Workflow improvements for media composer

Michael Firmont · 01-04-2019, 03:33 AM

After talking with _Stevie_ about features we would be more than happy to see in upcoming versions of Reaper, we came up with the following list :-)

1. Performance improvement with many tracks (500+). I rebuild my huge Cubase template in Reaper using VEP and it slowed down completely. Reaper wasn't usable at all, it already was slopping scrolling up and down in the Main Window (And Buffer Rate was at 2048)
>>>> This is a must have :/ Would love to use Reaper but can't work with it right now
2. Adding more Outputs to VST3. Right now it's limited to 64, would be more than helpful to be able to go up to at least 250 (Vienna Ensemble Pro 6 in mind)

3. VCA Fader - Better clarity about the channels they are controlling. (for example, see picture attached)

4. Folder Tracks (Example: Cubase, see picture attached) >>> Edit: The folder function is mainly visual. The Folder track itself shouldn't have any Faders, just a Solo and a Mute Function and the Ability to Group Edit the tracks assigned to it. But beside this, no routing and nothing else to it. But when I close the folder, the tracks completely disappear. I think it's done pretty well in Cubase (can't read it anymore, hue? :P ) I am also open to other cool ideas that maybe could be done with a Folder but it should be a simple, non routing visual enhancing thingy :-)

5. Track Inspector (Again.... Cubase, I am sorry

) It is also much easier to address color to tracks then! I know there is an amazing script, would be a blast to see this as a standard...

5. SIMPLE Routing. Yes.... I know, the routing possibilities in Reaper are massive, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be the possibility to make it easier AND way faster for standard routing :-) It is really time-consuming to open a separate window, choose the path and then deselect the master.
It would be more than helpful to have drop-down menus like in other DAWs. (See Picture Routing 3 attached) You can just choose the destination of your track with the output-dropdown button at the top of the Mix Window.
Or you can choose the Output in the Track Inspector. Nice and easy. And it's routed to JUST this one track then! No Send, just easy and simply routed.
The same for Midi Routing. With the inspector, you can just choose the first destination (f.e. the VEP Instance, see picture "Routing 2") and then the normal Midi Channel (All, 1-16). I can see the possibilities of the more complex options, but it would be more than amazing to have a fast option as well!

7. Item Lock, you can still cut the items, should be a total lock.

8. If you deactivate a track it should really use NO resources

9. And as a usual request :P A modern, slick, flat and dark Theme :-)

The most important point would be the performance issue (by far the most important, it's a be or not to be for Reaper in my case :/ ). I think not only Media Composers but all users would profit from these changes. It would be a blast to see these features in an upcoming version of Reaper (maybe 6? :-))) ) If I can help in any way with the performance thingy, by testing the new version I am more than happy to help!

All the best

Michael

bFooz · 01-04-2019, 05:06 AM

I agree with all, although the folder point would need more explanation.

Michael Firmont · 01-04-2019, 05:13 AM

Done! Added something, always open for ideas :-) And thank you!

Masi · 01-04-2019, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Firmont

4. Folder Tracks (Example: Cubase, see picture attached) >>> Edit: The folder function is mainly visual. The Folder track itself shouldn't have any Faders, just a Solo and a Mute Function and the Ability to Group Edit the tracks assigned to it. But beside this, no routing and nothing else to it. But when I close the folder, the tracks completely disappear. I think it's done pretty well in Cubase (can't read it anymore, hue? :P )

I also would like the child folders to disappear when I close the folder, but I need the fader. Actually I need everything not related to recording as I often use a folder as a bus.

Masi

Michael Firmont · 01-04-2019, 09:24 AM

@Masi: Why not having both!

A folder option more similar to the actual one and a folder without being a bus and like I am describing it :-)

Masi · 01-04-2019, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Firmont

@Masi: Why not having both!

A folder option more similar to the actual one and a folder without being a bus and like I am describing it :-)

No problem with that. Though all that is missing is a layout style and the possibility to hide the children. Looking from the outside I guess that's easier to do than to create a new track type. AFAIK all tracks are the same in Reaper contrary to other DAWs.

