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Old 05-18-2020, 11:27 AM   #1161
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Originally Posted by moss View Post
Then you have mixed up versions. Clean the directory and unzip the files again. Always delete the previous version first.
Ah, I see. Thanks
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:32 AM   #1162
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I have a feature request if you don't mind.

Could we get dotted divisions for the beat repeat please? I use these more than any other in Maschine. That's where the funk is.

Cheers
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:56 AM   #1163
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[QUOTE=moss;2289820]
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Originally Posted by SauRango View Post

Not sure if I follow. So you say it is working now with the MCU implementation that comes with Reaper but not with DrivenByMoss?
16 channels work perfectly (all touch faders light up, buttons work, smooth) through drivenbymoss, but when i try to add the 2nd extender, it will not work.

24 channels work through the native MCU BUT the touch faders do not work nor do a lot of the buttons.

Make sense? :-)
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:50 AM   #1164
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Originally Posted by moss View Post
The manual is included in the ZIP file and the GitHub which contains the manual online is linked from the download page...
We are speaking of this page, yes?

https://github.com/git-moss/DrivenBy...e-Mikro-Mk3.md

From what I can see it doesn't say anything about the different scene modes or the pad offset either.
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Old 05-19-2020, 10:51 AM   #1165
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[QUOTE=SauRango;2290114]
Quote:
Originally Posted by moss View Post

16 channels work perfectly (all touch faders light up, buttons work, smooth) through drivenbymoss, but when i try to add the 2nd extender, it will not work.

24 channels work through the native MCU BUT the touch faders do not work nor do a lot of the buttons.

Make sense? :-)
Hmm, I use a library which fixes several issues with the Java MIDI implementation on Mac. Could be that it has an issue with ports with the same name. Could you please post the list of all original MIDI port names (e.g. from the Reaper MIDI settings page) and all ports which appear in DrivenbyMoss?
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Old 05-19-2020, 10:54 AM   #1166
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Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
We are speaking of this page, yes?

https://github.com/git-moss/DrivenBy...e-Mikro-Mk3.md

From what I can see it doesn't say anything about the different scene modes or the pad offset either.
Yes, I explained the pad layouts just too often ;-) It originates from the Push layout. E.g. you can watch my first introduction videos of Push4Bitwig or an Ableton Push introduction video (or the Push manual explains it too).
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Old 05-20-2020, 11:30 AM   #1167
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[QUOTE=moss;2290606]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SauRango View Post

Hmm, I use a library which fixes several issues with the Java MIDI implementation on Mac. Could be that it has an issue with ports with the same name. Could you please post the list of all original MIDI port names (e.g. from the Reaper MIDI settings page) and all ports which appear in DrivenbyMoss?
See attached :-)
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File Type: png Screenshot 2020-05-20 at 19.22.53.png (56.2 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg Screenshot 2020-05-20 at 19.27.46.jpg (55.5 KB, 11 views)
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Old 05-20-2020, 01:09 PM   #1168
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Originally Posted by moss View Post
In the play mode you can use the "Scene 6" button to switch to Chromatic mode. The offset between the rows can be set with "Scene 1" and "Scene 2" buttons. These settings are also stored with the project (see the project settings dialog).
I can't get the Scene mode to do anything to be honest. Nothing changes about the controller or settings except it says it's in Scene mode. I was able to get into the project settings but it's not exactly clear what those are. There are 4 spots each for scales and note repeat settings. I assume those are the different "scenes" yes?

And with these settings (I had to change the 4th set of "scales" and "note repeat")

Major
C
Chromatic
Sequent^

The mikro mk3 does do chromatic but it operates in reverse of everything else on the device. Normally the lower notes start at pad 1 (the bottom left pad) but with these settings the lowest note is on the top left pad (pad 13).
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Old 05-21-2020, 11:57 PM   #1169
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[QUOTE=SauRango;2291137]
Quote:
Originally Posted by moss View Post

See attached :-)
Wow, interesting, the device names are really identical. On Windows, AFAIK this is not possible but this is Macos.
So, this clearly causes the issue since the identification is via the name.

