Old 08-04-2019, 10:05 AM   #3641
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Absolutely !!

@Freex, yeah, looked at the image, might as well do Sends Menu as well as FX Menu to keep it consistent

I'd be tempted to overlay them on one row though, leaving 24 free ones to map to your heart's content, but that's just me

Did anyone get a chance to check the new build with Blank Displays and Low Track count now working properly (hopefully) ?
Sorry, bit of a bust here i'm afraid. MIDI interfaces go beserk with massive output of data.
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Old 08-04-2019, 10:54 AM   #3642
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Not had a chance yet
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Old 08-04-2019, 11:06 AM   #3643
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post

@Freex, yeah, looked at the image, might as well do Sends Menu as well as FX Menu to keep it consistent
Would the ToggleSends not splay across to look pretty much like the Fx menu,

A menu for the sends would not really serve any purpose, as the toggle displays them. Just where you want them displayed I guess. But they pretty much display like that on the c4 currently. Or am I missing something?
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Old 08-04-2019, 11:41 AM   #3644
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Sorry, bit of a bust here i'm afraid. MIDI interfaces go beserk with massive output of data.
Oops, got lulled by Midi over ethernet

OK, got bits and pieces of Midi out to clean up, but should have a build a bit later, stay tuned...
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Old 08-04-2019, 11:42 AM   #3645
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Would the ToggleSends not splay across to look pretty much like the Fx menu,

A menu for the sends would not really serve any purpose, as the toggle displays them. Just where you want them displayed I guess. But they pretty much display like that on the c4 currently. Or am I missing something?
It's more for if you wanted to map a whole slew of Sends params, like you typically would an FX.
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Old 08-04-2019, 11:45 AM   #3646
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Is anybody using multiple pages? Can you explain how to set them up? Do I need separate folders for each surface for each page? How do you call a page or make the zone?
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Old 08-04-2019, 11:57 AM   #3647
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Is anybody using multiple pages? Can you explain how to set them up? Do I need separate folders for each surface for each page? How do you call a page or make the zone?
I haven't used them in ages, but here's what I remember. YMMV.

Add Page in CSI prefs, setup as you would for first page. You will need to create a different folder for the new Zone you want to use (ie the Zone containing the different behaviour to the first page)

IIRC the navigation is SomeButton NextPage or GoPage SomePageName.
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:01 PM   #3648
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Is anybody using multiple pages? Can you explain how to set them up? Do I need separate folders for each surface for each page? How do you call a page or make the zone?
I'd assume that you need atleast separate fx.zone with everything used in there. Eg. C4_B.zone

Then in the new page you set the C4 surface to C4_B as the fx setting.

If you get the idea
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:52 PM   #3649
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I'd assume that you need atleast separate fx.zone with everything used in there. Eg. C4_B.zone

Then in the new page you set the C4 surface to C4_B as the fx setting.

If you get the idea
Not necessarily.

You could have the scenario you describe, but you could also have a page that is almost the same, but with just a few important differences -- it's all up to you
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:56 PM   #3650
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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
Is anybody using multiple pages? Can you explain how to set them up? Do I need separate folders for each surface for each page? How do you call a page or make the zone?
A Page is just a collection of Surfaces and Zones.

You need separate folders only for things that are different.

Typically Pages share a lot of .zon files, .mst files, etc., but not all.

It is very free form.

There is a GoPage command that works exactly like GoZone, except, of course, it goes to a whole new Page

Give it a try and ask away...
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:57 PM   #3651
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New build is up.

Hopefully a bit less Midi flooding now
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:58 PM   #3652
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Not necessarily.

You could have the scenario you describe, but you could also have a page that is almost the same, but with just a few important differences -- it's all up to you
Very true I guess I'm C4 obsessed.

I guess he could be wanting to change whatever main surface he's using.

I presume that you need an additional zone be it MCU_2, C4_B or whatever to have the variations.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:16 PM   #3653
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New build is up.

Hopefully a bit less Midi flooding now
Much better No flooding, but NoAction no longer seems to work on the C4. ToggleMapSends doesn't clear the C4 displays, but works fine on the MCU.

