Old 12-15-2014, 10:03 AM   #1
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Default Kontakt Library Crashing Reaper...

Hey all. Over Thanksgiving I bought a couple of things and one of them was a Kontakt library. I loaded it up in Reaper and the other drum machine UVI library I bought (which requires ilok management software). I installed everything and got the ilok crap authorized.

Everything worked in Reaper until I closed the project. Computer decided to give me the shutting down dialog box and just shut down within seconds...? So, I fired it back up and clicked around and all was normal until I tried to open reaper and during that process, the dialog box prompted another Windows is shutting down, which it did.

Now I was convinced it was something I just purchased as reaper never did that before. I uninstalled the ilok software and removed the drum machine dll temporarily from plug-ins folder. Fired up reaper and all was well until I went to close reaper. Same crap... Shut down. The only thing left was the kontakt library which doesn't consist of a dll obviously as its a sample library. I removed it from the project and reinstalled the ilok and drum machine plug and I've never had another problem.

My question is how in the heck does a sample library in Kontakt contain anything that would force my computer to shut down? It was a big sample library, and had a folder for Kontakt to recognize it as an official Kontakt library. It has the normal Kontakt nki and samples. Really puzzled with this. I haven't inserted it into a project since as something is obviously out of whack.

The weird part is I didn't see any crash reports in Windows logging these shut downs. Any ideas from the many Kontakt gurus on this forum?

Thanks
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Old 12-15-2014, 03:20 PM   #2
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Anyone? Suggestions?
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Old 12-15-2014, 04:58 PM   #3
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Anyone? Suggestions?
Hey Doc, Kontakt does have dll files and you need to have them in your VST folder(s), both for 32bit and 64bit. Nearly all sample libraries still require a dll file.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:08 PM   #4
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Possibly something on your system may be interacting with the ilok in a bad way?

Kontakt used to be a bit crashy in reaper but that got fixed (disable multi-core options in kontakt settings was the fix for that at the time)
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:48 PM   #5
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Hey Doc, Kontakt does have dll files and you need to have them in your VST folder(s), both for 32bit and 64bit. Nearly all sample libraries still require a dll file.
HI Tod.

kontakt dll files??!

I must be missing something... Why would Kontakt libraries need a dll file? I have a bunch of kontakt libraries and none of them came with a dll.

OH. You must be thinking I'm referring to Kontakt itself... I am talking the Kontakt libraries and not Kontakt the sampler.

The library I'm having an issue with has no dll file anywhere in the download. There are only the instruments, the multis, and the samples. There other component is a NICNT file (I think that is for the official library authorization in Kontakt. I have a bunch of Kontakt libraries and I have never seen a dll in any of them.

.nkm - I'm assuming multis
.nki - I'm assuming instrument
.nkc - I have no idea
. nkr - I have no idea
. nkx - I have no idea

Weird.
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:53 PM   #6
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Possibly something on your system may be interacting with the ilok in a bad way?

Kontakt used to be a bit crashy in reaper but that got fixed (disable multi-core options in kontakt settings was the fix for that at the time)
Hey dub.

It isn't the ilok authorization manager because I unistalled it and still had the unprompted forced shut downs.
It definitely in the Kontakt library I bought. Really strange. Thanks for the input.
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:15 PM   #7
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The library I'm having an issue with has no dll file anywhere in the download. There are only the instruments, the multis, and the samples. There other component is a NICNT file (I think that is for the official library authorization in Kontakt. I have a bunch of Kontakt libraries and I have never seen a dll in any of them.

.nkm - I'm assuming multis
.nki - I'm assuming instrument
.nkc - I have no idea
. nkr - I have no idea
. nkx - I have no idea

Weird.
Okay Doc, but you do know that there is a Kontakt dll file and Reaper has to be able to access it before you can even load an instance of Kontakt.

Once you load Kontakt into Reaper then you can access the nkm and nki files.