Masi

PS: I have no way to prove it, but I think requesting only one feature per thread raises the chances for implementation. Mostly I ignore threads with ambiguous subjects liker "better X" or "improvements for Y".

Xaviez · 01-04-2019, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Firmont

4. Folder Tracks (Example: Cubase, see picture attached) >>> Edit: The folder function is mainly visual. The Folder track itself shouldn't have any Faders, just a Solo and a Mute Function and the Ability to Group Edit the tracks assigned to it. But beside this, no routing and nothing else to it. But when I close the folder, the tracks completely disappear. I think it's done pretty well in Cubase (can't read it anymore, hue? :P ) I am also open to other cool ideas that maybe could be done with a Folder but it should be a simple, non routing visual enhancing thingy :-)

Folder tracks should not change in Reaper imo, what you are asking for is fully possible using themes. You can set separate layouts for specific tracks, so your folder tracks can have a layout without a fader whereas your regular tracks has one.
That said, I prefer my folder tracks to stay as they are, summing busses/stems for whatever I put inside them, which means they need a fader in my case.
Furtermore, it is also possible for a theme to completely hide the child tracks when you collapse the folder completely.
I've attached two screenshots, one showing my folder tracks having a different layout to the instrument tracks, the other showing that once I collapse the folder all the child tracks are hidden.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Firmont

5. Track Inspector (Again.... Cubase, I am sorry

) It is also much easier to address color to tracks then! I know there is an amazing script, would be a blast to see this as a standard...

I have to agree, the inspector is quite useful in Cubase, something similar would be highly appreciated, especially if it could house the option to set a negative track delay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Firmont

5. SIMPLE Routing. Yes.... I know, the routing possibilities in Reaper are massive, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be the possibility to make it easier AND way faster for standard routing :-) It is really time-consuming to open a separate window, choose the path and then deselect the master.
It would be more than helpful to have drop-down menus like in other DAWs. (See Picture Routing 3 attached) You can just choose the destination of your track with the output-dropdown button at the top of the Mix Window.
Or you can choose the Output in the Track Inspector. Nice and easy. And it's routed to JUST this one track then! No Send, just easy and simply routed.
The same for Midi Routing. With the inspector, you can just choose the first destination (f.e. the VEP Instance, see picture "Routing 2") and then the normal Midi Channel (All, 1-16). I can see the possibilities of the more complex options, but it would be more than amazing to have a fast option as well!

As far as sends goes, I think it's quite easy as it is, of course having the drop down directly would speed things up slightly, but very slightly I think.
Are you also aware that you can drag and drop for routing? If you drag from the IO button on a track you want to send, then drop it on a track you want to send to, you've done the routing already.
Lastly, are you aware that you can edit the contextual menus in Reaper? So if you want quick access to for instance setting the MIDI channel for a track, you can add that to the top of the right click menu for tracks. See this video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOmZNJ2NIiQ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Firmont

8. If you deactivate a track it should really use NO resources

It doesn't? I'm not sure how you go about deactivating a track, as I haven't found a built in function for it, in fact I'm using a script to set all plugins to offline, lock the track and mute it, which seems to have it take little to no resources.
I've included two screenshots, one showing my resource use in an empty instance of Reaper (no tracks added, but monitoring plugin is loaded on that bus), and another one showing one of my templates loaded with 80+ tracks with Kontakt loaded on each of them, most of them with orchestral libraries loaded but purged. All tracks except 3 reverb tracks are "disabled" using the script, the 3 reverb tracks each have a different reverb plugin loaded.
The difference in resource usage is negligible imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Firmont

9. And as a usual request :P A modern, slick, flat and dark Theme :-)

There's plenty of themes out there, just find one you like

That having been said, a nicer looking default theme might not scare off so many first time tryers, so I support your wish

Michael Firmont · 01-05-2019, 02:22 AM

@Masi: Oh.... ok, harm done already, I don#t want to spam veerything full with single threads now ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaviez

Folder tracks should not change in Reaper imo, what you are asking for is fully possible using themes. You can set separate layouts for specific tracks, so your folder tracks can have a layout without a fader whereas your regular tracks has one.
That said, I prefer my folder tracks to stay as they are, summing busses/stems for whatever I put inside them, which means they need a fader in my case.
Furtermore, it is also possible for a theme to completely hide the child tracks when you collapse the folder completely.
I've attached two screenshots, one showing my folder tracks having a different layout to the instrument tracks, the other showing that once I collapse the folder all the child tracks are hidden.

