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08-11-2018, 11:57 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,293
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MPE?
When will Reaper support this?
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08-11-2018, 12:19 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Technically it already does. It's just MIDI channels used differently...
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08-11-2018, 12:19 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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08-11-2018, 03:18 PM
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#4
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Playing MPE instruments and recording MPE data is pretty much flawless in Reaper. Editing of velocities (even note-off for the "Lift"), channel pressure and CC74 ("Slide") is fine if you're happy with Reaper's CC lane editing in general. It would be neat to have "Show Channel number on notes", in case you want to add a note. Because you need to know which channel is not in use at the target time area to choose a free one for the extra note, so you can make it articulate independently.
Editing pitch bend ("Glide") within the default MPE range of 48 semitones is practically impossible, though. First obviously because the value changes are tiny in Reaper's pitch bend lane, but also because there is no grid to indicate semitones. Correct a pitch glide that has gone a bit flat? I don't even try that in current Reaper.
Here is a thread with some more thoughts about the pitch bend problem and some pics: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=177868
Last edited by gofer; 08-11-2018 at 03:29 PM.
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08-11-2018, 05:42 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
It would be neat to have "Show Channel number on notes", in case you want to add a note. Because you need to know which channel is not in use at the target time area to choose a free one for the extra note, so you can make it articulate independently.
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View -> Color notes by --> Channel?
Alternatively, I'm pretty sure a script could easily handle "Set active channel to the first available channel at this position".
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08-12-2018, 02:12 AM
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#6
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Thanks, Lokasenna. Event colors by channel are helpful but at least for me don"t quite kick it. It"s not easy to come up with 16 colors that are all individually discernable. And then you still need to memorize their number, so you can act accordingly. I used to think my channel colors are chosen pretty well in that respect but in practice, it turns out I misinterpret them anyway. As shown in the video you linked to, I have to keep the event's properties dialog open most of the time.
Add-a-note is not the only situation where channel info is needed. Another one would be when you want to add CC events to an existing note. I agree that a bunch of scripts could be designed to be really helpful with MPE. Yet again, "view channel numbers on notes" seems to be the most upfront solution. Unobtrusive, intuitive, ready to use for everybody in stock Reaper and possibly finds its use in non-MPE situations as well. Also, the code seems to be basically already there (he said while he has no idea about actual Reaper code). I think it's a reasonable request.
For sure someone could also come up with nifty scripts providing a workable solution for the pitch bend problem. But I'd prefer Reaper to have what's necessary to edit MPE data on board as it ships.
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03-12-2019, 10:30 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 182
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Does anyone know if this is going to be updated in the next version? I have been using MPE in bitwig and it is incredibly straight forward. Drawing bends on the individual notes is the way to implement this. Tracktion already has a version of this too, though bitwigs implementation is brilliant.
Looks like a bit of a headache in Reaper.
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03-12-2019, 10:32 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Nobody really knows what the "next version" brings... Anyone's guess is as good as none
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03-12-2019, 10:38 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 182
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Fair enough! I will wait and see then. As i understand it, Reaper updates don't roll out like other DAWs? With less emphasis placed on singluar big updates and more of a gradual roll out?
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03-12-2019, 10:42 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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The release frequency is typically anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months, sometimes with fancy stuff and sometimes just little bug fixes.
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03-12-2019, 03:34 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
The release frequency is typically anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months, sometimes with fancy stuff and sometimes just little bug fixes.
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In my couple of weeks of use i have already had multiple updates.
I am starting to see why so many people are fanatic about Reaper. It has a great ethos, too.
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03-12-2019, 04:36 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Carlyon
Drawing bends on the individual notes is the way to implement this.
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Oh man I would love that.
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03-12-2019, 07:45 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dex
Oh man I would love that.
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It really is so good in Bitwig. It makes it something you actually want to use! It feels musical also. That is definitely one thing Bitwig gets right
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03-17-2019, 01:10 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 90
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Regarding 48-range pitch, Bitwig has really cool approach for this. No more clunky CC lane, see exact pitch note bends to.
