Cubase "Parts" feature in Reaper : Item Blocks !

[vanhaze]

I am developing a workflow in Reaper, simulating Cubase's great "Parts" feature:

Item Blocks are like containers for audio/midi items.
Great feature for people who make their beats with audio items in Arrange view for example.

Item Blocks will be able to be made of selected items not only on one track but multiple tracks also.

The core functionality behind this workflow are Folder/Child Tracks and Item Groups.

Check out my first vid, introducing Item Blocks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SPDjP5vYrw

What i show you in this vid is not just the simple use of the Item Groups feature in Reaper.
This goes way further. (Item Groups feature has it's many shortcomings i experienced and i had to solve these shortcomings in the Item Blocks creation workflow).

Warm Regards.

[enroe]

Originally Posted by vanhaze

I am developing a workflow in Reaper, simulating Cubase's great "Parts" feature

Haha,

these "great Parts" are a base feature for every DAW, really
every DAW, and it is very basic! The first Protools in the
Nineties had it. The first Logic Audio in 1995 had it. The
first Cubase VST had it, also Cubase SX in 2001 etc.

So it is very basic, only in Reaper it is impossible to
work in a modular way (I don't want to say anything negative
about Reaper, but this one is really missing).

Originally Posted by vanhaze

Check out my first vid, introducing Item Blocks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SPDjP5vYrw
... i had to solve these shortcomings in the Item Blocks creation workflow.

Wooah, this is an amazing work! I suppose SWS-extensions
and more is needed for your script? Nevertheless - it looks
quite fantastic!

[vanhaze]

Thank you !

For the Custom Actions i made for the "Item Blocks" workflow,
you indeed need the SWS Extensions installed.
Also, the me2beats ReaPack Repository is needed.
Here is the Repository URL from me2beats:
https://github.com/me2beats/reapack/...ster/index.xml

Basically (up till this phase of development of Item Blocks), i use these Custom Actons:

a) ITEM BLOCK - Create from selected Items across Tracks.
b) ITEM BLOCK - Duplicate
c) ITEM BLOCK - Re-Lock
d) ITEM BLOCK - Split
e) Action: Item grouping: Remove items from group

b) > Makes a duplicate of the selected Item Block, right after the selected Item Block.
This duplication behavoir can be further extended (for example: duplicate snapped to Grid, duplicate to Edit Cursor etc)
Furthermore, currently the Duplicate is independant of the original Item Block, but this can be programmed to be changed to a dependant ("pooled") Item Block.
d) > The Split action makes 2 indepedant Item Blocks but this can be programmed to be changed to 2 dependant ("pooled") Item Blocks
e) > Is just for "unlocking" an Item Block, so you can change the item content of the Item Block (ie: delete items, move items, add items, split items et etc)
And then use c) to "Re-lock" the Item Block again.

It's to soon to "release" these made Custom Actions: way more testing and further additional features have to be done.
A real pain in the b*tt will be succesfully extending the Item Blocks functionality to incorporate also automation items / envelopes, besides normal items
when creating an Item Block.

I will do my best and i keep you all posted !

[vanhaze]

I just made a second video regarding the development of "ITEM BLOCKS":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mHZqhkc55I&t=2s

In this vid, i show you 2 important features:

a) Creating an ITEM BLOCK from items which can be on multiple (non contiguous) tracks
b) Duplicate a selected ITEM BLOCK to mouse position; the start of the duplicated ITEM BLOCK will be snapped to the mouse nearest pointed Gridline.

EDIT:

Teaser 3 video now on Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm6Qe-RNq3U

Showing the creation of "GLOBAL ITEM BLOCKS"
Showing ITEM BLOCK - trim left edge or right edge to Edit Cursor.

To do (among other stuff):
Incorporation of envelopes/automation items in ITEM BLOCKS.

Warm Regards.

[hopi]

Hi Van... nice work! and this looks like it will be very useful.

Do I assume correctly there is a way to rename the blocks? Like say you split MY BLOCK 01, can we change the name to MB 01A and MB 01B ???

How do we get your actions???

I can see where this is going to suck up it's own floating TB and likely will deserve it's own set of custom icons...

[vanhaze]

Do I assume correctly there is a way to rename the blocks? Like say you split MY BLOCK 01, can we change the name to MB 01A and MB 01B ???

Yes, possible !

How do we get your actions???

Not put available yet.. i have to do more testing ..

I can see where this is going to suck up it's own floating TB and likely will deserve it's own set of custom icons..

Yup, thats very correct
I am thinking about making a dedicated contextual Toolbar with only all ITEM BLOCK
related Actions in this Toolbar, which can be popped up at mouse position so easy
to reach to Toolbar buttons.