Yes, I know the option via themes and I really don't wanna take your "Bus folders" away. I just would REALLY love to see an additional standard folder already in the default theme. Why? Because the default theme is the theme most/all scripts aim for. Some of the changes to the layout I did haven't been able to transfer to other layouts. This is the reason I would REALLY favor a nice default theme. And folder tracks that are just folders (with the mute/solo and group edit function). And not taking yours away :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaviez

I have to agree, the inspector is quite useful in Cubase, something similar would be highly appreciated, especially if it could house the option to set a negative track delay

Amen to the track delay xD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaviez

As far as sends goes, I think it's quite easy as it is, of course having the drop down directly would speed things up slightly, but very slightly I think.
Are you also aware that you can drag and drop for routing? If you drag from the IO button on a track you want to send, then drop it on a track you want to send to, you've done the routing already.
Lastly, are you aware that you can edit the contextual menus in Reaper? So if you want quick access to for instance setting the MIDI channel for a track, you can add that to the top of the right click menu for tracks. See this video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOmZNJ2NIiQ

First of all, thanks for the link! I already watched hundred tutorials till now and most of his videos but somehow missed this!
And yes I am aware of the drag and drop :-)
But... and it's a big but... I don't know how big the projects are you are working in (and maybe they are huge but you don't care). But setting up several hundred tracks will make a difference how you think about that one additional click. Per track (the hate was strong in me :P ).... and if you have address several tracks to another track (and this track is not totally close to them, d&d doesn't work well anymore. I like the option via the track routing window. But overall...I don't see any reason why not having a simple and effectiv output drop down menue. It's def making things faster (esp. over time), more comfortable and more easy for people switching from other DAWs :-) It is also just confusing to me, to rout a track to another track and see this as a send like sending it to a reverb. :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaviez

There's plenty of themes out there, just find one you like

That having been said, a nicer looking default theme might not scare off so many first time tryers, so I support your wish

Hahahah thanks! As I mentioned aboth, I think there are even more reasons for a nice default theme. But the option for other themes is really awesome... but also sometimes time consuming xD

And thanks to your massiv feedback!
_Stevie_ will say something to the "ressource" topic, it was his point hahaha

bFooz · 01-05-2019, 03:11 AM

Regarding sends dropdown - try Shift+left click into sends area in the mixer, or right-click on the routing icon in both TCP and MCP.

_Stevie_ · 01-05-2019, 04:11 AM

Concerning disabled tracks, that's the thread you might want to read:
https://forums.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1994704

And especially Klangfarben's insightful posts:
https://forums.cockos.com/showpost.p...3&postcount=11
https://forums.cockos.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=16

Edit: actually, read the whole thread, there are so many brilliant findings and posts there.

_Stevie_ · 01-06-2019, 11:09 AM

Let me add another feature:

(a native) retrospective record for MIDI

Michael Firmont · 01-06-2019, 03:12 PM

Thanks bFooz! :-) I really really hope the performance issue will be addressed, I want to leave Cubase behind... :P

vdubreeze · 01-06-2019, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Firmont

7. Item Lock, you can still cut the items, should be a total lock.

The item lock behavior is huge. Some details about the current semi locked sate of locked items is here:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....ight=item+lock

A simple lock on anything should be absolute, nothing can change. If one wants to have it so that an item can be cut while position locked or vice versa, and etc., it would be better if they could change a default absolute locked state to that rather than the current way.