However, it is possible to rename devices on Macos:

1) Open the Audio-Midi-Setup app
2) Open the MIDI environment from the Windows menu
3) Double click the device to open its properties
4) Change the device name (e.g. name them Extender 1 and Extender 2).

Also make sure to disable the devices in the Reaper MIDI properties!

Hope this makes it work!
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:10 AM   #1170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
I can't get the Scene mode to do anything to be honest. Nothing changes about the controller or settings except it says it's in Scene mode.
How clips and scenes are emulated in Reaper is explained here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ex...Eklxqu&index=5

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
I was able to get into the project settings but it's not exactly clear what those are. There are 4 spots each for scales and note repeat settings. I assume those are the different "scenes" yes?

And with these settings (I had to change the 4th set of "scales" and "note repeat")

Major
C
Chromatic
Sequent^

The mikro mk3 does do chromatic but it operates in reverse of everything else on the device. Normally the lower notes start at pad 1 (the bottom left pad) but with these settings the lowest note is on the top left pad (pad 13).
I think you are mixing up scenes and scales. See what Scenes are in the video above. Scales instead refer to a musical scale like "E minor". These are already the first 2 settings, the scale and its root key. Chromatic decides if only notes fromthe scale or all notes are displayed. Layout finally defines what is the note offset between the rows and the direction.
To see the changes you need to have a track selected with a VSTi loaded and the play mode must be selected.
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Old 05-22-2020, 02:16 AM   #1171
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Moss,

I am obviously not communicating properly.

I use the Native Instruments Maschine Mikro MK3.

I said that I couldn't figure out how to put it in chromatic mode. Your response was this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by moss View Post
In the play mode you can use the "Scene 6" button to switch to Chromatic mode. The offset between the rows can be set with "Scene 1" and "Scene 2" buttons. These settings are also stored with the project (see the project settings dialog).
So this is why I am even pressing the "scenes" button on the maschine mikro at all. Last night I did come to realize that the scenes button on my controller has to do with regions, which I do remember watching in a video, but still, I'm getting the sense that you were troubleshooting thinking I have another controller.

You also told me to watch the original push4bitwig series which is 40 minutes worth of video. All of which I watched, I didn't really see where that applies to me about changing "scenes" at all. I am speaking of your advice here, not of the "scenes" button on my controller.

So... On the maschine mk 3, is there a way to set it to chromatic without diving into settings? and in my case, going into the DBM project settings, I can set it there, however there are 4 slots for scale and I am having to guess which one works.

And again I finally got it to do chromatic by changing that 4th slot. However, it works in reverse of the way it's supposed to, or at least reverse of everything other mode on the mikro mk3. Where the top left pad is the lowest note. It should be the bottom left that's the lowest note.

.....

I said that pads 4 and 5 are the same note, as well as 8/9, and 12/13. Which you can actually see in your video about the maschine mikro mk3. They both light up when you press one of them. This is happening without me changing anything, so when it's in it's regular scale mode. I'd have to do more testing to figure that out but like I said, you can see it in your video.
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Old 05-22-2020, 01:25 PM   #1172
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Hi,
just upgrade from 8.80 to 9.01 and I get this error when opening or adding a new track :
"drivenbymoss: ERROR: Could not call updateModel.java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: getFormattedDocumentSettings"


Beside that everything seems to be working ok


win10 64bits reaper 6.08


cheers
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:07 AM   #1173
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Originally Posted by Regisfofo View Post
Hi,
just upgrade from 8.80 to 9.01 and I get this error when opening or adding a new track :
"drivenbymoss: ERROR: Could not call updateModel.java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: getFormattedDocumentSettings"


Beside that everything seems to be working ok


win10 64bits reaper 6.08


cheers
Clear the directory, unzip the files again. DO not copy over the previous installation.
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Old 05-23-2020, 12:18 AM   #1174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
I am obviously not communicating properly.

