Control TotalMix from REAPER?

Sibben · 07-17-2020, 06:58 AM

Has anyone managed to control TotalMix from REAPER via OSC or MIDI?

There is some information on it but its all over the internet in bits and pieces and nothing I found was very helpful for me. So if anyone has it working maybe they can point me in the right direction...

DrFrankencopter · 07-17-2020, 07:48 AM

I wrote some extensions/actions to allow for limited control of TotalMix via OSC from Reaper. See the link in my signature.

I'm not sure if anyone has actually tried it/used it. In fact, I need to re-install it on my machine and see if it still works.

Nonetheless, I'm happy to continue working on it if there's interest...or can supply source code if someone else wants to tinker on it.

Sibben · 07-17-2020, 08:53 AM

Cool!

So, excuse my ignorance, but does this solution mean we don't have to faff around with setting up OSC manually and use the cryptic config file?

Also...the Mac dropbox link seems dead so I can't see if it still works. Would you mind please updating it or PM:ing me?

Coachz · 07-17-2020, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrFrankencopter

I wrote some extensions/actions to allow for limited control of TotalMix via OSC from Reaper. See the link in my signature.

I'm not sure if anyone has actually tried it/used it. In fact, I need to re-install it on my machine and see if it still works.

Nonetheless, I'm happy to continue working on it if there's interest...or can supply source code if someone else wants to tinker on it.

Did the video ever happen?

DrFrankencopter · 07-17-2020, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sibben

Cool!

So, excuse my ignorance, but does this solution mean we don't have to faff around with setting up OSC manually and use the cryptic config file?

Also...the Mac dropbox link seems dead so I can't see if it still works. Would you mind please updating it or PM:ing me?

I'll have to dig around and try to find the Mac build...think it's on my daughter's laptop right now. I'll re-build and can email it to you.

Alternatively, does anyone know of decent file hosting for sharing Reaper related projects that are over 1 MB in size? I think it was the size limit in the stash that I ran up against.

Regarding what it does: I have set up a few actions to control monitor switching, and mute groups. I haven't coded up the complete OSC spec for totalmix (it's quite deep). I just coded up the stuff that I thought was most useful for working quickly in Reaper.

DrFrankencopter · 07-17-2020, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

Did the video ever happen?

It didn't...but once I re-test on my new configuration I can put something together. If there's interest I can make it a priority.

Sibben · 07-17-2020, 09:58 AM

So, there seems to be quite a few RME users on the forum but I don't know how many would have use for better TotalMix support but I would love to have it.

My original intention was to create either a simple JS plug with sliders or toolbar items to control TotalMix from within Reaper. Stuff like switching output channels (from headphones to monitors) or perhaps 48V. Stuff like that. So I think I had the same ambition as you, Doc. Just the basics and not super deep FX tweaking or such.

I'd be more than happy to help out if I can.

Coachz · 07-17-2020, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrFrankencopter

It didn't...but once I re-test on my new configuration I can put something together. If there's interest I can make it a priority.

Well I use total mix all the time with an RME 9652 and would love to see a video on what it can do with Reaper

DrFrankencopter · 07-17-2020, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sibben

So, there seems to be quite a few RME users on the forum but I don't know how many would have use for better TotalMix support but I would love to have it.

My original intention was to create either a simple JS plug with sliders or toolbar items to control TotalMix from within Reaper. Stuff like switching output channels (from headphones to monitors) or perhaps 48V. Stuff like that. So I think I had the same ambition as you, Doc. Just the basics and not super deep FX tweaking or such.

I'd be more than happy to help out if I can.

If you know how to code, I'd be happy to put the source up on git-hub...it's not a super complicated project. The hardest part is poking around and making sure you encode the OSC messages right.

I coded it in C, as a Reaper extension.

DrFrankencopter · 07-17-2020, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coachz

Well I use total mix all the time with an RME 9652 and would love to see a video on what it can do with Reaper

Got it! I'll try and get it re-tested early next week.

My favourite trick that I taught it to do was to auto-mute the monitors when recording. I have a one room studio, and this is real handy so I don't accidentally get the monitors spilling into the mics.

karbomusic · 07-17-2020, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sibben

So, there seems to be quite a few RME users on the forum but I don't know how many would have use for better TotalMix support but I would love to have it.

My original intention was to create either a simple JS plug with sliders or toolbar items to control TotalMix from within Reaper. Stuff like switching output channels (from headphones to monitors) or perhaps 48V. Stuff like that. So I think I had the same ambition as you, Doc. Just the basics and not super deep FX tweaking or such.

I'd be more than happy to help out if I can.

I haven't messed with it. TotalMix does or used to support the old direct monitoring feature (poor name), the one that would allow a record armed track volume to control the gain of it's chosen input channel in TotalMix - Not sure who here remembers that. I know it was available in Logic for PC years ago because I used it to control my M-Audio Delta-66 back then.

Back on topic, I've not tried any Reaper controlling of TM other than what I just mentioned but reaper doesn't support and AFAIK it's outdated at this point.

DrFrankencopter · 07-17-2020, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sibben

Stuff like switching output channels (from headphones to monitors) or perhaps 48V. Stuff like that. So I think I had the same ambition as you, Doc. Just the basics and not super deep FX tweaking or such.

IIRC one of the confusing things about the TotalMix OSC implementation is that it's difficult to establish exactly what channel you are controlling. This is complicated by the fact that TM is a matrix mixer where each output has separate controls for input and virtual output routing. I couldn't quite figure it out myself. But, the control room section was fairly easy to sort out.

