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Old 07-04-2020, 07:33 AM   #281
terminar
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@terminar: ok, the switch to CMake is done after making some small changes. Was more painful than expected (silly 32/64bit mess on Windows) but I do see the benefit for cross platform maintenance and the cleaner way of dealing with dependencies. Thx for raising the issue!
Thank you very much for accepting the MR and sorry for painful situation. That was my fault. I compiled it on Windows to test it but i haven't tested it with Reaper myself - I'll do better next time!

But regarding now: it was a pleasure to create the new MR for 1.0. I was able to fully work with Visual Studio Code, very "luxury"

Quote:
I guess it's your turn now to build the OSX binaries. What about publishing those also via ReaPack?
Yes but f4b7d introduced a small regression. I added another fix: at PR50.

Regarding ReaPack: I NEED HELP! Can't get into the magic. What should i do? Add it here? But it's not an API or control surface? Or is it a control surface? Do you have a link to the Windows-Entry so i can shamelessly copy it?

Some general questions about the release and the future:
- Do you want to provide a general Win/OSX release at https://github.com/brummbrum/reaKontrol/releases/tag/v<version>? We can *maybe* synchronize the release and create one "release" pack at your central repository the next time? Just an offer. My compiler is yours.
- Personally i like the concept of zero-config. I don't like messages which are nagging me that i have to provide some data first before using something with basic functionality. Therefore a suggestion: If there is no reakontrol.ini in the user preferences folder: why don't we create one with the default settings? Other idea: why don't we just ignore the file if it's not there? Third idea: if there is no file, why don't we just set the default actions without a configuration file? Leads to the same situation - zero config.
- Note to myself/TODO: i have to support you on the manual regarding OSX as previously offered...

The ReaStash entry is updated to reaKontrol (OSX) v1.00
https://stash.reaper.fm/38633/reaper_kontrol.dylib
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Old 07-04-2020, 02:17 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by terminar View Post
- Personally i like the concept of zero-config. I don't like messages which are nagging me that i have to provide some data first before using something with basic functionality. Therefore a suggestion: If there is no reakontrol.ini in the user preferences folder: why don't we create one with the default settings? Other idea: why don't we just ignore the file if it's not there? Third idea: if there is no file, why don't we just set the default actions without a configuration file? Leads to the same situation - zero config.
I went through exactly those ideas too (incl supplying an installer). Creating the ini if not found came in on 2nd place, but in the end I deliberately settled on the current implementation: i.e. "nag" message at startup if installation is not complete and another message on the keyboard's display once the function gets invoked "config file not found". Here is why:
With ReaKontrol v1.0 the philosophy changes a little from "no user interaction necessary" (single file install, behind the scene csurf without any need for extra control surface config) to "user involvement encouraged" (additional file installation which is user editable). I want the user to know if the config file is missing (e.g. could also happen with a portable install when moving stuff around) rather than replace it with a default dummy. Now, admittedly, the message at startup is "rubbing it in" because we still have the warning once you invoke custom actions. However, recognizing that some user already encountered issues with the single file installation I think the switch to a slightly more involved philosophy justifies a message at startup if the installation was not completed successfully. The plugin still behaves gracefully. The same is true if people have no interest or idea how to take advantage of those customized actions & scripts that do not come natively with Reaper. Although part of the ini that comes with the installation these actions do not even appear if people do not have the extensions installed.
In a nutshell: I stand by my decision to create these messages and "gently force" the user to do a proper installation. Most people will not ever encounter the message anyway. However, once the dust has settled we might remove the message at startup and just leave the one when you invoke the function.
This leads me to installation in general: I am a huge fan of ReaPack! It should be the default way to install. It takes care of the whole point of installing all required files properly. It is also the reason why - at least at this stage with the very simple structure we have - I do not see a reason for a dedicated installer.

Quote:
Regarding ReaPack: I NEED HELP!
The easiest (albeit with less automation) is indeed to use the upload tool of the web interface. Since you placed the OSX binaries on stash I can easily add it into ReaPack. Will do this today, no need for you to do anything. As you say, for the future we should figure out a way how to "synchronize" with the least possible effort on both ends... Once @cfillion has merged my updated pull request linking your stash binaries into ReaPack you should test if the installation runs smoothly - especially for the ini file. It works fine on Windows. Oh, and it is a "Control Surface" as of lately (used to be an "API"). Christian just introduced this new category.