I use the Native Instruments Maschine Mikro MK3.
Ah, I somehow thought you were talking about the Launchpad Mini Mk3. Sorry for the confusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
So... On the maschine mk 3, is there a way to set it to chromatic without diving into settings? and in my case, going into the DBM project settings, I can set it there, however there are 4 slots for scale and I am having to guess which one works.
Currently, it is only possible via the settings. But now that button combinations are possible on the device I could add that. Will put it on the TODO list.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
I said that pads 4 and 5 are the same note, as well as 8/9, and 12/13. Which you can actually see in your video about the maschine mikro mk3. They both light up when you press one of them. This is happening without me changing anything, so when it's in it's regular scale mode. I'd have to do more testing to figure that out but like I said, you can see it in your video.
Yes, that is how this scale layout works and why I pointed you to these videos. The next row is an offset of 4, which makes it easy to play chords.
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Old 05-23-2020, 04:22 AM   #1175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moss View Post
Ah, I somehow thought you were talking about the Launchpad Mini Mk3. Sorry for the confusion.



Currently, it is only possible via the settings. But now that button combinations are possible on the device I could add that. Will put it on the TODO list.



Yes, that is how this scale layout works and why I pointed you to these videos. The next row is an offset of 4, which makes it easy to play chords.

Lol!

Thanks for all your help again, Moss.

Now that we are squared away:

I totally understand what you mean about offset. I get the function you are trying to achieve here. What I don't see is a way to change it on the mikro mk3 (or in the settings). It sounds like you can change it on the push and other devices. In my opinion, the maschine mikro doesn't really need offset at all, I wouldn't have a problem hitting any three pads I needed to due to the layout of the device.

Did you understand what I meant about the chromatic mode working in reverse to the rest of the modes on the device? If that's intentional that's fine I just wanted confirmation from you before I set up some templates

If it is intentional I would politely nudge you to change it as well. I'm sure I'll be flipping back and forth between using Maschine and dbm with other instruments and that would confusing having the chromatic mode working in the opposite direction.
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Old 05-23-2020, 09:14 AM   #1176
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[QUOTE=moss;2291890]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SauRango View Post

Wow, interesting, the device names are really identical. On Windows, AFAIK this is not possible but this is Macos.
So, this clearly causes the issue since the identification is via the name.

However, it is possible to rename devices on Macos:

1) Open the Audio-Midi-Setup app
2) Open the MIDI environment from the Windows menu
3) Double click the device to open its properties
4) Change the device name (e.g. name them Extender 1 and Extender 2).

Also make sure to disable the devices in the Reaper MIDI properties!

Hope this makes it work!
Ok, i tried this. It renames an Alias which doesnt rename in Drivenbymoss...see screenshots
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File Type: png Screenshot 2020-05-23 at 17.11.05.png (22.8 KB, 9 views)
File Type: png Screenshot 2020-05-23 at 17.09.23.png (24.8 KB, 9 views)
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Old 05-24-2020, 10:03 AM   #1177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moss View Post
Clear the directory, unzip the files again. DO not copy over the previous installation.
Thank you!
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Old 05-24-2020, 12:04 PM   #1178
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Quote:
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Got it, the problem is the special degree character in one of the plugins (witti/MDA/mda_roundpanner). Will see how I can fix this.

I have test to remove the plugin but the same problem. i have install many dll in syste32 for it work it's very strange installation
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:00 AM   #1179
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[QUOTE=SauRango;2292640]
Quote:
Originally Posted by moss View Post

Ok, i tried this. It renames an Alias which doesnt rename in Drivenbymoss...see screenshots
That's strange, just tried again and the renaming is picked up. I also checked the documentation of the library and it explicitly states that this is supported: https://github.com/DerekCook/CoreMid...g-device-names

Can you post a screenshot of where you changed the name?
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:02 AM   #1180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandfougue View Post
I have test to remove the plugin but the same problem.
The problem you show in the screenshot is fixed and I will release it soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grandfougue View Post
i have install many dll in syste32 for it work it's very strange installation
Not sure what you are talking about. You do not need to install anything in System32. Where did you read that and what did you put in there?
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Old 05-25-2020, 11:54 AM   #1181
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Version 9.02 is online!

