As a drummer I would say that both Stick Control and Syncopation are two of the most influential books a drummer could own. It's also pretty universally agreed upon amongst the drumming community.
I am curious if guitar players have something similar? I'm interested in finding the Stick Control of the guitar world.
I once did a project where I recorded guitar and bass, then put gates on them that were opened by my drums. Snare opened the gate on the guitar, and kick opened the gate on bass.
I guess I was stick controlling my guitar with that project, and the band sounded reely tight!
Joel Rothman's series of books for drummers is what taught me better stick control and syncopation. Especially his "Left Hand Solos book". That was more than 40 years ago, but still valid stuff.
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Glennbo
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I once did a project where I recorded guitar and bass, then put gates on them that were opened by my drums. Snare opened the gate on the guitar, and kick opened the gate on bass.
I guess I was stick controlling my guitar with that project, and the band sounded reely tight!
Joel Rothman's series of books for drummers is what taught me better stick control and syncopation. Especially his "Left Hand Solos book". That was more than 40 years ago, but still valid stuff.
That sounds like an awesome project! Stick Control is just one of those books that I always go back to, again and again. Apply it to feet, etc. it's a book of permutations and can apply to nearly everything.
I fool around with guitar and bass and can't really do much beyond power chords on guitar. I know the basics of theory on piano and try to apply it to guitar, I understand the interval patters on guitar, although I'm not real proficient in just letting it flow. I would like to know more and go beyond noodling around and started looking at books, but it seems that there isn't a clear winner, like what I would consider Stick Control to be in the drumming world.
That sounds like an awesome project! Stick Control is just one of those books that I always go back to, again and again. Apply it to feet, etc. it's a book of permutations and can apply to nearly everything.
Is this the "Stick Control" book you are referring to?
I fool around with guitar and bass and can't really do much beyond power chords on guitar. I know the basics of theory on piano and try to apply it to guitar, I understand the interval patters on guitar, although I'm not real proficient in just letting it flow. I would like to know more and go beyond noodling around and started looking at books, but it seems that there isn't a clear winner, like what I would consider Stick Control to be in the drumming world.
Fooling around with guitar or bass is a great way to start. In a country band I toured with in the 70s and 80s, the guy I got into our band on bass had previously been a rival drummer back in high school. He started dabbling around on guitar and was rapidly becoming as good as the guitar players we knew back then. I got in this touring band and when our original bass player quit, I called my buddy and asked him if he thought he could play bass. He borrowed some gear and was hired on the spot.
It was me as a drummer watching him become proficient on every instrument he came into contact with that inspired me to try and venture out. I now own 6 guitars, 3 basses, a banjo, a mandolin, and a uke. The guy I'm referring to, who I toured with for 7 years in the 70s/80s is in fact on the very first song on my music page. He and I have worked together since the mid 70s when I owned a Tascam 8 channel recorder and he had a Teac 3340S.
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Cool! I may have to buy a copy. I dunno that I can still read drum music though. 1975 was my very last formal lesson and the last year I played in the jazz band in high school.
I always got a laugh at the jazz charts I had to play. They would say something like "Breezy 48 measures" then have some explicitly written out pattern that hit exactly with the horns, and then back to "make some more of it up yourself X number of measures".
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Glennbo
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Cool! I may have to buy a copy. I dunno that I can still read drum music though. 1975 was my very last formal lesson and the last year I played in the jazz band in high school.
I always got a laugh at the jazz charts I had to play. They would say something like "Breezy 48 measures" then have some explicitly written out pattern that hit exactly with the horns, and then back to "make some more of it up yourself X number of measures".
Awesome, good luck! It's all on the snare and just focused mainly on sticking and every possible permutation moving around doubles and trips. It gets insane. It's also fun to take the same ideas and apply them to your feet and or between your feet and hands... the possibilities are endless. you are about to embark on an extremely frustrating yet rewarding journey! Cheers!
This has always been something worth going back to (Marty Friedman - melodic control) can be considered a bit advanced however but good to see at least once
This has always been something worth going back to (Marty Friedman - melodic control) can be considered a bit advanced however but good to see at least once
Love Marty! Rust in Peace came out around when I first started playing and watching Nick Menza used to absolutely blow my mind. I used to wear wrestling shoes to drum in because of him. Will definitely check this out. thanks!
Stick Control is just one of those books that I always go back to, again and again. Apply it to feet, etc. it's a book of permutations and can apply to nearly everything.