Edit: here is the pull request, please test once it is merged - thanks!
https://github.com/ReaTeam/Extensions/pull/6

Last edited by brummbear; 07-04-2020 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 07-07-2020, 12:44 AM   #283
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I went through exactly those ideas too (incl supplying an installer).
...
I do not see a reason for a dedicated installer.
Me neither. Just thought about the default settings but ok, thanks for the really detailed explanation of your decision.

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if the installation runs smoothly - especially for the ini file. It works fine on Windows. Oh, and it is a "Control Surface" as of lately (used to be an "API"). Christian just introduced this new category.
I tried to install it via ReaPack - seems to work (even my config is overwritten which is OK in this case). I haven't found time to fully test it but the installation via ReaPack itself is working.
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Old 07-09-2020, 02:48 PM   #284
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Thumbs up Keep up the great work

Hi Brummbear
Just wanted to say again how much your diligence and tenacity are appreciated in this plugin for the S88. I've moved to version 1.0 and edited the config file to do a different action on 3 of the buttons and its magic. Big hand claps for you.
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Old 07-10-2020, 04:18 AM   #285
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Default NI bug

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Quote:
Originally Posted by terminar
I was able to open a bug ticket at NI regarding that problem.
I am curious what they have to say
Well... After several ping-pong messages with the support of NI, after 3 (around 10 minutes) videos I've made reproducing the problems with the KKMK2 and the MMMK3, several questions if I can connect the devices directly to my Mac without using an USB hub (...) and a last message in which I explained what I think about the current situation (the NI support hadn't tried to reproduce the bug itself until that last message) - I got a first REAL answer. To be fair, the support guy was polite and calm, just not helpful.

The (translated) answer from the support:
"There seems to be a bigger problem. Our QA and developers are already trying to fix it. Unfortunately I can't say what's happening next."

Well, who whould have thought it?!
...
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Old 07-11-2020, 12:21 AM   #286
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Default Just installed the newest version and it Doesnt work as expected

Hi
I have Komplete MK2 S49 Keyboard
and I installed the DLL

Everything looks fine in the Reaper-MIDI options and yet
when I hit Play/Rec/Stop I hear High notes (when a VST is on)


Please advise
Ilan
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Old 07-11-2020, 02:29 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by hilluck View Post
...I can't even map an action to a midi controller...unless I'm missing something.
Hi hilluck,
Not sure why you run into problems. There are no limitations in regards to mapping actions to the S88, MIDI learn, MIDI link etc. You can do exactly what you would do with any other MIDI controller. And you can do that on top of ReaKontrol, it coexists happily together with all the Reaper standard stuff.

I doubt that you have a defective unit. Maybe you simply forgot to enable control messages for your normal KOMPLETE KONTROL Midi Device in the Reaper options? You would do the latter if you want to have your MIDI CC buttons and knobs on the keyboard to act globally within Reaper, e.g. map an action to one of the top row buttons. All other variations of using MIDI messages from the keyboard to learn/link to Reaper actions, plugin controls etc are possible just like with any other keyboard incl more advanced concepts like using MIDItoReaControlPath.
And the NI software allows you to create Midi templates to modify the Midi CCs, add names, create keybed zones, colors etc. Templates are stored in "Komplete Kontrol MK2 Settings.dat" and are evaluated through NIHIA. Best to edit these from the KK software as per NI manual. (For most other/older NI controllers the Midi templates are edited in Controller Editor instead.)

To rule out the remote possibility of having a defective unit I would simply log the incoming Midi from the keyboard on a track with ReaControlMidi (stock plugin which has a built in Logger). If you see CCs coming in when operating the keyboard you know everything is fine and you only have to configure Reaper / your project accordingly.

Last edited by brummbear; 07-16-2020 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 07-11-2020, 02:41 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by ilan.rosen@gmail.com View Post
Hi
I have Komplete MK2 S49 Keyboard
and I installed the DLL

Everything looks fine in the Reaper-MIDI options and yet
when I hit Play/Rec/Stop I hear High notes (when a VST is on)


Please advise
Ilan
sorry, no idea. Does not seem to be related to ReaKontrol. The plugin is not capable of creating Midi notes or anything that could trigger a VST. You may have some more basic issues with you routing going on
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Old 07-11-2020, 03:04 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by terminar View Post
The (translated) answer from the support:
"There seems to be a bigger problem. Our QA and developers are already trying to fix it. Unfortunately I can't say what's happening next."