Get it from http://mossgrabers.de
  • All devices
    • Fixed: reaper-jsfx.ini could not be loaded if it contained non UTF-8 characters
  • Push
    • Fixed: Push 2: Message was flickering if no presets matched the filter
    in the browser

Enjoy!
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Old 05-25-2020, 01:35 PM   #1182
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I don't understand I always have this at launch after installation in user plugin
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:26 AM   #1183
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Originally Posted by grandfougue View Post
I don't understand I always have this at launch after installation in user plugin
It seems you somehow added the UserPlugins folder (or a parent folder) to the list of folders to scan for VST plugins (this folder is intended for Reaper extensions not VST plugins). That's why Reaper is trying to load the named DLL as a VST plugins, which fails.
Look in the "REAPER settings" dialog under Plug-ins -> VST.
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Old 05-27-2020, 07:18 AM   #1184
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First, thank you Moss for your hard work on this. It's much more than Novation's own support, which I'm kind of disappointed in atm.

I'm trying to get this working with my Novation SL MKIII. I've installed NovationUsb drivers and updated to the latest firmware via Components but my expression wheel calibration didn't work (shrug).
Have a few noob questions for getting this working:

Initially, I was getting a "start Reaper" message on the MK3 which wasn't responding. Now, I'm getting 5 blank lcd screens in InControl mode. None of the buttons light up or respond. Is that the mode I should be in to use DAW integration?

In my MIDI hardware settings, for inputs I have "Novation SL MKIII, MIDIIN2 (Novation SL MKIII), MIDIIN3 (Novation SL MKIII), and Novation SL MKIII BL".
And for outputs MIDIOUT2 (Novation SL MKIII), MIDIOUT3 (Novation SL MKIII), MIDIOUT4 (Novation SL MKIII), MIDIOUT5 (Novation SL MKIII), Novation SL MKIII, Novation SL MKIII BL.
What do each of these do?
Especially Novation SL MKIII BL...what is it for?

As I understand it, I should set "Novation SL MKIII" and "MIDIIN2 (Novation SL MKIII)" to "Enabled+Control" mode, right? And MIDIOUT3 (Novation SL MKIII) should be enabled?

I'm really at a loss here and feel like something's messed up and maybe I should consider a factory reset. Thanks for any help.
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Old 05-27-2020, 10:36 AM   #1185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moss View Post
It seems you somehow added the UserPlugins folder (or a parent folder) to the list of folders to scan for VST plugins (this folder is intended for Reaper extensions not VST plugins). That's why Reaper is trying to load the named DLL as a VST plugins, which fails.
Look in the "REAPER settings" dialog under Plug-ins -> VST.
Thank it wrok
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Old 05-27-2020, 11:13 AM   #1186
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Originally Posted by jtn191 View Post
First, thank you Moss for your hard work on this. It's much more than Novation's own support, which I'm kind of disappointed in atm.

I'm trying to get this working with my Novation SL MKIII. I've installed NovationUsb drivers and updated to the latest firmware via Components but my expression wheel calibration didn't work (shrug).
Have a few noob questions for getting this working:

Initially, I was getting a "start Reaper" message on the MK3 which wasn't responding. Now, I'm getting 5 blank lcd screens in InControl mode. None of the buttons light up or respond. Is that the mode I should be in to use DAW integration?

In my MIDI hardware settings, for inputs I have "Novation SL MKIII, MIDIIN2 (Novation SL MKIII), MIDIIN3 (Novation SL MKIII), and Novation SL MKIII BL".
And for outputs MIDIOUT2 (Novation SL MKIII), MIDIOUT3 (Novation SL MKIII), MIDIOUT4 (Novation SL MKIII), MIDIOUT5 (Novation SL MKIII), Novation SL MKIII, Novation SL MKIII BL.
What do each of these do?
Especially Novation SL MKIII BL...what is it for?

As I understand it, I should set "Novation SL MKIII" and "MIDIIN2 (Novation SL MKIII)" to "Enabled+Control" mode, right? And MIDIOUT3 (Novation SL MKIII) should be enabled?