^Believe it, all the best drummers I know had that book. As far as Joel, I have Clap Your Hands and possibly another; good stuff.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
Awesome, good luck! It's all on the snare and just focused mainly on sticking and every possible permutation moving around doubles and trips. It gets insane. It's also fun to take the same ideas and apply them to your feet and or between your feet and hands... the possibilities are endless. you are about to embark on an extremely frustrating yet rewarding journey! Cheers!
Very cool Chip. I took years of rudimental drum lessons, and hated it, wanting to get to the playing the whole kit books, but looking back I use almost everything I was taught in the earlier days. I played in marching band and orchestra as well as the jazz band, and my folks made me take all that rudimental stuff from around 1967 to 1970 as a requirement to getting my first drum kit at 10 years old. Triple Ratamacues, flam taps, double drags, Etc.
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In terms of books which unashamedly focus on technique (rather than building repertoire), which seems to be what you're after, may I suggest the following:
1. A Modern Method For Guitar by William Leavitt (Volumes 1,2 & 3)
Honestly a guitar version of stick control would be something that makes you learn and practice...
1. All 5 pentatonic positions/scales.
2. All closed triad and dyad inversions vertically and horizontally.
3. All arpeggios of those chords/triads. (Not the neo-classical thing, just being able to know/play only the chord tones at will).
With the above you can play over any progression or changes.... Unless you mean literally and strictly coordination/technique but since we have the coordination and the pitches/harmony/melody to deal with on guitar, the above is one of the "stick control" things that should be mastered.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
In terms of books which unashamedly focus on technique (rather than building repertoire), which seems to be what you're after, may I suggest the following:
1. A Modern Method For Guitar by William Leavitt (Volumes 1,2 & 3)
2. The Advancing Guitarist by Mick Goodrick
The Advancing Guitarist - This was recommended on Adam Neely's YT Channel, and sort of what got me thinking about getting a book for guitar in the first place. Thank you.
^Believe it, all the best drummers I know had that book. As far as Joel, I have Clap Your Hands and possibly another; good stuff.
When I was living through those days of drum lessons, Joel Rothman's Rock Bible was my favorite book I went through, but many years later the left hand solos book is something I use techniques from more often. I never had Clap your hands, but I just took a look in the closet and found I still have these along with a bunch of even older rudimentary books.
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Those are sweet, clap your hands was just cool because it did such a great job at teaching reading and internalizing basic rhythmic structures; it's not even drum related per se, hence my ownership of it.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
^You are supposed to hate it - That's what makes it good and a payoff.
It certainly was, but I didn't see it at the time.
The last guy I took lessons from started with books, but then thought it better to play something and see if I could duplicate it. If I couldn't, he'd chart it out so by the end of the lesson I'd have ten or so patterns to work on. One day he asked me why I still wanted to take lessons, and I told him to get better at jazz.
The next lesson he gave me a copy of "The Mahavishnu Orchestra Inner Mounting Flame" album and booted me out for good, even though I was a regular paying customer.
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Glennbo
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Honestly a guitar version of stick control would be something that makes you learn and practice...
1. All 5 pentatonic positions/scales.
2. All closed triad and dyad inversions vertically and horizontally.
3. All arpeggios of those chords/triads. (Not the neo-classical thing, just being able to know/play only the chord tones at will).
With the above you can play over any progression or changes.... Unless you mean literally and strictly coordination/technique but since we have the coordination and the pitches/harmony/melody to deal with on guitar, the above is one of the "stick control" things that should be mastered.
This is good advice. Thank you.
I'm a drummer first and always just fooled around on guitar as a secondary instrument. I also play a little piano and bass. I love music and enjoy a challenge. I approach everything musically, in that the more I know about what everyone else is doing, the better drummer I can be.
It seems like all I would ever do with guitar is practice the major scales and then just noodle around with power chords. I've only just now started connecting the dots with the interval patterns and it was like a light bulb went off. For some reason, I had trouble visualizing the fret board the way I see the piano. I learned theory on piano but never really made the connection to guitar until very recently and it seems like a whole world opened up. It got me really excited and I thought, this guitar thing isn't really a black magic box, and maybe I can learn more about it and take it a little more seriously.
Those are sweet, clap your hands was just cool because it did such a great job at teaching reading and internalizing basic rhythmic structures; it's not even drum related per se, hence my ownership of it.
I'll have to look that one up!
The guitarist I work with, bought "Scales for Jazz Improvisation" by Dan Haerle when we were touring, and his solos on guitar really improved afterward.