Well, who whould have thought it?!
...
Yeah, the NI guys seem to be swamped with issues. And on top of that I imagine they also receive a lot of "false positives" by folks who did not read the manual... which might be the reason why they tortured you with requests for video evidence. I figure they just chose the current behavior as a short term "solution" which - unfortunately - discourages customers to buy more than one of their modern controllers that offer DAW integration via NIHIA.
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Old 07-11-2020, 03:10 PM   #290
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Default Switch Tracks Reverts to MIDI Mode

Hi!

First off, thank you so much! I'm so excited to utilize the full potential of my S49 Mk2 with Reaper. I've encountered a nagging behavior that I was hoping you could help with:

When I switch between tracks containing a KompleteKontrol instance, the keyboard reverts to MIDI mode. Also, Plug-in mode is not available (blacked out). Upon closer inspection of the KK GUI, I noticed that the little "49 keybed" image towards the top right is not lit (midi mode.jpg). When I click it, it lights up and my keyboard snaps into plug-in mode with all the premapped goodness (Plug-in Mode.jpg). When I switch away to another track with a KK instance, the keyboard reverts to midi mode again. This also happens when I click the "INSTANCE" button on the keyboard - there are no KK instances shown and it reverts to midi mode.

Win10 x64
Reaper v6.12c ReaKontrol v1.00 S49 MK2
KK 2.3.0 (R177)
NIHIA v1.10.0.166
"KOMPLETE KONTROL - 1" input is enable+control
"KOMPLETE KONTROL - 1" output is enable.
All others are disabled.
Control/OSC/Web is empty
Attached Images
File Type: jpg midi mode.jpg (60.0 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg Plug-in Mode.jpg (49.3 KB, 51 views)
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Old 07-11-2020, 11:14 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Liquid Caravan View Post
Hi!

First off, thank you so much! I'm so excited to utilize the full potential of my S49 Mk2 with Reaper. I've encountered a nagging behavior that I was hoping you could help with:

When I switch between tracks containing a KompleteKontrol instance, the keyboard reverts to MIDI mode. Also, Plug-in mode is not available (blacked out). Upon closer inspection of the KK GUI, I noticed that the little "49 keybed" image towards the top right is not lit (midi mode.jpg). When I click it, it lights up and my keyboard snaps into plug-in mode with all the premapped goodness (Plug-in Mode.jpg). When I switch away to another track with a KK instance, the keyboard reverts to midi mode again. This also happens when I click the "INSTANCE" button on the keyboard - there are no KK instances shown and it reverts to midi mode.

Win10 x64
Reaper v6.12c ReaKontrol v1.00 S49 MK2
KK 2.3.0 (R177)
NIHIA v1.10.0.166
"KOMPLETE KONTROL - 1" input is enable+control
"KOMPLETE KONTROL - 1" output is enable.
All others are disabled.
Control/OSC/Web is empty
Hmmm, obviously the instance focus does not work in your setup. Here are some potential reasons why instance focus does not work:

1) Have you renamed (the fx instance of) the KK VSTi? It should start with "VSTi: Komplete Kontrol"! After that you can rename it to whatever you want but it must start with that string. If it is changed to something different, it won't be recognized.

2) Are you firewalling your plugin instances? Options > Plug-Ins > Compatibilty: as per the manual do not run KK VSTi "In dedicated process per plugin"*

* If you are not sure about the latter please create a new project with more than 1 track with each holding the KK VSTi plugin and then check the very first fx parameter (click on Track Envelopes/Automation to make them visible): It should be "NIKB00" on the first KK instance, "NIKB01" on the next KK instance etc.

My guess is it is reason #1 above, maybe?
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Old 07-12-2020, 07:17 AM   #292
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1) Have you renamed (the fx instance of) the KK VSTi? It should start with "VSTi: Komplete Kontrol"!
I have not renamed my FX instance of the KK VSTi... but I did notice that it shows up as "VST: Komplete Kontrol", instead of VSTi. I do not have a VSTi version available to select.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brummbear View Post
2) Are you firewalling your plugin instances? Options > Plug-Ins > Compatibilty: as per the manual do not run KK VSTi "In dedicated process per plugin"
No, it is currently set to "Automatic Bridging (when required)". Also confirmed NIKB00 and NIKB01 in two tracks of a fresh project.