I'm really at a loss here and feel like something's messed up and maybe I should consider a factory reset. Thanks for any help.
I have no idea what the "BL" is, it does not exist on my system. This is Windows 10, right?
The detailed installation instructions are in the included manual. See sections 2.2 and 19.1.
In short you need to select the 2nd input as the first in-/output and the 1st input as the second in DrivenByMoss. Disable all in-/outputs in Reaper!

First in-/output port is the keyboard and sequencers.
Second in-/output port is In-DAW control
Third in-/output port is external MIDI.
As said above, no idea about BL.
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Old 05-28-2020, 02:13 AM   #1187
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This is awesome. I have a Komplete Kontrol S49 and Ableton Push2 both working with DBM, and then a Behringer BCF2000 working with the stock Mackie Extender profile, and it's all working great!
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:15 AM   #1188
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DrivenByMoss 9.10 is online!

Since Bitwig Studio 3.2 is just around the corner, I decided to release a final version for it.

Many new features for the Launchpad models and the Launchpad Pro Mk3 support many have been waiting for!

Get it from http://mossgrabers.de
  • Launchpad
    • New: Support for Launchpad Pro Mk3
    • New: Pads which show states in Shift mode are lit brighter when enabled (Play, Record, Metronome, ...)
    • New: **Shift+Delete**: Toggle Repeat (was Shift+Duplicate)
    • New: **Shift+Duplicate**: Doubles the clips content
    • New: Simulator layout is now closer to the specific Launchpad model
    • New: In Shift mode, cursor up or down enters the tempo mode. In Tempo mode you can change the tempo with the cursor keys.
    • New: In Shift mode, cursor left or right enters the shuffle mode. In Shuffle mode you can change the shuffle amount with the cursor keys.
    • New: Added record quantization setting (Shift+Quantise)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkpu...ature=youtu.be

Enjoy!
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Old 05-31-2020, 10:02 PM   #1189
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The JS: midi_arp plugin is constantly popping up for me, even when my Push is turned off. It's as if hitting Ctrl + Z causes it to get added to a random track. I have no idea tbh.

9.01
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Old 05-31-2020, 10:10 PM   #1190
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The JS: midi_arp plugin is constantly popping up for me, even when my Push is turned off. It's as if hitting Ctrl + Z causes it to get added to a random track. I have no idea tbh.

9.01
Same here!
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:09 AM   #1191
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Same here!
Can you give some steps to reproduce?
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:43 AM   #1192
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Can you give some steps to reproduce?
I tried, but to no avail, sorry. Happens sporadic. That's the reason I didn't report it in the first place. Not even sure, whether there's a relation to DrivenByMoss.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:59 AM   #1193
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I tried, but to no avail, sorry.
Well, a cup of coffe and things look different ....

1) create a new project
2) create a track
3) set it to record armed <- this is important
4) No midi_arp. Great! Save project
5) load project. Midi_arp gets added after loading (visible via undo-list)

Edit: It's not important to set it to record armed. It suffices to select the track. The (first) selected track gets mid_arped, if there are more than one track

Last edited by Hafer; 06-01-2020 at 01:10 AM. Reason: with milk and sugar please
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Old 06-01-2020, 03:25 AM   #1194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hafer View Post
Well, a cup of coffe and things look different ....

1) create a new project
2) create a track
3) set it to record armed <- this is important
4) No midi_arp. Great! Save project
5) load project. Midi_arp gets added after loading (visible via undo-list)

Edit: It's not important to set it to record armed. It suffices to select the track. The (first) selected track gets mid_arped, if there are more than one track
Thanks, fixed it!
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Old 06-01-2020, 05:22 AM   #1195
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Default Functionality Query and Feature Request

Firstly, can I say a big Thank You to Moss for developing this tool - it's brilliant and brings my Launchpad Mini Mk3 alive in Reaper!

I have a question regarding one of the functions and (if they are accepted here) a Feature Request?

Functionality Query:
Can anyone advise what the "Device Browser" mode does in Reaper? I can't quite figure this out! I've read the User Guide but can't quite relate what it says to Reaper?

