How to automate the dynamics knob in Native Instrument's String ensemble.

[Redbeard]

Hello, everyone.

I am trying to get NI's String ensemble to sound realistic but cannot find a way to automate the dynamics parameter... in the envelope window I get all the parameters in the instrument EXCEPT the dynamics. Oh, and I have an additional 500ish parameters without name...
Maybe I'm just missing something really simple...
Did anyone figure this one out?

[airon]

In t he automation preferences there is a checkbox to activate and arm parameters you CHANGE when in a writing mode for the track.

The envelope will show up.

[teniente powell]

Hello. Usually, the dynamics is controlled by the Modulation, Midi CC#1. Insert ReaControlMIDI as a Fx before Kontakt in the track. Pick "Enable" in Control Change, and pick "Raw Mode". There is five options. Select CC1 (Mod Wheel) in one of them.

Now, in the envelope window, you can see "ReaControlMIDI (Cockos)" with the CC1 (Mod Wheel) option. Select that option and pick Visible. Now you have a CC1 envelope.

[DarkStar]

Can you post a pic to show exactly which knob you mean? In Kontakt 4 all the parameters were named (but the K5 instrument may be different).

You may need to assign it to an unused automation parameter within Kontakt first (details in the Kontakt Ref Manual) then it will appear in the list in Reaper.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Redbeard

Hello, everyone.

I am trying to get NI's String ensemble to sound realistic but cannot find a way to automate the dynamics parameter... in the envelope window I get all the parameters in the instrument EXCEPT the dynamics. Oh, and I have an additional 500ish parameters without name...
Maybe I'm just missing something really simple...
Did anyone figure this one out?

Hi Redbeard, and welcome to the forum.

Really and truly, there is no so called "dynamics knobs". There are a multitude of modulators that contribute to the over all dynamics of an instrument.

The thing is, you can automate any one of them with Kontakts "Midi Automation". However, you need to read the manual for the "String ensemble" to know if there are any controllers that are controlled by the script.

[Maximananda]

Hi everyone, I'm happy to join the community Just changed from Reason to Reaper

I have exactly the same problem with this String Ensemble library.

Now firstly, there actually is a "Dynamics knob" in NI String Ensemble library. It is kind of a center knob that gives a lot of control. Picture of the knob is under the link "SYMPHONY_SERIES_STRING_EN-061 small.jpg"

Now this knob is by default controlled by the modwheel but as Redbeard pointed out it does not show up in the Envelope- window. Nevertheless automation for it can be recorded:
1. I recorded a couple of chords with the strings
2. I activated "Record: MIDI overdub/replace" option
3. I hit record again and tweaked the modwheel
4. This resulted in automation of the dynamics of the chords

But..

This automation is embedded in the media item on the track and does not have an envelope lane and it does not show up in the envelope window either, thus I don't know how to edit it afterwards if I later on want to make some subtle changes. The only way you can see that the modulation was recorded is that it shows up in the MIDI item under the chords. The modulation is the small "mountains" under the chords in the picture: modwheel automation.jpg

Next I tried the the trick with ReaControlMIDI as instructed by teniente powell and this produced an envelope track for the modwheel. But when I recorded some tweaking of the modwheel (the envelope lane was armed and I used the "Write" mode) something strange happened. It recorded the same modulation that I described in the previous example that can be seen as the small "mountains", but did not draw a curve on the envelope lane. You can see this result in the picture called with reacontrolmidi small.jpg where the are the "mountains" but the envelope lane curve remains a static line. And when I listen to the sound, the modulation seems to be "fighting" between the curve of the small "mountains" and between the static value of the line on envelope lane, going back and forth extremely fast.

I also did this kind of the other way around: first I did the trick with ReaControlMIDI to create an envelope lane for the modwheel. Then I manually drew a curve on the envelope lane. After this when I listened to it, it works as it should. But when I tried to record again by tweaking the modwheel on my MIDI controller it recorded only the "mountains" but did not affect the curve I drew earlier, but the curve was overwritten by a static line as if the was no modulation. So somehow the envelope lane does not pick up what is done with the modwheel on the MIDI controller.

As Redbeard pointed out, all the other parameters from Kontakt do show up in the Envelope window and creating envelope track and tweaking them work exactly as they should.

I suppose the first way I described would propably be the simplest way to do it, if someone can think of a way how to edit it afterwards...

Thanks for your time!

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Maximananda

Now firstly, there actually is a "Dynamics knob" in NI String Ensemble library. It is kind of a center knob that gives a lot of control. Picture of the knob is under the link "SYMPHONY_SERIES_STRING_EN-061 small.jpg

Aah, okay, I can see I was barking up the wrong tree.

EDIT: Okay, after reading your post all the way throught, first of all, let me say welcome to the forum Maximananda.

Before attempting to answer all your questions, may I ask, did you open the midi track/item into the Midi Editor? Right click on the midi item to select the Midi Editor.

At the bottom or the ME you can select CC1 MOD in the CC-lanes.

[teniente powell]

Maximananda, that big knob controls the CC#1, Modulation, driven by the mod wheel in a standard keyboard, or driven by whatever knob/slider/wheel you want. The "midi learn" function exists for that.