Thanks for the reply and any additional ideas you might have!
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:18 AM   #293
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I have not renamed my FX instance of the KK VSTi... but I did notice that it shows up as "VST: Komplete Kontrol", instead of VSTi. I do not have a VSTi version available to select.
Interesting! That means that for some reason Reaper did not recognize KK as an instrument when scanning your plugin library. To my best knowledge there is no VST version of KK, it should report itself as a VSTi to the host.

Luckily though, Reaper is the most flexible DAW on earth. Try this: Go into your Fx browser (e.g. press Add to bring up all plugins) and select KK VST. Now press F2 (or right click rename) and check the box "Categorize as instrument". Now everything hopefully works and Reaper will remember to treat KK as a VSTi. Let me know how it goes...
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Old 07-12-2020, 10:08 AM   #294
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Smile KK must be "VSTi", not "VST"

It worked!!! Now the instance focus works like a charm with my S49!!!

To recap: For some reason Reaper was listing Komplete Kontrol as a VST plugin instead of a VSTi plugin. To correct this, create track and open the plugin list. Select "VST: Komplete Kontrol", press F2, select "Catagorize as Instrument", and now it shows as a VSTi.


Also to recap: @Brummbear is a wizard. There are bad wizards out there, but @Brummbear is a good one. Top tier as far as good wizards go.

Thank you so much!
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Old 07-12-2020, 01:44 PM   #295
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Good to know. Thank you Brummbear.
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Old 07-12-2020, 10:01 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by brummbear View Post
Hi hilluck,
Not sure why you run into problems. There are no limitations in regards to mapping actions to the S88, MIDI learn, MIDI link etc. You can do exactly what you would do with any other MIDI controller. And you can do that on top of ReaKontrol, it coexists happily together with all the Reaper standard stuff.

I doubt that you have a defective unit. Maybe you simply forgot to enable control messages for your normal KOMPLETE KONTROL Midi Device in the Reaper options? You would do the latter if you want to have your MIDI CC buttons and knobs on the keyboard to act globally within Reaper, e.g. map an action to one of the top row buttons. All other variations of using MIDI messages from the keyboard to learn/link to Reaper actions, plugin controls etc are possible just like with any other keyboard incl more advanced concepts like using MIDItoReaControlPath.
And the NI software allows you to download templates into the keyboard's firmware to modify the Midi CCs, add names, create keybed zones, colors etc.

To rule out the remote possibility of having a defective unit I would simply log the incoming Midi from the keyboard on a track with ReaControlMidi (stock plugin which has a built in Logger). If you see CCs coming in when operating the keyboard you know everything is fine and you only have to configure Reaper / your project accordingly.
That's all it was - hadn't configured the MIDI device to enable CCs.
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:46 AM   #297
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Default Not a question about ReaKontrol, but Komplete Kontrol itself

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I haven't foudn the right forum to ask this question. Probably I should register at NI's forum...but figured I'd give a shot here since obviously KK users are visiting this thread.


I'm currently working on setting up for writing/jamming/rehearsal sessions. I've got a NI S-61 Mk1 keyboard that I have set up running Komplete Kontrol in standalone mode. I also have an iPad mounted over the S-61 running Duet display so I can see the plugin interface (and tweak parameters either from the controller, or the ipad). I then run the output back through Reaper so I can record it just like as if it were a synth plugged into a hardware input. I will see if I can set it up so the MIDI also gets saved by Reaper, but I'm not sure if this will be possible. The whole point is to allow for the sounds to be tweaked at the S-61, and then saved as presets in Komplete Kontrol so they can be easily recalled again.

And here's where the problem is...

It's easy enough in Komplete Kontrol to save a preset for an individual instrument...it's just "File | Save As". But if you have a couple instruments stacked on one another, or have an instrument plus an effect plugin (e.g. Monark going into Replika), I haven't found any way to save the chain into a preset. Does anybody know how to do this?

What I'm trying to achieve is to have a few basic "inspiring sounds" preset chains available prior getting the band together...I want to eliminate menu diving to the best extent possible, and focus on the music making.

