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Old 06-30-2022, 07:22 AM   #1
fabio77
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Default alternative to Halion-Symphonic Orchestra and SINE [SINE is working now]

Hello,

I finally could switch to my Linux-System to compose and record my music. The only thing I have to turn my Windows System on is to import some Project there and create and render some orchestral tracks with the Symphonic-Orchestra VST on Halion.

Does anyone know a really good alternative to it, that runs on Linux too? I especially need a good Cello and Violin and some soft strings like these on SINE, that I unfortunately get not to run on my installation too.

Last edited by fabio77; 07-01-2022 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 06-30-2022, 07:56 AM   #2
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Maybe I misunderstood, and you’ve already tried this—but if not, have you considered trying WINE with your Halion?
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:20 AM   #3
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Yes, I tried Halion on wine. But everytime the verification runs - browser opens and I log in there, and then the steinberg-site wants to open the Steinberg-Access-Manager-Application again, then the process stops.

The SINE-Tools I couldn't run under wine either (same with spitfire audio, but that's not so bad I don't need it). I read some people got SINE and spitfire to run under wine, but I didn't heard that anyone got Halion to run. If so, I probably would try again.
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:57 AM   #4
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Yes, I tried Halion on wine. But everytime the verification runs - browser opens and I log in there, and then the steinberg-site wants to open the Steinberg-Access-Manager-Application again, then the process stops.

The SINE-Tools I couldn't run under wine either (same with spitfire audio, but that's not so bad I don't need it). I read some people got SINE and spitfire to run under wine, but I didn't heard that anyone got Halion to run. If so, I probably would try again.
Try these, don't know if the quality is the same but they are worth a try and they have a native linux version.

https://musictop69.wixsite.com/orchestools
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Old 06-30-2022, 09:30 AM   #5
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Try these, don't know if the quality is the same but they are worth a try and they have a native linux version.

https://musictop69.wixsite.com/orchestools
Thank you for the link. I will try as soon as possible. The examples sound really great, though I don't know if it can compare to the solo cello and solo violin from the Halion Symphonic Orchestra. But I will definitely use them. Thanks.
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:09 AM   #6
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Thank you for the link. I will try as soon as possible. The examples sound really great, though I don't know if it can compare to the solo cello and solo violin from the Halion Symphonic Orchestra. But I will definitely use them. Thanks.
Another good choice is the Decent Sampler library, lots of weird and wonderful instruments there.

https://www.decentsamples.com/produc...ampler-plugin/

Here's where to find the instruments for Decent Sampler

https://www.pianobook.co.uk/sampler/decent-sampler/
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:47 AM   #7
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Another good choice is the Decent Sampler library, lots of weird and wonderful instruments there.

https://www.decentsamples.com/produc...ampler-plugin/

Here's where to find the instruments for Decent Sampler

https://www.pianobook.co.uk/sampler/decent-sampler/
Yes, this one I have installed yet. And I found there are a few good piano libraries, but the most other instruments I have tried sound a little scary or unnatural. But thank you for this one also.
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Old 06-30-2022, 04:19 PM   #8
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http://virtualplaying.com/
using a sfz player like sfizz
or others
may fit your needs.
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Old 06-30-2022, 05:17 PM   #9
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http://virtualplaying.com/
using a sfz player like sfizz
or others
may fit your needs.
I just installed this one, together with sfizz. First impression is good. I think it uses the same core libraries (versillian studios) as orchestools, is this right. I will try them too.

I took a look on the cinesamples libraries today, wich are very good, a little expensive and do need the free kontakt player, that I could not get running yet under wine. And besides these libraries are very big-sized.

So for now the virtual playing orchestra is fine. At least I am able to compose with these instruments. Later I have to compare them to my Halion instruments. Maybe I don't need it anymore, or I get the kontakt player running and purchase some cinesamples in the future.