This is the same guitarist playing the solos on the first song on my music page. I've been working with that dood for a cool 46 years now.
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Yes exactly, you can look up the CAGED system which is really the same thing as part of what I posted, it just assigns meaningful terms for getting around - I just had sort of figured the same thing out before I realized there was also a "system/name" many used but essentially the same thing.
The beauty of the three items I listed is that they aren't 'that' difficult to memorize, the value and harder part comes when being able to use them in real time as chords are going by. Good luck!
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It's literally just a stave and notes exercises, you just count and clap the notes. It begins as simple as possible with straight quarter notes and just gets more and more complex. It really is great for that but I'm sure you are vastly beyond that by now.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
It's literally just a stave and notes exercises, you just count and clap the notes. It begins as simple as possible with straight quarter notes and just gets more and more complex. It really is great for that but I'm sure you are vastly beyond that by now.
Still, I can prolly find a page or two of it on the net, and my interest has been piqued!
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I thought it might have a ^preview but not, I can always grab my copy and take a picture of it opened, assuming I can find it - it should be in my bookcase but I know me.
__________________ Music is what feelings sound like.
I thought it might have a ^preview but not, I can always grab my copy and take a picture of it opened, assuming I can find it - it should be in my bookcase but I know me.
Cool. Thanks! I found another site that does have a couple of the first pages. Hey, I can actually read that, but it's the super basic quarter note stuff they let you see.
Ah right, sorry, I got the title wrong (it's Fretboard Logic, not Guitar Logic).
Once you read it and do the exercises you understand why standard tuning is the way it is and it helps you navigate the fretboard more efficiently. The guy's a lousy writer but it's worth studying. Every guitar player should own both volumes.
Paul Gilbert's first video.
Vinnie Moore's first video.
Yngwie Malmsteens video ( the one where he is obviously drunk)
Ritchie Kotzen rock chops
Jason Becker - legendary guitar
George Lynch's video ( is he on valium or what?)
Frank Gambales Monster licks/speed picking
The Al Di Meola video
Iron Maidens first live album.
Gary Moore live at Montreux 1990
Whitesnake live at Donnington 1990
Scorpions W/ Uli - anything
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Fooling around with guitar or bass is a great way to start. In a country band I toured with in the 70s and 80s, the guy I got into our band on bass had previously been a rival drummer back in high school. He started dabbling around on guitar and was rapidly becoming as good as the guitar players we knew back then. I got in this touring band and when our original bass player quit, I called my buddy and asked him if he thought he could play bass. He borrowed some gear and was hired on the spot.
It was me as a drummer watching him become proficient on every instrument he came into contact with that inspired me to try and venture out. I now own 6 guitars, 3 basses, a banjo, a mandolin, and a uke. The guy I'm referring to, who I toured with for 7 years in the 70s/80s is in fact on the very first song on my music page. He and I have worked together since the mid 70s when I owned a Tascam 8 channel recorder and he had a Teac 3340S.
I still have a Teac 3340S in my studio boneyard. Still worked, last time I tried it. A fun tape machine!
For the OP:
There is a whole world of picking hand techniques beyond picking.
- slapping, strumming, clawhand finger picking, slapping, tap harmonics, artificial harmonics, pick harmonics, tapping etc.
After a certain level, one realizes the magic happens with the picking hand, more than the fretting hand.
One quick example:
Clawhand picking tutorial by Danny Gatton. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rqqbFmgOFHs&t=1538s
Don't be discouraged by watching this. His jaw-dropping speed was honed over decades. It takes time...
I still have a Teac 3340S in my studio boneyard. Still worked, last time I tried it. A fun tape machine!
Those were great machines. My guitarist buddy first bought the 3340S and we quickly figured out that we loved multi-track recording. Less than a year later I bought the Tascam 80-8 in the pic, but couldn't afford a mixer yet so I had that Tascam line mixer that's sitting on top of the tape deck.
Later I bought a Tascam Model 5 mixer and used that line mixer as a headphone feed, but less than a year after that I traded all that stuff plus a big hunk of cash for this Ampex AG440B-8 one inch machine and Carvin mixer like Frank Zappa used in his mobile recording truck. And as fate would have it, I sold that machine and mixer right before the first multi-track software for home users with PCs came out.