Thx!
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Old 07-15-2020, 10:13 PM   #298
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if you have a couple instruments stacked on one another, or have an instrument plus an effect plugin (e.g. Monark going into Replika), I haven't found any way to save the chain into a preset. Does anybody know how to do this?
Just save it as a Reaper preset (click + at the top of the gui window).
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Old 07-16-2020, 05:50 AM   #299
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Just save it as a Reaper preset (click + at the top of the gui window).
I'm using it in standalone mode, so I can't use a Reaper chain to store it

Besides, my MK1 isn't compatible with the ReaKontrol plugin.
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Old 07-16-2020, 05:04 PM   #300
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I'm using it in standalone mode, so I can't use a Reaper chain to store it

Besides, my MK1 isn't compatible with the ReaKontrol plugin.
You'll need to start your own thread.
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Old 07-18-2020, 01:38 PM   #301
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How do I install the reakontrol plugin ? Whats the reapack link for this ? Pls ?
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Old 07-27-2020, 11:26 PM   #302
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Smile ReaKontrol v1.0

This plugin is amazing... Thank you so much!
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Old 08-03-2020, 03:51 PM   #303
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So a survery from NI came in my email recently really diving deep about how you feel about their products.

I feel like there are enough voices here that maybe we could get them to consider whatever you feel would help further development. So is there anything specific I should say to potentially help out this project?
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Old 08-03-2020, 04:02 PM   #304
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This plugin is really good.. it works great. I have a question. I am not able to map rec and play stop buttons on my keyboard to my custom play / stop and record actions in the actions list. Can someone help me how to do that? Thank you
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Old 08-04-2020, 06:24 AM   #305
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So a survery from NI came in my email recently really diving deep about how you feel about their products.

I feel like there are enough voices here that maybe we could get them to consider whatever you feel would help further development. So is there anything specific I should say to potentially help out this project?
Open up the API so that people don't need to reverse engineer like crazy.
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:31 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by hilluck
Hi again
I'm breaking my head trying to workout how to automate preset changes for plugins sitting within KK. I've looked at Youtube videos and discussion forums. Some suggest using a 2nd track to send to the KK track with program change midi info but it doesn't work. Is it possible??

Thanks for all your great work and advice.

Hi hilluck,
Also posting an answer in the public forum thread so that others may provide you with alternative answers or benefit from this discussion if they have a similar question. The question may belong in another thread anyway as I think the solution is actually unrelated to Komplete Kontrol.

Here is my shot at it:

As usual there are different ways to achieve this and the best way depends on your context.

1) You can simply send MIDI program change messages to KK if the plugin you are hosting inside of KK reacts to MIDI program changes. Many do. Out of the NI portfolio for example Massive, Kontakt, .....
This approach is like using VST fxb/fxb files (aka VST patch/bank file). Simple but limited to plugins that support MIDI program changes.

2) Another more universal approach is to use Reaper Fx user presets (= rpl files). This works irrespective of the plugin capabilities as Reaper Fx user presets save the entire state of the plugin (for example a KK plugin hosting a chain of other instrument and fx inside of KK incl all internal states).
Save your Reaper presets using the "+" button next to the drop down menu to later recall whatever settings you had inside of KK. Since these are rpl files the plugin does not even have to be a VST like KK, it can be anything (e.g. JSFX). For automation you can use SWS actions (e.g. move to next/previous preset via MIDI buttons learned to these actions, or having a continuous MIDI or OSC control to flick through all presets). And for the latter you can of course also create automation envelopes.

Note: One disadvantage of using preset changes (whether through program changes supported by the plugin itself or via Reaper Fx user presets) is that in a live situation it takes time to load the new preset. During this time you cannot play the new preset and in some instances you may get audio artifacts. Therefore, in live situations it is usually better to preload all instruments and presets you may want to use on individual tracks and then switch focus. This obviously consumes more memory resources. Another way of dealing with this problem is SWS LiveConfigs. It is a powerful tool supporting preset changes and automation. You will find dedicated instructions and a manual in the forum. However, I figure it might be overkill for what you seemingly try to achieve, i.e. simply switching presets and automating that.

Again, it does not matter if Komplete Kontrol is involved or not. Works with any plugin incl those hosted inside of KK.

I recommend you start playing around with approach 2 as it is most universal and thus best in many situations.
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Old 08-07-2020, 11:44 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by svijayrathinam View Post
This plugin is really good.. it works great. I have a question. I am not able to map rec and play stop buttons on my keyboard to my custom play / stop and record actions in the actions list. Can someone help me how to do that? Thank you
ReaKontrol maps the keyboard's transport buttons to Reaper's corresponding standard actions. To change that you would have to build your own version of ReaKontrol and change those actions to what you want.
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Old 08-22-2020, 11:43 AM   #308
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Hey brummbear,

just a small update. I'm back from holiday (ok, not yet but on tuesday).
I had a "painful time" with the NI support and the open bug regarding my Mikro MK3. After several ping-pongs with the first support person I had a discussion with another this week (maybe holiday situation, first supporter was out of office) who checked my case history.