Thank you for your suggestions. And if there is more, I'd be happy to hear about. The best would be native Linux installs, certainly
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Old 06-30-2022, 06:08 PM   #10
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I think you approaching this the right way, Fabio. I first tried using Linux for music over a year ago, but put it aside for awhile and went back to sonar. I tried again early this year, and my approach was like yours. first, get some basic things going, then later try some larger, perhaps more expensive, libraries. for me, it was Garritan. Then I upgraded kontakt to full, and that came with the VSL library in the Kontakt Factory Library. I knew at some point
I would need to get some better sounds. Cinesamples came along at just the right time for me. Hopefully they will have a similar sale next summer. I think getting Kontakt to work is key, and it's not that hard to do. It opens you up to many high-quality libraries. Until there are orchestral libraries for "native" Linux that are of comparable quality to what is available in Windows, it is the best option.
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Old 06-30-2022, 09:35 PM   #11
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Yes, this is what I thought. But the cinesamples are really nice Do you know this one? https://cinesamples.com/product/tina...c-cello-legato

The Garritan sound also good, and comes with more than one instrument. So very much to consider.

Thank you a lot for your help. And no, this is no sarcasm
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Old 07-01-2022, 05:32 AM   #12
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Yes, this is what I thought. But the cinesamples are really nice Do you know this one? https://cinesamples.com/product/tina...c-cello-legato

The Garritan sound also good, and comes with more than one instrument. So very much to consider.

Thank you a lot for your help. And no, this is no sarcasm
There's an application that turns Kontakt libraries into Decent Sampler libraries. I know David Hilowitz uses it to convert his own libraries.
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Old 07-01-2022, 07:54 AM   #13
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That sounds interesting. But I got Kontakt running now. And to be honest, I don't like the decent sampler, because I can not finetune it like other samplers or other instruments I use.

But thank you for this tip.
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Old 07-01-2022, 10:23 AM   #14
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There's an application that turns Kontakt libraries into Decent Sampler libraries. I know David Hilowitz uses it to convert his own libraries.
The two main types of tools that people can use to get an instrument from one format to another are: Multisample converters, and auto multisamplers.

I have serious doubts that any "sample converter" can adequately convert monolithic encrypted Kontakt libraries--everything since v.6 is encrypted by default these days. Very old multisamples done with old versions of Kontakt might work.

Probably the only viable way to get Kontakt libraries into another format is to use an auto multisampler. There are a few various applications available do this. One of the most well known, is Samplerobot. I personally use Disco DSP's Bliss for this purpose. You can also manually do it by hand with no tools, but it's a LOT of work.

The thing you have to be aware of with these tools are:

1. These tools don't do multisample conversions--they are tools to physically sample an instrument all over again, creating an entirely new sampled instrument from the sounds of the source instrument.

2. These auto multisamplers have intelligent algorithms to auto sample, auto map, and auto loop the samples according to your settings. For example, you can have the auto sampler capture every note, for 10 seconds of length, at 3 velocity layers with automatic looping. This puts together a basic new instrument.

3. These basic multisampled instruments that are made likely will need hands on tuning to get them to sound good--especially the looping.

In the end, you have a new instrument, made out of the Kontakt instrument that is only as detailed and as flexible as the autosampler (plus any manual tuninng) can get. It will NEVER be the same as the original samples, but with a little work, it can be quite useful. :-)
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Old 07-01-2022, 10:30 AM   #15
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I went searching for David Hilowitz, and found this useful video, where he describes how he makes multisamples. This is probably what was being referred to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6wprMToxSg
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Old 07-01-2022, 10:35 AM   #16
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That sounds interesting. But I got Kontakt running now. And to be honest, I don't like the decent sampler, because I can not finetune it like other samplers or other instruments I use.

But thank you for this tip.
Ah. OK. Well, I'm glad you got things working.
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Old 07-01-2022, 10:49 AM   #17
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Yesterday I tried to "convert" a .sfz-library with the developer-tool included in decent sampler, but it didn't work. So I installed the sfizz-sampler.

But the sfizz sampler does some strange things also. Sometimes, when I disable it notes are sustaining until I stop playback. And one test-project in reaper now crushes at loading, when reaper tries to load the sampler.

I'm happy that I got the NI Kontakt running.

And a little update to the topic heading: I just got the SINE-Player get to run.