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1. A Modern Method For Guitar by William Leavitt (Volumes 1,2 & 3)
This is what I first thought of when I read the thread title. Bill Leavitt is a professor at the Berklee School of Music and wrote these books as the basis of Berklee's guitar curriculum and they are used by most universities/conservatories that offer a jazz program as well, so they are pretty thorough.
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Originally Posted by Xasman
2. The Advancing Guitarist by Mick Goodrick
This is another good book, but it's coming from a completely different angle.
I'll second the Fretboard Logic series, as well. It breaks down what karbomusic was saying earlier in the thread about the scales, closed chord forms, and arpeggios.
As a guitar teacher, I periodically make just about all students learn how to hand-drum a double paradiddle/Mozambique, and 3 against 4 polyrhythms since it can be very liberating for left/right hand coordination in certain contexts.
The guitar equivalent would be practicing up and down stroke/alternate picking combinations in conjunction with string crossing, multiplied by each finger. Which is somewhat an approach based on the GIT sequencing approach, of which Paul Gilbert is probably the master. I could make a book out of it but it would be as droll as some drum technique books I've seen, transcriptions of iterative variations that are not *weighted to a particular player's tendencies/weaknesses*.
On the other hand Al DiMeola had a book "Picking Techniques" that was popular in some circles, but as far as a book that tends to show up more than another it would be the ever-fash and notorious "Chord Chemistry" by Ted Greene.
If you're after technique, that will just come with time. Think of some advanced guitar players/solos and find some tabs to get you started.
The reality is the guitar is the most difficult instrument to master due to memorization of fingerings and such; if you wish to truly be able to sight-read.
But, pull up a Van Halen song, even as a novice and just try. Technique comes with time.
Screw the books. Go play your favorites with tabs to get comfortable on guitar.
Those were great machines. My guitarist buddy first bought the 3340S and we quickly figured out that we loved multi-track recording. Less than a year later I bought the Tascam 80-8 in the pic, but couldn't afford a mixer yet so I had that Tascam line mixer that's sitting on top of the tape deck.
Later I bought a Tascam Model 5 mixer and used that line mixer as a headphone feed, but less than a year after that I traded all that stuff plus a big hunk of cash for this Ampex AG440B-8 one inch machine and Carvin mixer like Frank Zappa used in his mobile recording truck. And as fate would have it, I sold that machine and mixer right before the first multi-track software for home users with PCs came out.
I wore out several Tascam decks back in the day. 3440, 80-8, portastudio, and a 388 to name but a few. Had a few of their mixers as well. Changed my life. Can't say I've ever owned any of their digital stuff tho. Went str8 from reel to Roland vs880's and then computer based DAWs, with very early versions of Cakewalk, then Pro-tools, Sonar, Cubase, Nuendo, and few oddballs before finally settling on Reaper.
It's amazing how far things have come. It would have cost literally millions back in the day for the power available on a desktop budget today.
Okay, so that was a little off-topic, sorry about that. Just reminiscing and realizing how freaking old I am
I wore out several Tascam decks back in the day. 3440, 80-8, portastudio, and a 388 to name but a few. Had a few of their mixers as well. Changed my life. Can't say I've ever owned any of their digital stuff tho. Went str8 from reel to Roland vs880's and then computer based DAWs, with very early versions of Cakewalk, then Pro-tools, Sonar, Cubase, Nuendo, and few oddballs before finally settling on Reaper.
The first experience I had with multi-tracking was with a home stereo Ampex reel-to-reel my dad had. One day while messing with it and a mic I figured out I could do ping-pong recording adding a new part each time. You could get about 4 parts before the noise build up obscured the oldest part.
The very last analog tape machine I had was a Tascam 234 rack mount unit that ran 3 3/4 IPS, and I'd stripe track four with clock that my drum machine could slave to so my midi sequencing software (Studio One for C64) would play in sync with the three analog tape tracks remaining. Soon after that it was Cakewalk Pro Audio, Sonar, and then REAPER.
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It's amazing how far things have come. It would have cost literally millions back in the day for the power available on a desktop budget today.
Okay, so that was a little off-topic, sorry about that. Just reminiscing and realizing how freaking old I am
I'm interested in seeing other perspectives on playing guitar. Although I own and play a lot of guitars and basses, I have no freeking idea what chords or keys I'm playing. Never learned the basics and just started jamming on them by ear only. When I've had people in my studio to add solos they'll ask "what key is this?", and I'll laugh and blurt out something like "it's in Rrrr the pirate key" coz I have no idea!
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Glennbo
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Stick Control of guitar books?
Linear Mode