The new supporter told me that
- there were maybe some misinterpretations about the main bug problem before by the previous support guy
- therefore the development department didn't know about that bug yet
- the next update (which was release on thursday) didn't include a bugfix for my problem
- it's not known when the problem will be fixed
- i asked if my problem also happens with the Maschine MK2 - no, it working with the MMK3 (i can confirm that now, only happens on the Mikro MK3)

Due to that facts i now have some sort of paperweight in my use case for an unknown amount of time. Nobody should get me wrong - i really like the Mikro MK3 and without a KKMK2 connected at the same time to a computer it's really nice. I'm selling my Mikro MK3 now on ebay and ordered a Maschine MK3, received it today.

That now adds another *real* possible use case for me and my niproto stuff - using my KKMK2 and the MMK3 displays/knobs.

BTW, I realized something today tinkering with the MMK3 regarding the "instances" stuff we talked about - maybe you know that before but:
- The official Ableton Live integration for the Maschine MK3 is listed as " and the Controller Editor regarding the "instances":
Ableton is listed on the MMK3 as "Instance XX - Ableton Live"
- The "Controller Editor" is also listed as "Instance XX - Controller Editor"

The display on the MMK3 is updated "live" when changes are done in the Controller Editor (which means, more stuff which can be sniffed).
That doesn't happen for the KK devices but i think, sniffing "Komplete Kontrol" when the light strip and knob configuration is changed in the "templates" section we can get some nice control message templates.

EDIT: confirmed > niproto prototype code works with Maschine MK3 only by changing the hardware ID to 0x1600 in the connect message. I can get the ON/OFF messages with the serial in the same way like with the KKMK2.

Last edited by terminar; 08-23-2020 at 07:36 AM.
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Old 08-29-2020, 05:23 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by terminar View Post
BTW, I realized something today tinkering with the MMK3 regarding the "instances" stuff we talked about - maybe you know that before but:
- The official Ableton Live integration for the Maschine MK3 is listed as " and the Controller Editor regarding the "instances":
Ableton is listed on the MMK3 as "Instance XX - Ableton Live"
didn't know that but it is interesting! Does that mean Ableton is treated like inhouse NI applications then, i.e. they also communicate via the NamedPipes / MachPorts rather than MIDI and/or OSC? Or does Ableton simply get special "hardcoded" treatment in terms of showing it as instance but still using the MIDI/OSC communication (similar to those special Cubase interface commands). I have not bothered looking at any recent host integration scripts for Ableton as I have abandoned using it.

Quote:
- The "Controller Editor" is also listed as "Instance XX - Controller Editor"
Yeah, it has always done this - even on my old Mikro Mk2. So yes, there may be additional commands worth sniffing.

Quote:
That doesn't happen for the KK devices but i think, sniffing "Komplete Kontrol" when the light strip and knob configuration is changed in the "templates" section we can get some nice control message templates.
Agree! This might open a path to identify light control via the NamesPipes / MachPorts
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Old 08-30-2020, 04:05 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by brummbear View Post
didn't know that but it is interesting! Does that mean Ableton is treated like inhouse NI applications then, i.e. they also communicate via the NamedPipes / MachPorts rather than MIDI and/or OSC?
I thought so but - no.

I investigated the Ableton scripts for the JAM, KKMK2, KKSMK2, MMMK3 and MMK3 to get an overview how the NI hardware is connected.

----------
- MMMK3: worst implementation - Controller Editor just creates a special MIDI template to have pages for the pads, you can enable "Host Transport Control" (which seems to be Mackie) - some bad and uncompleted "special" MIDI mapping scripts exist but they don't add any real advance. Generally the MMMK3 is just degraded to a plain MIDI compatible button press engine device. I don't think anybody has looked into possible sysex stuff yet. With the Machine2-SW it just uses the own proprietary protocol, and that's all. Technically due to the fact that both the MMMK3 and KKSMK2 are using the "Bome virtual MIDI" stuff and are implemented in the NIHIA maybe the same sysex stuff is used

- KKSMK2: seems to only use MIDI+sysex, nothing special about "instances" here, I think the same stuff as used in reaKontrol, has it's own python code folder