On a more positive note, starting from scratch, the surfaces fill from the left and when you close a project all the displays clear now. Including the C4.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:22 PM   #3654
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Very true I guess I'm C4 obsessed.

I guess he could be wanting to change whatever main surface he's using.

I presume that you need an additional zone be it MCU_2, C4_B or whatever to have the variations.
Exactly, just the variations.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:23 PM   #3655
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Much better No flooding, but NoAction no longer seems to work on the C4. ToggleMapSends doesn't clear the C4 displays, but works fine on the MCU.

On a more positive note, starting from scratch, the surfaces fill from the left and when you close a project all the displays clear now. Including the C4.
Good stuff.

Ok, have an idea on NoAction...
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:35 PM   #3656
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Not a bug but don't have FX Parameters checked when loading a BBE Sound plugin, they were as lazy as it gets, the txt file for ONE is 30kB.

It's taking a life time to process.


VST3: Sonic Maximizer (BBE Sound) (mono)
Power
Input
Output
Protect
Lo Contour
Process
iSet
BBE Process
Bypass
MIDI CC 0|0
MIDI CC 0|1
MIDI CC 0|2
MIDI CC 0|3
MIDI CC 0|4
MIDI CC 0|5
MIDI CC 0|6
MIDI CC 0|7

and the tail end of one.

MIDI CC 15|124
MIDI CC 15|125
MIDI CC 15|126
MIDI CC 15|127
MIDI CC 15|128
MIDI CC 15|129
Bypass
Wet

I Can't even scroll thru it on the popup window. Lol


PS. the auto creation of the txt files is sweet as, even with ridiculous developers.

(I'm working remotely so don't have access to the control surfaces to see how things are playing)

Last edited by Freex; 08-04-2019 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:44 PM   #3657
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Not a bug but don't have FX Parameters checked when loading a BBE Sound plugin, they were as lazy as it gets, the txt file for ONE is 30kB.

It's taking a life time to process.


VST3: Sonic Maximizer (BBE Sound) (mono)
Power
Input
Output
Protect
Lo Contour
Process
iSet
BBE Process
Bypass
MIDI CC 0|0
MIDI CC 0|1
MIDI CC 0|2
MIDI CC 0|3
MIDI CC 0|4
MIDI CC 0|5
MIDI CC 0|6
MIDI CC 0|7

and the tail end of one.

MIDI CC 15|124
MIDI CC 15|125
MIDI CC 15|126
MIDI CC 15|127
MIDI CC 15|128
MIDI CC 15|129
Bypass
Wet

I Can't even scroll thru it on the popup window. Lol


PS. the auto creation of the txt files is sweet as, even with ridiculous developers.

(I'm working remotely so don't have access to the control surfaces to see how things are playing)
That's VST3 for you. Try Reaktor!!
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:04 PM   #3658
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That's VST3 for you. Try Reaktor!!
I made the mistake of thinking it was a good idea to just fire up a load of FX at once and let them write to txt.

It's been a while, screen is white boxes on a faded out reaper background, but the files are loading into the RawFX folder.

Ok it was just on developers entire list. lol WHOOOOPS

Still going tho
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:07 PM   #3659
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I made the mistake of thinking it was a good idea to just fire up a load of FX at once and let them write to txt.

It's been a while, screen is white boxes on a faded out reaper background, but the files are loading into the RawFX folder.
Freex the Destroyer
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:22 PM   #3660
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Freex the Destroyer
I'm not even at the studio, the PC could be smoking and sparks flying everywhere, I think it's now completed the (cough) 39 plugins, It's just taking a minute.
But even with the white windows, I reckon it was faster than I could have did it the old way.

Even with the remote connection throwing me off twice.
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:35 PM   #3661
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It crashed in the end,

but it did complete all the txt files.

I tried it again just for kick with the fx parameters off and all good.

I guess it's the writing to file that is the bottle neck there, and those VST3's although some heavy file sizes anyway.

39 files created 348KB total size
23 VST size(1-18KB)
12 VST3 size(2-19KB)
2 VSTi size(1KB & 18KB)
2 VST3i size(2KB & 19KB)

Can't really complain about that.