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03-17-2019, 06:18 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtr0q
Regarding 48-range pitch,
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In fact I suppose that the +/- 48 semitone setting for the full Pitch Bend range is not married to MPE, but a definition done by the Roli (e.g Rise and Equator default to that).
But you are right. I also did not find an easy way to deal with that in the Reaper Midi editor.
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 03-21-2019 at 12:51 PM.
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03-21-2019, 09:51 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtr0q
Regarding 48-range pitch, Bitwig has really cool approach for this. No more clunky CC lane, see exact pitch note bends to.
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Absolutely love this in bitwig. Incredibly expressive.
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01-22-2020, 11:26 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
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Any developments on this?
It would be as clean as a "Set MIDI channel to last touched note's channel" script/feature to have a Very close to good system in Reaper.
Currently it's pretty brutal - if you want to edit the CC of an existing note you have to first figure out what channel it's on, switch to it, make your change, etc. A simple "last touched" option would be perfect.
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01-22-2020, 01:40 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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No developments on this whatsoever.
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01-23-2020, 10:46 PM
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#19
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop
Any developments on this?
It would be as clean as a "Set MIDI channel to last touched note's channel" script/feature to have a Very close to good system in Reaper.
Currently it's pretty brutal - if you want to edit the CC of an existing note you have to first figure out what channel it's on, switch to it, make your change, etc. A simple "last touched" option would be perfect.
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Look for Juliansader’s script “js_Option - Selecting single note or CC in active take sets channel for new events. lua”, available in Reapack. It runs as deferred script in the background when enabled and does the trick. I’d go mad without it.
For some reason I failed so far trying to have it enabled by default in new projects, but I think that’s me doing something wrong.
Editing pitch bend is still the same problem, there is currently no reasonable way to go about it in Reaper. Which is a shame, because otherwise Reaper was ready for MPE just like so.
Last edited by gofer; 01-23-2020 at 11:04 PM.
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01-24-2020, 10:23 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
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Amazing man thank you, this pretty much takes care of it!
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01-26-2020, 12:10 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer
Look for Juliansader’s script “js_Option - Selecting single note or CC in active take sets channel for new events. lua”, available in Reapack. It runs as deferred script in the background when enabled and does the trick. I’d go mad without it.
For some reason I failed so far trying to have it enabled by default in new projects, but I think that’s me doing something wrong.
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Like all user scripts (?), it's automatically disabled every time you reload the project. You have to run it manually each time you load a new project or reload a project. I set up a button to do it in my midi editor.
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01-26-2020, 05:44 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,790
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Or you could set it as project startup action with SWS, I think there's an action like that there.
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01-26-2020, 04:35 PM
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#23
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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Yeah, that’s what I tried, but it doesn’t work reliably. This particular one, I mean. The other actions in my startup combo work fine.
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04-05-2021, 11:27 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
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Any movement on this 15 months later?
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04-05-2021, 11:28 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtr0q
Regarding 48-range pitch, Bitwig has really cool approach for this. No more clunky CC lane, see exact pitch note bends to.
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Look at this makes me feel joy inside. Truly.
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04-05-2021, 11:32 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
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Am I alone in thinking it's absurd to not have controllable snapping in the pitch lane? Or all lanes for that matter, but especially in a dimension that is by definition "stepped"?
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04-06-2021, 07:00 AM
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#27
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-blänk-
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,359
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With a bend range of +-48 semitones it's more a problem with the size. At that range, semitones are just a few pixels apart in a pitchbend lane (depending on screen resolution and height of the lane of course). IMO, the way Bitwig does it is the best way to go. What you see is what you get. Plus you can zoom in vertically to the range in question.
Still, a snap feature would be a helpful step in the right direction, as it would need to include the possibility to tell Reaper which pitchbend range is meant by 0-16383 on a given track.