- MMK3: There are two scripts for the MMK3, both semi-finished and with different implementation ideas
=> "Maschine MK3 Legacy": which was intended for Ableton9; maybe based on Maschine Studio template (old code there); best integration, even clip launching is working, the A-H device buttons are usable, but some things don't work in Ableton10 anymore (setting mixer levels are not working, Restart button - i am not sure if they worked in Ableton9, maybe only a controller editor template is missing); uses MIDI messages with SysEx, the displays are not used in a special mode, no "mixer control", nothing, just MIDI parameter visible and some general text like "SENDS A & MUTE; SENDS B", "LEVEL & MUTE; PAN"

=> newer "Maschine MK3" support: uses OSC and seems to have own OSC namespace "/live/*", announces itself as instance "Ableton Live" on the controller, connects to remote port 7579; mixer-, transport-, general 4D-knob- controls, basic stuff but the mixer is visible in the displays. Can be used together with the "Controller Editor" template configuration which allows to set buttons to "MCU" mode.

- KKMK2: (not the S), uses the same stuff as the Maschine MK3 - really, shared code; general OSC connection but connects to remote port 7575. Can't test the functionality but looking at the code it makes sense.

- JAM: by far the best Ableton integration i've seen (in videos and looking at the code). MIDI+SysEx. The code folders from the "JAM" and "MK3 Legacy" have many files with the same names and nearly same content - one seems to be based on the other.

--------
Regarding the MK3 i don't know what to say. Neither the "Maschine MK3 Legacy" nor the "Maschine MK3" template is fully working as expected with Ableton. Put both together in mind, merge them and it would be great but currently... The "Legacy" feels more integrated when i just look at the pads and buttons but then i don't have things like the mixer control display and so on. When I want to use the newer MK3 template it feels more mature and correct but most of the things are not working anymore, it's just basic transport stuff and configurable via Controller Editor templates mixing MIDI with Mackie/MCU.
It's a shame because i think the device(s) are really awesome and with a little bit effort the MK3 can even be a real alternative to the Push2 (for Ableton specific stuff). Whatever.

---------
Quote:
Originally Posted by brummbear View Post
Or does Ableton simply get special "hardcoded" treatment in terms of showing it as instance but still using the MIDI/OSC communication (similar to those special Cubase interface commands). I have not bothered looking at any recent host integration scripts for Ableton as I have abandoned using it.
Yes, seems so. When the OSC stuff with the "/live/" namespace (or prefix, don't know what the correct name should be on OSC, not familiar enough) is used it shows up as instance. I am using Ableton currently in the extended COVID-19 test period just to learn and open my mind a bit.

BTW some side note i heared: only the newer devices are using the "Bome virtual MIDI", the older devices are using another virtual MIDI stack. Maybe "Bome" is used in NIHIA (where all devices seem to share the "Virtual MIDI - DAW 1" port name) so all devices which are driven by NIHIA have the same bug. Devices driven by NIHA shouldn't be affected.

-----

Some progress update:
I was able to send the first messages, received the answer messages "platform generalized" via Lua script to NIHA/NIHIA via my framework on OSX.

For Windows i still have to move the platform specific functions (open, send, close, create, loop, ...) from the prototype code to the Windows-backend but that shouldn't be a problem, it's just work to do. I'll focus on this when i'm finished with the script to the point that i can get announcements about a device (serial => device on/device off).

I moved (and decoupled) the data generation for the messages and parsing of the result messages completely to the Lua script code. That has a big impact: the platform code is just getting data blocks/streams without knowing about the content, it's just forwarding data between NIHA/NIHIA using the platform specific IPC mechanism. To implement the protocol messages i can now just use the Lua code without recompiling. The negative part of this *may* be speed and latency but i keep that in mind. If the protocol messages are reversed correctly the generation of specific messages/results can be moved to the C/C++ code and be called by the Scripts just like before, nothing has to be changed later on in the scripts.

Currently i'm working on the callback code which is the last big part of the core - listening for messages and passing data from the backend to the script.
When a listening port is created (needs to be done when NIHA/NIHIA sends data to the device) the data is passed async via callback handler with mach ports. The same applies also on Windows when using overlapped IO, i have to announce data via async callback due to a FSM loop situation.

EDIT: next milestone reached
I finished the callback code, i'm now able to receive the messages from the machport callbacks via script and can parse the serial ON/OFF join/leave messages - and it's still working as expected. I'm quite excited about the progress of the last days and especially today.