I had to run winetricks -> set the default wineprefix -> run winecfg -> change the windows version from windows 7 to windows 10.

Like on this post: https://askubuntu.com/questions/5771...ible-with-wine

Then the SINE-Installer ran. But I couldn't download any libraries. So I searched at my windows directory for the "Helix" I would like to have installed (/Users/USERNAME/AppData/Local/Orchestral Tools/SINE Player/Content/751) copied it to a direction I created at my harddrive (out of my windows installation) wich I named "/SINE/content" and then could add the folder inside of SINE and the Helix-Library appeared.

Tried it here on Reaper. Everything works fine for now

Maybe I get the Steinberg Halion run also one day
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Old 07-01-2022, 10:55 AM   #18
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I went searching for David Hilowitz, and found this useful video, where he describes how he makes multisamples. This is probably what was being referred to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6wprMToxSg
Thank you. I will watch it.
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Old 07-01-2022, 02:09 PM   #19
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Great to see that you are making progress, Fabio. Here's another little freebie:

https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/numaplayer/

It works with wine. It actually has some very nice strings. Also some keys, including harpsichord and celesta, all good quality.
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Old 07-01-2022, 02:31 PM   #20
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Here's another little freebie:

https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/numaplayer/

It works with wine. It actually has some very nice strings. Also some keys, including harpsichord and celesta, all good quality.
Ok, thank you. Seems to have some interesting combinations. Maybe I install it to take a closer look on it.
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Old 07-02-2022, 05:02 AM   #21
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https://www.studiologic-music.com/products/numaplayer/

It works with wine. It actually has some very nice strings. Also some keys, including harpsichord and celesta, all good quality.
I have installed the player. And maybe I will keep it for some mallets and perhaps the electric piano. The strings are much better in SINE. And for keys and piano I have installed pianoteq and addictive keys. But thank you for it. I didn't knew this one before.

I found the "Project Sam" yesterday. Maybe I will try this too, although it sounds very dark.

https://projectsam.com/libraries/the...chestra/#specs
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Old 07-02-2022, 02:49 PM   #22
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If you have Sine working you are in great shape. Orchestral Tools, like cinesamples, is a great sample library. Having both kontakt and sine really gives you a lot of options. I may want to give sine a try myself.
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Old 07-02-2022, 06:08 PM   #23
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If you have Sine working you are in great shape. Orchestral Tools, like cinesamples, is a great sample library. Having both kontakt and sine really gives you a lot of options. I may want to give sine a try myself.
Yes, yesterday I browsed through the OT libraries. But these are more expensive than the cinesamples

For now I think, with the Virtual Playing Orchestra I have all I need to compose and arrange my music. Then I import the MIDI into Cubase or Reaper on Windows, render the needed instruments to waves, and can do the mixing in linux also. So, most of the time linux, and just a few simple steps of rendering at windows. This does not interrupt the workflow or creativity. It's not motivating, if I got an idea, and to just record it I would have to stop all I'm doing on my computer and reboot my system instead of just click the reaper shortcut and begin - and start jack

Apropos, I made a script to turn my CPU-cores to performance and back to powersave, if someone is interrested:

Code:
#!/bin/bash
# CPU-Gouvernor to Performance and back to Powersave

count=$(cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor | wc -l)
result=$(cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu1/cpufreq/scaling_governor)
if [[ $result = "powersave" ]]
then
	echo "CPU is running on powersave.";
	echo "To switch to performance please enter password."
	echo -n performance | sudo tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor;
	echo " will be set on all $count CPU cores.";
	cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor;
	echo "To check it you could enter cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor";
else
	echo "CPU runs on performance.";
	echo "To switch to powersave please enter password."
	echo -n powersave | sudo tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor;
	echo " will be set on all $count CPU cores.";
	cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor;
	echo "To check it you could enter cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor";
fi
exit
Maybe it's not perfect, but for me it works.
It has to be made executable: sudo chmod 755 /path_to_script/my_script.sh
And maybe exported to make it available from the terminal: export PATH="$PATH:/path_to_script/my_script.sh"
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