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10-01-2009, 11:08 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
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JS midi_note_filter works, but how can I...
Hi.
I'm using the excellent JS "midi_note_filter" on tracks 1 and 2 in my project to have the lower part of my MIDI keyboard control a synth bass on track 1, and at the same time the upper part of my board is controlling a synth bell sound on track 2(both virtual synths).
I have one issue along these lines that some of you dear fellow users might help me resolve: I understand that the setup here now works this way:
The MIDI notes arrive on the tracks as the clips are being recorded. From there, they are passed to the JS FX "midi_note_filter" which filters the notes. However, on BOTH tracks in the arrangement window the SAME notes arrive before they could possibly be filtered by the FX chains because the tracks in the arranger get the MIDI notes PRIOR TO THE FX CHAIN.
But I want the note filtering to take place BEFORE the MIDI notes are arriving on the arranger track. Thus, I might avoid the redundant notes that appear in the arranger BEFORE they reach the FX chains to be filtered...I thus only want to see those notes in the arrangement that actually do also pass through the respective note filters in the respective FX chains.
Hope this is not too difficult...but hey, many of you are really capable reaperites...
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10-01-2009, 11:17 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,144
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you must be kidding man
that's for the FXs are, to process data
you want them to arrive filtered ?
don't play them
or use some filter with virtual MIDI cable outside reaper
but why do you want them to arrive filtered and also like to use the JS plug ?
EDIT: btw on my signature there is one JS that can filter and much more.
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10-01-2009, 11:28 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsup
you must be kidding man
that's for the FXs are, to process data
you want them to arrive filtered ?
don't play them
or use some filter with virtual MIDI cable outside reaper
but why do you want them to arrive filtered and also like to use the JS plug ?
EDIT: btw on my signature there is one JS that can filter and much more.
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Hey Whatsup, I knew I'd be misunderstood...English is my 2nd language only...but I'll look into your plugins...
I am not kidding...I meant that the MIDI notes should be received on the tracks like they would from a keyboard with split function...unfortunately I don't own such a one...
Or put differently, the filtering should take place at the pre-arrange stage, before they reach my respective plugin chains...
And of course, then I'd no longer need to try to sort the note business at the FX chain stage...
Hope this sounds clearer now...please I need some more comments...
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10-01-2009, 11:36 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderwaterSunlight
Hey Whatsup, I knew I'd be misunderstood...English is my 2nd language only...but I'll look into your plugins...
I am not kidding...I meant that the MIDI notes should be received on the tracks like they would from a keyboard with split function...unfortunately I don't own such a one...
Or put differently, the filtering should take place at the pre-arrange stage, before they reach my respective plugin chains...
And of course, then I'd no longer need to try to sort the note business at the FX chain stage...
Hope this sounds clearer now...please I need some more comments...
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so i understand that your wish is not to use plugin , you want them to be filtered some how,
i'm sorry, i don't know of a way to do that, except of what i already said above.
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10-01-2009, 11:50 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatsup
so i understand that your wish is not to use plugin , you want them to be filtered some how,
i'm sorry, i don't know of a way to do that, except of what i already said above.
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I don't mind if there were a plugin that could do the filtering I want...I am not disinclined to use whatsoever works.
The issue is that now I get two clips per note in the arranger (one for the bass track and one for the bell track), so only the later filtering in the FX chains causes the splitting of lower keyboard notes ->bass and upper keyboard notes ->bell. But I still get those redundant notes in the arranger...that obstructs my workflow quite some...
I guess what I need is an addition in the ReaControlMIDI menu to make possible the note filtering BEFORE the track/arranger stage, thus PRIOR TO its reaching the FX chain stage...
I guess you guys are completely confused by now...or are you ?
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10-01-2009, 01:15 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,144
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i think to better understand you, you should post here your project,
that include the JS plug, maybe it'll help.
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10-01-2009, 01:25 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,630
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Just a guess, sounds like you want to play a left hand and right hand part and have each enter Reaper on a different MIDI channel or track. This might be possible at the hardware end if you can assign a split to a midi channel. Otherwise, I don't see how it is possible.
That doesn't mean I'm an expert and that there isn't an answer... if I've correctly interpreted your recording issue.
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10-01-2009, 01:32 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,144
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it can be as you said by the hardware
and very easily by software with a filter plug
but not on the same track, because what filtered , is filtered for the whole chain,
so he can route one track to another but very important pre-fx
the default routing is post fx (maybe this is his problem),
put one filter on each track, and play.
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10-02-2009, 12:14 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
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OK, one more attempt at explaining what I want.