Btw, ferropop, remember your thread https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=2298129? You asked for scripts to raise/lower pitchbend events by/to semitones which you can find in my reply over there. You probably missed them because I found your thread a month after it was posted.
Last edited by gofer; 04-06-2021 at 07:10 AM.
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09-13-2022, 08:22 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 39
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Is it possible to set the pitch bend range to something smaller in the synth and controller so that it records a more narrow lane? I haven't tried it yet. Just wondering.
If not, then isn't this a relatively easy fix for Cockos?
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09-13-2022, 10:43 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
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If the pitch bend range of a plugin is not settable to a desired ratio, maybe Reapack -> MidiPitchBendFactor might help,
-Michael
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09-14-2022, 01:26 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop
Look at this makes me feel joy inside. Truly.
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I'd love this in Reaper!
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09-14-2022, 01:27 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bywaterandblood
Is it possible to set the pitch bend range to something smaller in the synth and controller so that it records a more narrow lane? I haven't tried it yet. Just wondering.
If not, then isn't this a relatively easy fix for Cockos?
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Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this wouldn't help with Roli users who have their pitchbend set to +/-48 would it?
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09-14-2022, 02:52 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mozart999uk
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, this wouldn't help with Roli users who have their pitchbend set to +/-48 would it?
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I usually set mine to 12 or 24. I'll have to try it out when I have some time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
If the pitch bend range of a plugin is not settable to a desired ratio, maybe Reapack -> MidiPitchBendFactor might help,
-Michael
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I'll check this out and reply back here if it works.
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09-17-2022, 10:35 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 39
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Nope. Doesn't work. Everyone else is right. Pitch is straight up uneditable. We really should be able to zoom CC lanes like you can MIDI. Just increasing its height isn't near enough.
Last edited by bywaterandblood; 09-17-2022 at 10:46 PM.
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09-17-2022, 10:50 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
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(Usually) Pitch is not a CC.
Normal CC is not usable for pitch, as it only features 7 Bit resolution.
HR CC (14 Bit) might be used (and converted to Pitchbend in realtime).
And of course you can pseudo-Zoom the Pitch editing by using Reapack -> MidiPitchBendFactor. You will type in a value lower than 1.0 in the "Factor" field to scale down the pitchbend range.
-Michael
Last edited by mschnell; 09-17-2022 at 10:59 PM.
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09-18-2022, 12:08 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bywaterandblood
Nope. Doesn't work. Everyone else is right. Pitch is straight up uneditable. We really should be able to zoom CC lanes like you can MIDI. Just increasing its height isn't near enough.
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If there was a connection between Arrange View and MIDI Editor for CCs, everything's already built into Arrange View to do the zoom you're talking about.
I know it's not directly related, but just an example of how deeply the MIDI oddities go, and how much more refined and unified things would feel if a couple of fundamental gaps were bridged.
But yeah, ...if you copy your CCs up to ReaControlMIDI then you can (in a very unnecessarily complex way) use Razor Edits to tilt/stretch/compress/expand and use all the normal Zoom tools to get more accurate.
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09-18-2022, 06:05 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
(Usually) Pitch is not a CC.
Normal CC is not usable for pitch, as it only features 7 Bit resolution.
HR CC (14 Bit) might be used (and converted to Pitchbend in realtime).
And of course you can pseudo-Zoom the Pitch editing by using Reapack -> MidiPitchBendFactor. You will type in a value lower than 1.0 in the "Factor" field to scale down the pitchbend range.
-Michael
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OK, so I have a track set up with Roli Studio on it and an MPE sound selected. I put "MIDI Pitch Bend Factor" after the plugin with a .25 factor and it doesn't appear to work. If I put it before it makes Roli Studio play all wonky. What am I doing wrong?
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09-18-2022, 10:47 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bywaterandblood
it doesn't appear to work.
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You can put a Midi logger (e.g. ReaControlMidi) before and after to see, what it does.
-Michael
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