Thing is, i have never made a contextual Toolbar, have to dig into it abit howto.

[Chrome Gadget]

Epic!

Tho it doesn't look like you have pooling ? Making patterns and modifying one modifies all of them you know ?

[vanhaze]

Working on that ...

EDIT: Come to think it ..
I am now slowly realizing that the concept of "Pooling" is only valid for MIDI items and for Automation Items, not doesn't work for Item GROUPS
(on which the whole concept of ITEM BLOCKS is based on).

Yikes, this is problaby gonna be a big bummer for most of you, who want to have pooled ITEM BLOCKS.
Sorry i am only realizing this now ..

I am afraid that Cockos is the only one that can make this happen, (if they want to) in a native way, in Reaper...
If the most of you will hate the lack of pooling ITEM BLOCKS (which i can fully understand), i think i am gonna drop further development.

[mpl]

It can be much easier if one can extract/push stuff into subproject (and use it as pooled item), but this currently doesn`t seem to work: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1880347

[vanhaze]

Too bad..
Thanks for the info mpl !

[Chrome Gadget]

Still epic

[Chrome Gadget]

Wouldn't it be doable to have overlapping audio clips over pooled midi items be replicated for all instances of said midi items ? ( <-CPU 102% 95°C )

That way you create a midi clip, drop some audio items on it and these items would move along the midi item ? And when you copy the midi item, it would copy the audio items and place them the same way relative to midi item position ?

Edit: I'm currently looking at the scripting documentation and will try to find a way. Never scripted for reaper tho so I may fail horribly.

[Chrome Gadget]

I discovered something yesterday, made a gif. It looks like some functionnality has already been implemented toward items pooling but it is incomplete.

Notice how the midi items gets unpooled as they are converted to audio items.

[vanhaze]

Thank you !

However, this is only half the story regarding true pooling i am afraid.
You are showing the concept of "replacing with other sounds", which is reflected in other Items.

But I think. with the concept of Item Containers, people want the ability to have these Item Containers to be pooled for editing purposes.

Meaning:

-You "unlock" an Item Container. (an Item Container holds multiple Items).
- Then you make edits (splits/trims/moves/deletions/adds) to the items inside the Item
Container.
- Now, a pooled Item Container will "reflect" all these changes that you made in the "original" Item Container.

If the Group Items feature in Reaper could only be overhauled/improved so that a ITEM GROUP would be behave like a pooled ITEM GROUP, then i think we would be on a fascinating trip to a true Item Containers concept.

[hopi]

Originally Posted by vanhaze

Do I assume correctly there is a way to rename the blocks? Like say you split MY BLOCK 01, can we change the name to MB 01A and MB 01B ???

Yes, possible !

How do we get your actions???

Not put available yet.. i have to do more testing ..

I can see where this is going to suck up it's own floating TB and likely will deserve it's own set of custom icons..

Yup, thats very correct
I am thinking about making a dedicated contextual Toolbar with only all ITEM BLOCK
related Actions in this Toolbar, which can be popped up at mouse position so easy
to reach to Toolbar buttons.

Thing is, i have never made a contextual Toolbar, have to dig into it abit howto.

well I see you stopping work on this because of not being able to properly pool the containers... [blocks]

I think that is too bad and that you could\should release what you have created even without pooling. After all we do have delete and also copy\paste so IMHO the blocks are still very useful. Not perfect but still...

And, perhaps as people use them it will encourage the DEV's to make something like them natively... ya think?

[vanhaze]

Hey Hopi !

I had a good night sleep about it and i decided to continue to work on ITEM BLOCKS
and try to make the very best of the concept.

I received alot of reactions from people finding it quite stunning already in its current state of development, so that is very motivating

I did some testing with more than 1 ITEM BLOCK in a Reaper Project (an ITEM BLOCK containing multiple items on multiple tracks) and i fixed a big bug that i encountered.

Furthermore, i am testing with Automation Items contained in GLOBAL ITEM BLOCKS.
There appears some strangeness in dealing with Automation Items in this type of ITEM BLOCK regarding moving the ITEM BLOCK and duplicating, but i assume i can work my way around the issue.

So, stay tuned !

[hopi]

I will... and may I direct your attention briefly to that other thread about the rendering actions? see my last post there plz..

[vanhaze]

Could u plz post the link to your post ?
Sorry, tired ..

[hopi]

Originally Posted by vanhaze

Could u plz post the link to your post ?
Sorry, tired ..

I will when I find it but damnit I've lost it myself now....

[vanhaze]

LOL

But I found it !
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...3&postcount=20


Thanks Van... the fixed versions work just fine and dandy... EXCEPT they do not mute the original track or item... It should right?