I guess many other users would also welcome a solution to my problem...
Perhaps there is still a way to achieve what I need without using virtual MIDI ports and whatnot...
To begin with, there are two tracks.
One we'll call Bass (track 1) and the other we will call Bell (track 2).
I have my Edirol 5 oct. MIDI keyboard connected to my computer's MIDI/audio interface (RME 9632). I intend to trigger the Bass with note numbers 36-60 and the Bell with notes 61 to 84.
Now when I press for example note number 48, MIDI arrives at the Bass track AND the Bell track EVEN when in both chains I have set the respective MIDI note filter Plugins correctly. The red MIDI dots on tracks 1 and 2 indicate that BOTH tracks receive MIDI from my keyboard.
I want that if I press e.g. note number 40, only the track 1 (Bass) receives MIDI, and if I, say, press note 72, only track2 (Bell) receives MIDI.
And I already tested every possible routing and "pre/post-FX" settings...
Is what I desire not possible within Reaper ?
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10-02-2009, 12:57 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderwaterSunlight
OK, one more attempt at explaining what I want.
I guess many other users would also welcome a solution to my problem...
Perhaps there is still a way to achieve what I need without using virtual MIDI ports and whatnot...
To begin with, there are two tracks.
One we'll call Bass (track 1) and the other we will call Bell (track 2).
I have my Edirol 5 oct. MIDI keyboard connected to my computer's MIDI/audio interface (RME 9632). I intend to trigger the Bass with note numbers 36-60 and the Bell with notes 61 to 84.
Now when I press for example note number 48, MIDI arrives at the Bass track AND the Bell track EVEN when in both chains I have set the respective MIDI note filter Plugins correctly. The red MIDI dots on tracks 1 and 2 indicate that BOTH tracks receive MIDI from my keyboard.
I want that if I press e.g. note number 40, only the track 1 (Bass) receives MIDI, and if I, say, press note 72, only track2 (Bell) receives MIDI.
And I already tested every possible routing and "pre/post-FX" settings...
Is what I desire not possible within Reaper ?
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i try later to post here an example project, that you can with your MIDI
keyboard to play as you described.
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10-02-2009, 01:01 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
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That would be most helpful...I am looking forward to it.
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10-02-2009, 01:08 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 197
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If you want to record the processed midi data only, then set record output (MIDI) instead of input (right-click the arm record button).
What would be nice is to have some way to tell reaper when the midi should be recorded in the fx chain.
example:
midi plug 1
midi plug 2
[track rec]
midi plug 3
midi plug 4
vsti
vst fx
....
In this case midi plugs 1 and 2 would behave as an input processor (only live midi would be processed) and on playback, these 2 plugs would be bypassed.
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10-02-2009, 01:27 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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You could try this:
-- disable your synths/samplers so you just have JS "midi_note_filter" enabled on each track
-- change the Record mode to "Record (Output) MIDI"
Or something like this:
-- remove your synths/samplers so you just have JS "midi_note_filter" enabled on each track
-- change the Record mode to "Record (Output) MIDI"
-- create 2 new tracks, add the synth/sampler to them
-- Send the "MIDI" tracks to their "audio" tracks
[img]http://img21.**************/img21/6757/r311dskeyboardsplit01.png[/img]
Seee the attached.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
Last edited by DarkStar; 10-02-2009 at 01:29 AM.
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10-02-2009, 01:32 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
You could try this:
-- disable your synths/samplers so you just have JS "midi_note_filter" enabled on each track
-- change the Record mode to "Record (Output) MIDI"
[..]
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Why disabling the synths ???
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10-02-2009, 01:38 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,677
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So that the track output is MIDI and can be recorded. If the synths are enabled there is no MIDI output from the tracks, only the generated audio.
__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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10-02-2009, 01:49 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,144
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here is the project
when on load you get the error message for missing FXs, don't worry,
it just additional FXs to demonstrate my plugs,
but it will work without them also.
Quote:
MIDI arrives at the Bass track AND the Bell track EVEN when in both chains I have set the respective MIDI note filter Plugins correctly
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MIDI events must get to both tracks, for your task to work,
then the filters on each track make the filtering, so each synth,
will get the appropriate filtered notes only.
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10-02-2009, 01:50 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
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DarkStar, I tested your solution with my Bass and Bell synths.
It works as you outlined.
However, this solution is a bit cumbersome (2 tracks for each keyboard split zone). Reminds me of my old Sonar LE 4 which had to have 1 MIDI and 1 audio track for each softsynth.
I might as well use my workaround of manually deleting the unwanted recorded notes in the MIDI editor.