Last edited by Freex; 08-04-2019 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:52 PM   #3662
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It crashed in the end,

but it did complete all the txt files.

I tried it again just for kick with the fx parameters off and all good.

I guess it's the writing to file that is the bottle neck there, and those VST3's although some heavy file sizes anyway.

39 files created 348KB total size
23 VST size(1-18KB)
12 VST3 size(2-19KB)
2 VSTi size(1KB & 18KB)
2 VST3i size(2KB & 19KB)

Can't really complain about that.
I'm amazed it held up that well
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:55 PM   #3663
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New build is up.

Whoa, what a mess of Midi leaks !

I think I got most of them, but I also have to be careful not to over-prune (like last time with NoAction) so, maybe suspect some sporadic stuff here and there -- just tell me, should be easy fixes (famous last words )
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:56 PM   #3664
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I'm amazed it held up that well
Yeah I reduced the number down to 16 (144KB) and it managed ok.

Just a very long wait when you delete the track, it goes thru them all again and tries to write them to file again

or does if you've already moved them into a Developers Sub Folder

Is it writing all the files simultaneously or in a queue, as it seems watching the files appear in the folder that the sizes keep changing.
Files seem to go from 7KB back to 0 and then to a higher number like 13KB down thru the list like it's adding new lines.

Last edited by Freex; 08-04-2019 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:48 PM   #3665
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Is it writing all the files simultaneously or in a queue, as it seems watching the files appear in the folder that the sizes keep changing.
Files seem to go from 7KB back to 0 and then to a higher number like 13KB down thru the list like it's adding new lines.
It's just writing them out serially, line by line, I suspect the slowness is caused by the Reaper Console Window, we all know how it kills performance when monitoring Midi. It's not meant to be high performance anyway.
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Old 08-04-2019, 03:51 PM   #3666
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Whoa, what a mess of Midi leaks !

I think I got most of them, but I also have to be careful not to over-prune (like last time with NoAction) so, maybe suspect some sporadic stuff here and there -- just tell me, should be easy fixes (famous last words )
Success NoAction is now, well, back in action. ToggleMapSends is toggling again.

All the stuff that was mended/improved still seems ok, will try more stuff tomorrow.

This is getting pretty slick Geoff!
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:37 PM   #3667
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Aww this new one broke my "console" so nothing maps on select track. What did I miss?
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:44 PM   #3668
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Aww this new one broke my "console" so nothing maps on select track. What did I miss?
Did you put in:
Code:
someButton ToggleMapFX
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:45 PM   #3669
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No, I don't want to toggle. I want it to map when I select a track without toggling. Did that go away now?
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:56 PM   #3670
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No, I don't want to toggle. I want it to map when I select a track without toggling. Did that go away now?
I think you may need to turn the toggle on for that to happen. If you then leave it on, things should be as before (I think)
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Old 08-04-2019, 06:15 PM   #3671
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bah, well that's a surprise. if that's the case then can we have a way to make some kind of startup action list for a page or some way to trigger these states that should be/could be default?

well at least the (oops) older build is working well, in fact it's incredible for me!
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Old 08-04-2019, 06:21 PM   #3672
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No, I don't want to toggle. I want it to map when I select a track without toggling. Did that go away now?
Yes, it's part of the new design, consistency and all -- makes it the same as Sends.

You need to map a button as per @MixMonkey.

Also, as @MixMonkey says you can toggle it once and leave it on.

I thought about making the default to automatically map, so the first toggle would turn it OFF, but that seemed like it would be confusing.

If the default was to auto map, you wouldn't need to waste a button if you really wanted auto mapping all the time -- the Console 1 is like that, but I still like being able to toggle the Selected Track FX mapping, very handy, especially once the parallel OnFXFocus is implemented.

If you really don't want to burn a button just for that, we can revisit the design, but I think this way is the most consistent, least surprises, way to go

Maybe try it for now and see what you think, but I definitely hear ya'
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Old 08-04-2019, 07:48 PM   #3673
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Geoff, Is there anyway of having the FX parameters only write on loading only?