Japanori · 01-08-2019, 02:53 AM

I agree with your points. I really love to use Reaper, but I'm thinking to go back to Cubase because of the performance issue... I made a lot of track templates and created shortcuts for them. However, I need to have a large template with disabled (empty) tracks to work faster.

vdubreeze · 01-08-2019, 10:00 AM

I would add simple, efficient native track grouping to the list. None of the workarounds I’ve explored, which are layers of scripts added to item grouping, are substitute options, IMO. I can sometimes get around it by locking items on other tracks, but then there’s the item half-locking behavior. Those are two of the biggest headscratchers to observers when working together in Reaper.

Travesty · 01-15-2019, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Firmont

1. Performance improvement with many tracks (500+). I rebuild my huge Cubase template in Reaper using VEP and it slowed down completely. Reaper wasn't usable at all, it already was slopping scrolling up and down in the Main Window (And Buffer Rate was at 2048)
>>>> This is a must have :/ Would love to use Reaper but can't work with it right now

Try setting thread behavior to relaxed. Though there is an issue here, my Cubase colleague finds it very amusing.

Quote:

2. Adding more Outputs to VST3. Right now it's limited to 64, would be more than helpful to be able to go up to at least 250 (Vienna Ensemble Pro 6 in mind)

Yes please

Quote:

3. VCA Fader - Better clarity about the channels they are controlling. (for example, see picture attached)

Yes please

Quote:

4. Folder Tracks (Example: Cubase, see picture attached) >>> Edit: The folder function is mainly visual. The Folder track itself shouldn't have any Faders, just a Solo and a Mute Function and the Ability to Group Edit the tracks assigned to it. But beside this, no routing and nothing else to it. But when I close the folder, the tracks completely disappear. I think it's done pretty well in Cubase (can't read it anymore, hue? :P ) I am also open to other cool ideas that maybe could be done with a Folder but it should be a simple, non routing visual enhancing thingy :-)

You can create a track layout with no controls, and if you then turn off master parent send it will not have inherent routing. I would love the folder editing of clips though, bitwig has this too. I think if we had midi subprojects, this would be somewhat mitigated though.

Quote:

5. Track Inspector (Again.... Cubase, I am sorry

) It is also much easier to address color to tracks then! I know there is an amazing script, would be a blast to see this as a standard...

Yeah I use the script, but would be good to have it native, the bitwig one is particularly good at multi editing.

Quote:

5. SIMPLE Routing. Yes.... I know, the routing possibilities in Reaper are massive, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be the possibility to make it easier AND way faster for standard routing :-) It is really time-consuming to open a separate window, choose the path and then deselect the master.
It would be more than helpful to have drop-down menus like in other DAWs. (See Picture Routing 3 attached) You can just choose the destination of your track with the output-dropdown button at the top of the Mix Window.
Or you can choose the Output in the Track Inspector. Nice and easy. And it's routed to JUST this one track then! No Send, just easy and simply routed.
The same for Midi Routing. With the inspector, you can just choose the first destination (f.e. the VEP Instance, see picture "Routing 2") and then the normal Midi Channel (All, 1-16). I can see the possibilities of the more complex options, but it would be more than amazing to have a fast option as well!

You can drag from the io button to route to other tracks, and an alt click on the button will remove the master parent send, also holding shift when dragging will let you send multiple tracks at once, though I wish this would open a shared io window at the end, and I don't know why you need to hold shift.

Quote:

8. If you deactivate a track it should really use NO resources

Yep

Quote:

9. And as a usual request :P A modern, slick, flat and dark Theme :-)

Yep, vector drawn

Travesty · 01-15-2019, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Stevie_

Let me add another feature:

(a native) retrospective record for MIDI

Yes please

Travesty · 01-15-2019, 02:19 AM

There seems to be a lot of new composer users, feels like a few years ago when the game audio community started coming over in droves, now reaper is pretty much the standard, at least in the uk

_Stevie_ · 01-15-2019, 08:29 AM

Good points Travesty!

What I also miss a lot is a bar in the MIDI editor that shows the current velocity, position and pitch of a note. I know there is mpl's interactive toolbar, but that doesn't help much here, since I use the MIDI editor undocked.
It's so tedious to always open the note properties dialog.