Feature Request?:
A way to create Custom layouts in DrivenByMoss. The Launchpad Mini natively supports the creation of multiple Custom Modes (using Novation Components) which can be transferred to the Launchpad or saved as SysEx files. These define custom note on/off, MIDI CC or Program Changes for any of the pads. These are very useful to use with certain VSTs. Currently, we have to disengage the Launchpad as a DrivenByMoss control surface, re-enable the Launchpad as a MIDI Device, use the custom mode, and then re-enable the DrivenByMoss control surface.
If adding this isn't possible is there a simpler way to switch the Launchpad between control surface and MIDI device modes?

Last edited by TimDudd; 06-01-2020 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:01 AM   #1196
spkr4thdd
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Default Acceleration on Rotaries?

Hi Moss,
Once again, echoing everyone's thanks for all your efforts. The tools really stable and SO usable with my X-Touch Universal.

Is there any way we can include acceleration for the rotaries? The rotaries on my X-Touch (as with the MCU I think?) send different messages (steps) depending on how quickly I twist them. So fine would be very slowly, ramping up to really broad if I turn them very quickly.

This is great for editing parameters differently across plugins.

Is this something you could include in future versions?
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Old 06-01-2020, 02:54 PM   #1197
phillippeo
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Default Function Keys

Hi Jurgen,

Is it possible for you to remove reference to the function keys so we are able to assign them commands freely?

I am using the X Touch One and would like to map the function keys to my workflow but am unable to override your commands as I assume they are hard coded?

Your drop down in the config editor limits to very few commands but I would like to place commands such as "Render project", "Save" and "Quit" etc..

Otherwise, Your extension has the X Touch One working 100% alongside Softube fader 1, following tracks as expected etc.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:02 AM   #1198
moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimDudd View Post
Functionality Query:
Can anyone advise what the "Device Browser" mode does in Reaper? I can't quite figure this out! I've read the User Guide but can't quite relate what it says to Reaper?
Yes, that is an open issue. It only works for devices with a display. On all other devices you navigate blind. Problem is that the implementation is for the Bitwig browser and the Reaper browser cannot be controlled via the API. I have it on my list to write my own popup browser but that is quite some work and very at the end of the wishlist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimDudd View Post
Functionality Query:
A way to create Custom layouts in DrivenByMoss. The Launchpad Mini natively supports the creation of multiple Custom Modes (using Novation Components) which can be transferred to the Launchpad or saved as SysEx files. These define custom note on/off, MIDI CC or Program Changes for any of the pads. These are very useful to use with certain VSTs. Currently, we have to disengage the Launchpad as a DrivenByMoss control surface, re-enable the Launchpad as a MIDI Device, use the custom mode, and then re-enable the DrivenByMoss control surface.
If adding this isn't possible is there a simpler way to switch the Launchpad between control surface and MIDI device modes?
Sorry, no. Even if I would add an option to switch to the default Launchpad mode, I would also need to disable the DBM instance, route the MIDI and there would still be no way to go back to DBM.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:10 AM   #1199
moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spkr4thdd View Post
Hi Moss,
Once again, echoing everyone's thanks for all your efforts. The tools really stable and SO usable with my X-Touch Universal.

Is there any way we can include acceleration for the rotaries? The rotaries on my X-Touch (as with the MCU I think?) send different messages (steps) depending on how quickly I twist them. So fine would be very slowly, ramping up to really broad if I turn them very quickly.

This is great for editing parameters differently across plugins.

Is this something you could include in future versions?
This should actually be the case. But I do not have a X-Touch to test.
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Old 06-02-2020, 01:29 AM   #1200
moss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillippeo View Post
Is it possible for you to remove reference to the function keys so we are able to assign them commands freely?

I am using the X Touch One and would like to map the function keys to my workflow but am unable to override your commands as I assume they are hard coded?

Your drop down in the config editor limits to very few commands but I would like to place commands such as "Render project", "Save" and "Quit" etc..
If you use the "MC user" mode on the "X Touch One" you can remap the buttons but only to available MCU commands (which I support but these are nearly all).
AFAIK "Render project" and "Quit" are not part of the MCU protocol. But "Save" should work fine.

"Render project" would make sense to add it to the list but not sure about "Quit". You mean quitting Reaper, right?
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