When you delete a track or any FX not in slot 1, it spuse out the midi params again and rewrites the file again.

Edit: Tell a lie, it's all slots unless there is only one FX

Also it seems to do strange things to the files already in the raw folder,

They appear to drop to 0KB one after the other, even though they shouldn't be being effected by new FX txt creations?

It writes them far faster on deletion than on insertion.

Late night Edit: I WOULD SWEAR THESE FILES ARE BEING WRITTEN AND OVER WRITTEN MORE THAN ONCE, possibly by the amount of slots used.
I think its writing slot 1, 1,2, 1,2,3 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4,5 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc.

Last edited by Freex; 08-04-2019 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 08-04-2019, 11:52 PM   #3674
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Geoff, Is there anyway of having the FX parameters only write on loading only?

When you delete a track or any FX not in slot 1, it spuse out the midi params again and rewrites the file again.

Edit: Tell a lie, it's all slots unless there is only one FX

Also it seems to do strange things to the files already in the raw folder,

They appear to drop to 0KB one after the other, even though they shouldn't be being effected by new FX txt creations?

It writes them far faster on deletion than on insertion.

Late night Edit: I WOULD SWEAR THESE FILES ARE BEING WRITTEN AND OVER WRITTEN MORE THAN ONCE, possibly by the amount of slots used.
I think its writing slot 1, 1,2, 1,2,3 1,2,3,4 1,2,3,4,5 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc.
Yeah, that sounds right.

CSI just responds to TrackFXListChanged messages from Reaper, and writes out all the FX for the Track.

If you add an FX, it writes out the params for the FX in slot 1.

If you add another FX it writes out the params for the FX in slot 1, and slot 2.

If you add another, well, you get the idea , it's exactly what you are seeing

It looks like it is working as designed.

The only issue is it is very slow -- so slow that you can actually see the files changing -- man that is slow !

Hey, maybe we shouldn't write out the file if it's already there.

Works great until you upgrade an FX (the upgrade has more/different params) -- the file doesn't get written, and you have to manually delete the damn thing, just so you get a write with the new/different params.

I'll presume you use Reaper to record.

Let's say you are recording a stereo track at 44.1 kHz 16 bit.

That's 44.1 K X 2 bytes X 2 tracks = about 192K a second.

So your system is capable of at least that kind of performance or you would be falling over when recording.

Must be something else slowing things down.

We know that we are bending the rules when we slam ReaConsole with all that data, it's not really built for that.

So the solution is -- let the files overwrite as they are now to make things easy with regards to upgrades etc., let's just speed things up.

Next build will not show FX params, it will just write them to disk.

Let's see how that peforms
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Old 08-05-2019, 12:32 AM   #3675
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New build is up.

FX Param Monitor -- no more ReaConsole, it writes directly to disk -- let's see if performance is better.

A Zone file can have only one Navigator.

FX Zones with Selected Track Navigators now run completely independently from FX Zones with Focused Track Navigators -- this is a bit experimental, not quite sure of all the ramifications of this, let's try it and see
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Old 08-05-2019, 12:40 AM   #3676
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yeah, that sounds right.

CSI just responds to TrackFXListChanged messages from Reaper, and writes out all the FX for the Track.

If you add an FX, it writes out the params for the FX in slot 1.

If you add another FX it writes out the params for the FX in slot 1, and slot 2.

If you add another, well, you get the idea , it's exactly what you are seeing

It looks like it is working as designed.

The only issue is it is very slow -- so slow that you can actually see the files changing -- man that is slow !

Hey, maybe we shouldn't write out the file if it's already there.

Works great until you upgrade an FX (the upgrade has more/different params) -- the file doesn't get written, and you have to manually delete the damn thing, just so you get a write with the new/different params.

I'll presume you use Reaper to record.

Let's say you are recording a stereo track at 44.1 kHz 16 bit.

That's 44.1 K X 2 bytes X 2 tracks = about 192K a second.

So your system is capable of at least that kind of performance or you would be falling over when recording.

Must be something else slowing things down.

We know that we are bending the rules when we slam ReaConsole with all that data, it's not really built for that.