Also, IIRC, TM supports the MCU protocol, so you should be able to control it from a control surface, or MCU emulating app. I haven't really experimented with this myself, however.

Here are some threads on RME's forum documenting some of the sleuthing that I needed to do in order to get going with OSC.

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=24379

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=24634

Sibben · 07-17-2020, 02:47 PM

Some voodoo going on there I guess.

Did you try controlling TotalMix with an external controller and listen in with an OSC logger to see what the hell it was doing?

tdc · 07-18-2020, 05:38 AM

Another interested Mac user with many RME devices in my facility.

Currently I use a macro engine trigger from some streamdecks for control. Would love to see how I could tie Reaper into that.

Sibben · 07-19-2020, 03:25 AM

So I tried using Protokol from Hexler with supposedly monitors OSC messages to see if I could figure out what messages TotalMix accepts. I have a TouchOSC template that works and I can control TotalMIx from my iPad but the logger shows no data. Anyone knows how if there's something else I need to do to be able to monitor OSC messages?

EcBaPr · 07-19-2020, 05:12 AM

i played around with this around 6-7 years back. I cant remember all the exact details but I did get totalmix faders and most other basic functions being controlled via midi out from reaper.. I have a UFX which has two midi ports so I did a cable loopback on one port and then it was just a matter of sending midi CC's on different channels to change totalmix functions.. i did it with a hardware cable but you could probably use midi loopback software.. there was some documentation for it in the UFX manual showing what CCs change what functions.. My other memory was that not everything was controllable via midi but most things were..

Prior to trying the midi route i also tried to get OSC from reaper to totalmix happening with no success.. I had OSC working with various apps on tablets but i couldn't get it sending out of reaper into totalmix.. that might have been my lack of knowledge but i also didn't stick with it for long when i found out that totalmix doesn't have global control. That means you only have access to 8 channels at a time so if you are changing channel 2 fader level and you want to change channel 10 fader i think you have to send a bank change message first and then send a second message to control fader 10.. this is a problem if you want to do two things simultaneously and they aren't on the same group of 8..

i also recall this being messy if you are creating a layout in an OSC app because if you want to use more than 8 channels you have to send two messages to do one thing.. A button may only be able to send one message at a time so you have to create two buttons for one function.. Those are my recollections, it was messy and i remember thinking global OSC control needed to be implemented by RME but so far from what i know it hasn't happened..

EDIT: the second post on this page has the details for what midi messages control totalmix
https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=24437

Sibben · 07-19-2020, 06:14 AM

So it might actually be easier with MIDI then. So when you looped MIDI back you actually went out of the RME and back in?

airon · 07-19-2020, 07:13 AM

I'm using a little Korg NanoPad 2 I had left over. Certain note triggers recall snapshots, which is what I use.

My Fireface UC interface is directly in front of me, so I use the knob to control the general playback volume on my 5.1 system via a fader group on TotalMixFX.

Such small controllers are quite useful. They can usually be customized very well and this is the case with the little Korg controllers. There are some bluetooth controllers around that would probably do well in another room too.

They have TouchOSC templates for download somewhere too for those interested in OSC.

And then there's the RME controller ARC. 120 Euros here. Every button is configurable, and probably the wheel as well. I see a bunch of studios using that too.

EcBaPr · 07-19-2020, 07:49 AM

yes I just used a cable to go connect the output/input midi ports on the back of the UFX.. then I enabled the midi out in reaper and the input in totalmix.. a software loopback driver would work the same way i think if you don't want to use the hardware output..

tdc · 07-20-2020, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sibben

So I tried using Protokol from Hexler with supposedly monitors OSC messages to see if I could figure out what messages TotalMix accepts. I have a TouchOSC template that works and I can control TotalMIx from my iPad but the logger shows no data. Anyone knows how if there's something else I need to do to be able to monitor OSC messages?

OSC is a fantastic protocol for being so extensible, however, it can be challenging to debug as there can only ever be one recipient of a Port. So, you can't set TotalMix to listen on Port 9000 and then open Protocol to also show the incoming messages on that port.

When I am developing solutions like this, I typically use MaxMSP to receive and then forward OSC messages to the desired destinations - that way I am able to intercept and monitor or create OSC messages. I believe the app called OSCulator does the same.

Sibben · 07-20-2020, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdc

OSC is a fantastic protocol for being so extensible, however, it can be challenging to debug as there can only ever be one recipient of a Port. So, you can't set TotalMix to listen on Port 9000 and then open Protocol to also show the incoming messages on that port.

When I am developing solutions like this, I typically use MaxMSP to receive and then forward OSC messages to the desired destinations - that way I am able to intercept and monitor or create OSC messages. I believe the app called OSCulator does the same.

That’s a tricky gotcha. Thanks for the info!

tdc · 07-20-2020, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sibben

That’s a tricky gotcha. Thanks for the info!

You're welcome - its only from pulling my hair out that I have learned this. You have to be careful as assigning a new listener to an in-sue port will push the earlier assigned listener offline. This often requires a restart of an application to get them back in sync.

zookthespook · 08-09-2020, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrFrankencopter

I wrote some extensions/actions to allow for limited control of TotalMix via OSC from Reaper. See the link in my signature.

I'm not sure if anyone has actually tried it/used it. In fact, I need to re-install it on my machine and see if it still works.

Nonetheless, I'm happy to continue working on it if there's interest...or can supply source code if someone else wants to tinker on it.

wow this is cool...will definitely investigate with my finite (limited ) understanding