Last edited by terminar; 08-30-2020 at 01:42 PM. Reason: update due to finished callback code
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Old 09-01-2020, 05:48 PM   #311
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Just wanted to say, I didn't know I had this installed through ReaPack, so when I plugged in my new mk2 and it was controlling Reaper in MIDI mode right out of the box, I was floored! Thanks so much for this!

I gather there's not much possibility to customize it short of learning to do it myself?

Only thing that I find totally unintuitive is moving the main knob left and right to change tracks. I'm doing it by accident a lot and would rather turn the dial for that anyway. Any easy way for me to switch those behaviors?

Thanks again, either way!
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Old 09-02-2020, 01:59 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
Just wanted to say, I didn't know I had this installed through ReaPack, so when I plugged in my new mk2 and it was controlling Reaper in MIDI mode right out of the box, I was floored! Thanks so much for this!

I gather there's not much possibility to customize it short of learning to do it myself?

Only thing that I find totally unintuitive is moving the main knob left and right to change tracks. I'm doing it by accident a lot and would rather turn the dial for that anyway. Any easy way for me to switch those behaviors?

Thanks again, either way!
Glad you like the surprise. Just don't skip reading the manual with recommended Reaper settings - you may get much more out of it.

Rg the 4D encoder: Yeah, I thought the same thing initially but decided to follow NI's intent just to keep things consistent. The left/right movement to change tracks follows the mixer layout / MCP logic: both in Reaper and on the keyboard the tracks are sorted from left to right. Of course, in Reaper's TCP view it is up/down and project markers are left/right. I guess we long time Reaper users are just more accustomed to the timeline metaphor. What I may do in the next release is making it configurable via the ini file. From a SW perspective it is very easy to do... In the meantime: Enjoy your new toy!

Last edited by brummbear; 09-02-2020 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 09-02-2020, 02:07 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by terminar View Post
I moved (and decoupled) the data generation for the messages and parsing of the result messages completely to the Lua script code. That has a big impact: the platform code is just getting data blocks/streams without knowing about the content, it's just forwarding data between NIHA/NIHIA using the platform specific IPC mechanism. To implement the protocol messages i can now just use the Lua code without recompiling. The negative part of this *may* be speed and latency but i keep that in mind.

[...]

EDIT: next milestone reached
I finished the callback code, i'm now able to receive the messages from the machport callbacks via script and can parse the serial ON/OFF join/leave messages - and it's still working as expected. I'm quite excited about the progress of the last days and especially today.
Very cool! I think this architecture makes a lot of sense and would not be too worried about Lua performance (maybe extensive use of the displays could become a bottleneck but otherwise I do not anticipate much of a challenge in terms of real world use cases).

I am curious what ideas will emerge from this. Lua really lowers the entry barrier for many people to get creative with the NI gear.
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Old 09-02-2020, 07:07 PM   #314
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What I may do in the next release is making it configurable via the ini file.
Yes please and thanks you! The more customization, the merrier (and the more Reapery) It's not a big deal, I have at least 3 other controllers handy to change the track with a knob.

I just find the whole knob-tilting feature finicky and unnecessary. Plenty of room around it for 4+ buttons that I won't accidentally activate by turning the knob... I wonder if other people find the design convenient? Sending data by merely touching the knob is pure genius though.

Sorry to get OT.
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Old 09-03-2020, 02:14 AM   #315
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I am curious what ideas will emerge from this. Lua really lowers the entry barrier for many people to get creative with the NI gear.
I had an initial talk with a user at the Native Instruments forum. He tinkered a bit with the Ableton integration of the MK3 and the KKS devices.
He is currently developing with/on the NI devices via usb on OSX.

I messaged him to give a short information about what i am going to try (and why, regarding direct usb use etc), which progress i had until now (without making any promises), just to know if he is maybe also interested.
Indeed he is - he is also unhappy with the direct-usb situation and thinking about some other use case for the devices (and is currently prototyping and application).

That started the idea in my head of integrating an OSC frontend later to let other applications connect to the framework via semi-known and defined protocol. It shouldn't be a problem to launch the scripted stuff via OSC. But don't get me wrong, there will still be the low-level library call possibility for direct integration. The OSC idea will just be an addition to the current "main application" which just acts as gateway.
But - just thinking out loud.

As always, i'll give feedback when new progress happened. Next in queue: getting the current state of code work on Windows.
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