If indeed you can even access the nki or nkm files in Reaper then you must have Kontakt loaded in to Reaper which means Reaper sees the dll files. Unless of course you're using Kontakt in Stand-a-lone mode which is a whole other matter.

You're right, the Kontakt libraries themselves don't have dll files but Kontakt does.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:16 PM   #8
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Okay Doc, but you do know that there is a Kontakt dll file and Reaper has to be able to access it before you can even load an instance of Kontakt.

Once you load Kontakt into Reaper then you can access the nkm and nki files.

If indeed you can even access the nki or nkm files in Reaper then you must have Kontakt loaded in to Reaper which means Reaper sees the dll files. Unless of course you're using Kontakt in Stand-a-lone mode which is a whole other matter.

You're right, the Kontakt libraries themselves don't have dll files but Kontakt does.
HI Tod.

Yeah I wasn't being very clear. I know Kontakt itself obviously is a vsti but I was actually referring to the third party libraries that aren't. I was just wondering what in a third party kontakt library could cause my system to initiate a forced shut down as there are no dll files in third party kontakt libraries to get corrupted.
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Old 12-15-2014, 11:27 PM   #9
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HI Tod.

Yeah I wasn't being very clear. I know Kontakt itself obviously is a vsti but I was actually referring to the third party libraries that aren't. I was just wondering what in a third party kontakt library could cause my system to initiate a forced shut down as there are no dll files in third party kontakt libraries to get corrupted.
Hi Doc, obviously you do understand you have to have the Kontakt dll files where Reaper can access them and you're absolutely right, if Reaper can load Kontakt then all you need is the nki or nkm files.

If the Kontakt library has been built using a Resource file then you also need the nkr and nkc files in the directory where the nki files are, or at the very least the nki file has to point to the nkr file. However, if the Kontakt can't find the nkr file it will ask for it's location, and even if you don't find the location, it still shouldn't crash.

I've never had Kontakt crash like you describe. However, I have had Reaper do some funny things while I was working with Kontakt but that's usually after working for a long period of time and I've been pushing Kontakt pretty hard, usually developing a script.

It could be a nki file that has a bad script. I've seen many times where a script will be slightly corrupted but yet seemingly compile without an error.

Do all nki files cause Reaper to crash or is it just one or two?
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Old 12-16-2014, 03:12 AM   #10
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My question is how in the heck does a sample library in Kontakt contain anything that would force my computer to shut down?
It doesn't.
It is *highly probable* that ilok could be your problem and this sounds identical to past incidents with ilok copy protection that I have previously read about.

Reinstalling ilok seems to have fixed your problem so that's good.
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:37 AM   #11
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Hi Doc, obviously you do understand you have to have the Kontakt dll files where Reaper can access them and you're absolutely right, if Reaper can load Kontakt then all you need is the nki or nkm files.

If the Kontakt library has been built using a Resource file then you also need the nkr and nkc files in the directory where the nki files are, or at the very least the nki file has to point to the nkr file. However, if the Kontakt can't find the nkr file it will ask for it's location, and even if you don't find the location, it still shouldn't crash.

I've never had Kontakt crash like you describe. However, I have had Reaper do some funny things while I was working with Kontakt but that's usually after working for a long period of time and I've been pushing Kontakt pretty hard, usually developing a script.

It could be a nki file that has a bad script. I've seen many times where a script will be slightly corrupted but yet seemingly compile without an error.

Do all nki files cause Reaper to crash or is it just one or two?
It wasn't crashing while I used it. It crashed upon opening or closing Reaper. Once I removed the track with kontakt and that particular library on it, I never had a problem after that. That's how I know it's something in that llibrary. It's a 18 part download so who knows what got corrupted...
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:38 AM   #12
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I should add it's not Kontakt because all my other tracks with kontakt work flawlessly, it's in that library I just bought.
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:42 AM   #13
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It crashed upon opening or closing Reaper.
Just for kicks... There is an option in Reaper for handling the unloading of VSTs when closing Reaper and/or loading projects. Enable that if not already enabled.