That string library is recorded in several layers: piano, mezzopiano, mezzoforte, forte, piu forte, ... All layers are arranged as a sandwich (down the piano, up the piu forte) and with the mod wheel you can go across the layers (piano with CC#1=0, piu forte with CC#1=127). That is the dynamics of the strings.

You can draw your dynamics in the midi editor lane (the mountains you say) or in the envelope lane. I repeat: "OR in the envelope lane". OR, not AND. Because if you have CC#1 data in both places, they fight, as you say. Both, midi editor lane and envelope lane throw Midi CC#1 orders, and the envelope has the priority.

¿Solution? Two solutions.

One. You can record mod wheel data in the midi editor lane (the mountains) and that is enough. Tod has told you how to see it. Or maybe you want to pass them to the envelope lane with the action "SWS/BR: Convert selected CC events in active item to square (or linear) envelope points in selected envelope". It's very easy to use. Selected the values of CC#1 in the midi editor (the mountains), left click mouse in the envelope lane, run the action. Now, the mountains are in the envelope lane. Don't forget to delete the CC#1 values in the midi editor for avoiding the fight.

Two. If you want to record the mod wheel movements directly to the envelope lane, open the RealControlMIDI window, move the CC1(Mod Wheel) slider in the window, clic "Param" buttom, select Learn, now move the knob/slider/wheel/foot controller you want. Arm the envelope for recording in Write mode and, while playing (not recording) you move the knob/slider/wheel/foot controller you have chosen. Now the mountains are drawn in the envelope lane.

When finished, select "Param" buttom again and deselected "Learn"

[Tod]

Right on teniente powell and I'd like to add, there's something you need to be aware of if you use regular envelopes with ReaControlMIDI. With ReaControlMIDI the density of the events will depend on your buffer settings. The lower buffer settings the better. Basically 64 to 256 is okay, but beyond 256 it starts to get a little more critical with steep curves. At 1024 it can be quite noticeable.

Of course Kontakt has a smoothing setting, and if it's set between 200 and 250, there should be no problem. The maximum is 5000 but you don't want to go to far above 250, it's starts to lag the higher it is.

It really is best to use the CC-lanes in the Midi Editor. It's also more intimate, you've got the notes and the CCs right there in front of you.

I also use "Record: MIDI overdub/replace>Record: MIDI overdub" and if you want to record over something that's already been recorded, you need to delete what you want to replace, before recording over it.

[Maximananda]

Thank you both very much for your answers!

Tod, I got it, now its so obvious and easy after you explained it. Its always the problem with a new program; you just don't simply know where everything is.

Teniente, I got the thing working where I record the modwheel movements directly to the envelope lane! With the other one I was a bit lost, how to move the "mountains" for the MIDI editor to the envelope lane. So please can you still explain that a little bit more in detail. I only got to the point of selecting the "mountains" in the MIDI editor. After that I'm not sure what to do.

This is great stuff guys! Thank God for the forum. I don't even want to think how much time and head-banging-against-the-wall it would have taken to figure all this out without help. So thanks again and good night. Its sleep time here in Finland

[lowellben]

Originally Posted by Tod

Of course Kontakt has a smoothing setting, and if it's set between 200 and 250, there should be no problem. The maximum is 5000 but you don't want to go to far above 250, it's starts to lag the higher it is.

What do you mean, Kontakt's smooth setting? Where is this you are talking about?

The LAG value? I'm unaware of "smoothing setting" in Kontakt re: CC data, can you share?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by lowellben

What do you mean, Kontakt's smooth setting? Where is this you are talking about?

The LAG value? I'm unaware of "smoothing setting" in Kontakt re: CC data, can you share?

Hi Lowel, yes the "LAG" value, you've obviously seen it, just on the right of a modulator.

The highest value is actually 4999, but you only need 250 to smooth the modulation out nicely. In fact at around 250, a CC controller like "CC11 Expression" goes from linear to exponential, or I should say, it responds in an exponential manner. It's smoothed out a lot and what could be zipper noise sounds just fine.

[lowellben]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi Lowel, yes the "LAG" value, you've obviously seen it, just on the right of a modulator.

The highest value is actually 4999, but you only need 250 to smooth the modulation out nicely. In fact at around 250, a CC controller like "CC11 Expression" goes from linear to exponential, or I should say, it responds in an exponential manner. It's smoothed out a lot and what could be zipper noise sounds just fine.

Interesting. I've actually only used LAG like 2 times, and I think I did it for like a value of maybe 50 tops.

Time to go play now with ~250-500 values hehehe Thanks!

[teniente powell]

Originally Posted by Maximananda

how to move the "mountains" for the MIDI editor to the envelope lane.

Attached a pdf (compressed because of the filesize).

[Maximananda]

Thank you Teniente for the super clear instructions!

[indigomirage]

I know this is somewhat dead thread, but this was a issue for me too.

However, there's an easy solution that I stumbled on...
-Inside Kontakt, click on the Automation Tab (at the top of the Browser. Then select Host Automation.
-Drag one of the unassigned Host Parameters onto the Dynamics knob. At this point, the dynamics parameter will now be exposed to the DAW.

I think it's really as simple as the fact that they didn't bother mapping it.

FWIW, I tend to clear out the midi automation within Kontakt itself, and only use the mappings to the DAW. They don't play well together. (I may be missing something of course, but it works for me).

Good luck!