But thanks to you anyway, you seem to know Reaper well.
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10-02-2009, 01:52 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
So that the track output is MIDI and can be recorded. If the synths are enabled there is no MIDI output from the tracks, only the generated audio.
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it depends on the synth, but maybe most of the synths eats MIDI
ReaSynth doesn't.
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10-02-2009, 02:20 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,144
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i posted you the project 2-3 posts above,
does it work for you ?
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10-02-2009, 02:25 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar
So that the track output is MIDI and can be recorded. If the synths are enabled there is no MIDI output from the tracks, only the generated audio.
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Then uncheck "Allow VST to send/modify MIDI" (right click I/O button)
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10-02-2009, 02:27 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
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Thanks also to you Whatsup.
I did test your RPP as well.
Both instruments played the right sounds whereas only track 1 had all the notes (that's the way your routing scheme works in this case). I wanted to have the right notes on both respective tracks.
This purpose is accomplished by DarkStar's RPP, albeit that is a bit more cumbersome (features 2 tracks for each "split zone").
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10-02-2009, 03:28 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderwaterSunlight
Thanks also to you Whatsup.
I did test your RPP as well.
Both instruments played the right sounds whereas only track 1 had all the notes (that's the way your routing scheme works in this case). I wanted to have the right notes on both respective tracks.
This purpose is accomplished by DarkStar's RPP, albeit that is a bit more cumbersome (features 2 tracks for each "split zone").
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it might be my english , because i don't understand what that mean exactly
Quote:
right notes on both respective tracks
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but anyway i'm glad you've sorted something.
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10-02-2009, 06:51 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Location
Posts: 5,559
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Hi,
Maybe this is an alternative:
http://www.thepiz.org/dl/?p=vst
There is a set of downloadable MIDI-plugins (amongst other "useful" stuff),
especially a plugin called "midiKeySplit" might help.
-Data
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10-02-2009, 08:10 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderwaterSunlight
Thanks also to you Whatsup.
I did test your RPP as well.
Both instruments played the right sounds whereas only track 1 had all the notes (that's the way your routing scheme works in this case). I wanted to have the right notes on both respective tracks.
This purpose is accomplished by DarkStar's RPP, albeit that is a bit more cumbersome (features 2 tracks for each "split zone").
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Why 2*2 tracks ????
You need only 2 !!!
On each track,
a) Set recording to Record Output -> Record Output (MIDI)
b) Now for each VSTi or VST that comes AFTER the "split note js plug", RIGHT-click on the I/O BUTTON (the one next to the Param button) and make sure to UNCHECK "Allow VST to send/modify MIDI".
That's only 2 tracks, and each will only record it's part, low key for one and hi keys for the other.
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10-02-2009, 08:43 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
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Sounds good to have only 2 Tracks for what I intend.
Will try it tonight.
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10-02-2009, 09:18 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
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MBNCP I tried your suggestion...but...
I followed through correctly. But:
The result: I only get recorded notes on the track that holds the "lower" (Bass) sound...the bell track doesn't get notes...
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10-02-2009, 10:05 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 197
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Just tried again using hypersonic2 (I know it doesn't pass midi) and it works fine, nice pad on the left side and an amazing lead on the right side. First track recorded only the chords and the second one only the lead notes.
Make sure that both tracks are/have:
Midi input is set correctly (port, channel, map input channel to..)
record enabled is on
record mode to Output MIDI is set
each midi note filter set correctly (ex: 0-59 for one and 60-127 for the second)
All VSTi and VST have "Allow VST to send/modify MIDI" UN-checked.
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10-02-2009, 10:17 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
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S U C C E S S !!!!!!
I checked again, and lo and behold:
On the track 2 "bell" I had a delay VST at the end of its chain which was allowed to send/modify MIDI !
When I unchecked that, SUCCESS came !
Now I ONLY have the actual bass notes on track 1 and ONLY the bell notes on track 2.
Thank you very much. Things are sorted fine now.
Hope this thread will allow more users to perform virtual SPLIT operations even when no splittable MIDI keyboard is available...and that without redundant/double notes across the two target tracks...
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10-02-2009, 10:36 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 197
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Glad it works, things are sometimes a little complicated in reaper, but there's almost always a way.
Now, just be aware that the recorded data will still make it thru your keyboard splitter plug. This could become a problem if you decided to transpose the notes in the piano roll. If they get outside the range they will be muted.
It may be a good idea to disable the midi plug after recording to avoid this kind of troubles.
Would be nice to let Reaper know that some MIDI plugs should be processed only on live midi and their output recorded to the track.
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