However, due to the mysterious shutdown, I would suspect something like iLok or low-level because you won't get that message unless something like crss or wininit crash. Shouldn't be wininit though since it will BSOD the box when it dies but could be one of the other 2-4 critical processes that will not allow the computer to remain running if they die/crash. Maybe winlogon but either way, it's pretty ugly if something is hooking in or causing any of these processes to crash.
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:45 AM   #14
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I should add it's not Kontakt because all my other tracks with kontakt work flawlessly, it's in that library I just bought.
Hi Doc, do you mind telling us what library it is, just for awareness sake.
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Old 12-16-2014, 11:57 AM   #15
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Here is a wild guess:

IF the Lib is one that gets automatically added and registered into the Kontakt browser... AND IF there is also some corrupted file in the library, then the crashing might be happening while Kontakt is trying to add that Lib and also include it into the Kontakt database.

I would try to run the standalone version of Kontakt [no reaper running] and see how this Lib behaves with that.

fyi: .nkr files are packed resource containers... they contain all the pictures, scripts, IR wav's, etc. that the Lib will want to use.
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Old 12-16-2014, 01:01 PM   #16
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Thanks a ton for the replies all. It can't be the ilok software as I unistalled it when this problem started and I still had the issue. I then removed the track that had the Kontakt library in question from my project and I have never had that issue since. I have not tried loading it in another kontakt instance since I am at the end of an album I've been working on and I don't need catastrophic issues at this point, I'd rather not use the library.

I don't want to put out the name of the library because I believe the download is probably corrupted and that isn't the fault of the dev. If someone wants to know pm me and I'll say. Again though, I am pretty sure something went awry in the 19 different download rar packages, or when they were merged something got screwed up. You all know a lot more about this than I do but I'm just using deduction at this point and I have no more issues by not using that library.

I will try kontakt stand alone tonight and see what happens.

Thanks for the explanation of the nkr files.

How about nkx/nkc?

It's not important I'm just curious and like to learn.
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Old 12-16-2014, 01:24 PM   #17
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How about nkx/nkc?

It's not important I'm just curious and like to learn.
I don't know anything about nkx or nkc files, but there is a nka which is a data base for holding arrays and variables, the folder for it is in the Resources folder. Kind of like Data Tables. At this point I've never used them but sometime soon.
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:36 PM   #18
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if you google for something like, "Kontakt nkx files" you will be shown

same for all the other file extension names
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Old 12-17-2014, 09:07 PM   #19
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New development. I have not loaded the library in question yet but loaded the UVI workstation with the drum machine library and it shut down the computer again on exiting Reaper. The library won't function without the ilok authorization software installed on my computer. Maybe it was the ilok crap this whole time. It's the software version of it but something is causing my system to shut down. UVI player, drum machine library or ilok software.

Hmmmm.
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Old 12-17-2014, 10:56 PM   #20
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I would try something like hopi suggested for Kontakt - see if UVI has a standalone to run your library safe first.

Then I would try mark UVI to run in separate process in Reaper and see if any difference.

Next, kontakt UVI folks so they get feedback and can see where the problem is. If on iLok level or something else. They chose iLok, so if it causes problems for customers they should know about it.

It seems too outrageous that iLok should shut down system due to failing authorization or similar. But I believe anything regarding this - it would make cracking more difficult.
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Old 12-18-2014, 07:40 AM   #21
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I would try something like hopi suggested for Kontakt - see if UVI has a standalone to run your library safe first.

Then I would try mark UVI to run in separate process in Reaper and see if any difference.

Next, kontakt UVI folks so they get feedback and can see where the problem is. If on iLok level or something else. They chose iLok, so if it causes problems for customers they should know about it.

It seems too outrageous that iLok should shut down system due to failing authorization or similar. But I believe anything regarding this - it would make cracking more difficult.
Hey Nip

I can run the Kontakt library and the UVI library stand alone with no issues. When opening or closing reaper is when things get dicy.
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