So the solution is -- let the files overwrite as they are now to make things easy with regards to upgrades etc., let's just speed things up.

Next build will not show FX params, it will just write them to disk.

Let's see how that peforms

Sounds good, but what I was trying to get across is (and this would happen if with an fx chain), when writting multiple FX at the same time.
Lets say you have an FXchanin with 4 FX, (not unreasonable)
Now it doesn't write with track duplication or adding an FX chain (which is a good thing) but does write on deletion.

And what it writes is thus,
It writes Slot1,
It then rewrites Slot1 and then Slot2,
It then rewrites Slot1 and Slot 2 and the then writes Slot3,
It then rewrites Slot1, Slot2 and Slot3 before finaly writing Slot4.

So rather than just writing each slot once. slot one is being written 4 times, slot2 3 times, slot3 2 times and slot4 once, that's equivalent to 10 slots.

Now add a 5th FX and your equivalent count is up to 15, it escalates very rapidly.
More so with FX with larger content output, especially VST3's.

Time wise, it's not a biggie (for me anyway), I was doing 8 and 16 slots at a time and really hammering it, (36 and 136 respectfully) and of course the one time of 39 slots, equivalent to writing 780 so I really saw the lag.

Upgrading???? If you mean replacing an fx, it writes fine for me here?

EDIT, just noticed on deletion it doesn't write the first FX slot. so my numbers could be off by the number of slots, but you get the idea.

Last edited by Freex; 08-05-2019 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 08-05-2019, 01:06 AM   #3677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

FX Param Monitor -- no more ReaConsole, it writes directly to disk -- let's see if performance is better.

A Zone file can have only one Navigator.

FX Zones with Selected Track Navigators now run completely independently from FX Zones with Focused Track Navigators -- this is a bit experimental, not quite sure of all the ramifications of this, let's try it and see
Seems faster, Initial loading was definitely snappier,
Deletion is still very slow and much slower than loading and still rewriting as I described above. (again I'm hammering to exaggerate the effect) (22 slots) (with rewrites on deletion its 134) (adjusted for the first slot not being written)

On track deletion it seems to be,
deleting a FXslot then writing all files,
deleting another then rewriting all the files......

EDIT: It seems to be (x86)plugins running in bridge mode.

Waves and Plugin Alliance loaded without any real lag (other than waves initial usual lag) and I mean pretty much all of them.
Fantastic improvement, seems to vary between developers.

UPDATE: Only doing the looped overwrites on deletion of track,
Rewrites one time all FX on deletion of any FX in chain (with any type of FX VST,VST3, x86, x64).

Last edited by Freex; 08-05-2019 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:40 AM   #3678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freex View Post
Seems faster, Initial loading was definitely snappier,
Deletion is still very slow and much slower than loading and still rewriting as I described above. (again I'm hammering to exaggerate the effect) (22 slots) (with rewrites on deletion its 134) (adjusted for the first slot not being written)

On track deletion it seems to be,
deleting a FXslot then writing all files,
deleting another then rewriting all the files......

EDIT: It seems to be (x86)plugins running in bridge mode.

Waves and Plugin Alliance loaded without any real lag (other than waves initial usual lag) and I mean pretty much all of them.
Fantastic improvement, seems to vary between developers.

UPDATE: Only doing the looped overwrites on deletion of track,
Rewrites one time all FX on deletion of any FX in chain (with any type of FX VST,VST3, x86, x64).
You're not planning on leaving fx param switched on are you?
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Old 08-05-2019, 04:55 AM   #3679
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
You're not planning on leaving fx param switched on are you?
Good grief NO, just If you do by accident then deletion is a Pain.

There's a bottle neck there that maybe Geoff can stop it writing on deletion, IDK

Loading is very quick, almost as fast as without it enabled.

Last edited by Freex; 08-05-2019 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 08-05-2019, 06:27 AM   #3680
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Originally Posted by Freex View Post
Good grief NO, just If you do by accident then deletion is a Pain.

There's a bottle neck there that maybe Geoff can stop it writing on deletion, IDK
Nah, it's a feature -- reminds you to turn it off when done
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