EDIT: darn just ran them both again and now they do mute the original track... however, would it not be better if they did not mute the track itself but only muted the selected item[s] that get rendered? ...so if there are other not rendered items on that track they would still play?

That's a good one hopi, lemme reprogram the Custom Actions now :0)

[hopi]

man I'm glad someone has a better head on than me... hahaha

...and great if you can deal with that mute item idea

[Chrome Gadget]

Hello guys

Originally Posted by vanhaze

You are showing the concept of "replacing with other sounds", which is reflected in other Items.

Yes indeed. But I mostly wanted to show the weirdness of this. I mean, the whole item pooling stuff and grouping looks half finished.

I'm glad you are continuing the project it is looking really cool already, and I will surely use it

[vanhaze]

Originally Posted by hopi

man I'm glad someone has a better head on than me... hahaha

...and great if you can deal with that mute item idea

Here you go hopi:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7zd3qmvdno...eyMap.zip?dl=0

The muting of original selected item(s) should work now. (i tested).
I did, again some further adjustments in the programming of the 2 Custom Actions.
Which results that the new created Track, where the rendered item(s) are on, is now above the Original Track, instead of under it.

I hope you don't mind ..

Warm Regards.

[vanhaze]

@ Chrome Gadget:
Yes indeed. But I mostly wanted to show the weirdness of this. I mean, the whole item pooling stuff and grouping looks half finished.


Very true, my opinion also ..

I'm glad you are continuing the project it is looking really cool already, and I will surely use it.


Thank you !
I have placed a request in the Script Area, asking if some Scripter can help with with
an idea that came to my mind, to overcome the shortcoming in Reaper that Item Groups can't be pooled.
(ITEM BLOCKS rely heavily on the Item Groups functionailty in Reaper).
If some Scripter can be succesful in fullfilling that idea, the development of pooled ITEM BLOCKS will problaby succeed

[hopi]

thanks Van that seems to work fine on the renders and mute items...

[Chrome Gadget]

Found something:
https://github.com/actonDev/Reaper-Scripts

[David Carlyon]

Did anything happen with this yet? It seems like there are loads of requests for one or another type of item container - it seems like a really big thing reaper is missing. It is a shame.

coming from ableton, i lost a few things - Drum Racks being the biggest. So i thought - why not use audio. Reaper is so good with audio (free item positioning, spectral edits and so on) that drum programming can be really advanced.
BUT this seems to be holding me back a bit.

[dtr0q]

I think everyone who want's some kind of item container should focus on requesting subproject related features, as it almost what we want, but currently lacks editing usability for that kind of workflow.
Some suggested improvements:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=218291
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=218292
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=218290
Also to have SP window docked in main window would be awesome.

[David Carlyon]

Originally Posted by dtr0q

I think everyone who want's some kind of item container should focus on requesting subproject related features, as it almost what we want, but currently lacks editing usability for that kind of workflow.
Some suggested improvements:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=218291
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=218292
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=218290
Also to have SP window docked in main window would be awesome.

Yeah that is a good point. Will check those threads

[enroe]

Originally Posted by dtr0q

I think everyone who want's some kind of item container should
focus on requesting subproject related features, as it almost what we want,
but currently lacks editing usability for that kind of workflow ...

Yes, in principle subprojects are often the solution. But for a really
fluent workflow there are some disadvantages. BirdBird put it in words
here:

Why not use subprojects?

1) It is almost always necessary to tweak the elements of a song in the
context of the song. Attempting this with subprojects would be like trying
to open a door in another part of your house using a string tied to its door knob.

2) It would be very time consuming to do this (=editing with pooled blocks)
with subprojects looking at the number of building blocks in the example
provided above. It could also get very hard to manage all the projects.

[enroe]

Originally Posted by David Carlyon

Did anything happen with this yet? It seems like there are loads
of requests for one or another type of item container - it seems
like a really big thing reaper is missing ...

Yes - perhaps we should draw more attention to it.

[mozart999uk]

Are there any current FR's for item containers anywhere?

[enroe]

Originally Posted by mozart999uk

Are there any current FR's for item containers anywhere?

Of course, got to "Pooled Boxes" with some pictures.

[mozart999uk]

Originally Posted by enroe

Of course, got to "Pooled Boxes" with some pictures.

+1'd :-)

[MonkeyBars]

Did Item Blocks ever get finished?

Reaper team was working on a native solution 6 mos ago as well

[enroe]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

Did Item Blocks ever get finished?

Reaper team was working on a native solution 6 mos ago as well

It seemed like a new approach had to be taken here.

Anyway, I very much hope that this topic will be taken
up again. Alone, because you always need it for song
composition

[MonkeyBars]

I have created my version of this feature in ReaScript: it's called Superglue. Check it out here.