negative. Reaper is great, but there are issues with things like this. I presumed it would be more helpful for the dev's if there was a clear list of issues and why they are issues instead of new threads complaining about it every couple of days.
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:50 AM   #5
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when i open my midi editor on a piano part i get this ridiculous view. Freaking ZOOM IN when I open it to a dozen bars or so and THEN remember my zoom levels when I come back. This initial view is nasty.

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Old 07-21-2012, 08:06 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes View Post
Haha thanks.

I really don't want to come off as negative.
Negative bars or space has had its toll on me too. Surrounded by it, and stuck between the erratic zoom and the oddly and unnecessarily graduated ruler, I never felt at ease.

Thank you so much for bringing that issue concisely! I do hope it is dealt with soon. At least before the Euro crashes because I'll only feel concerned about survival then.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:23 PM   #7
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A convincing demonstration. Until now I always thought of it as proof of my lacking Reaper mastery, when I stumbled on these issues.
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:43 AM   #8
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Default Midi issues

OMG you hit the nail on the head. Thank you for posting these issues so clearly and concisely. I really, really hope Dev's might see your post...
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