Articulation Mapper pre-release thread

[mabian]

Originally Posted by Vagalume

Let's see if you are right ... according to your prediction Articulations maps should start now ... we'll see ...

I think Razor Edit must have been really difficult to implement, not only for the complexity of the function in itself but also for the implications of integrating it smoothly in the other edit functionalities.

I would tend to say that Articulation Mapper would be easier, but it's so easy to say so when you're not the one that implements it...

- Mario

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by Vagalume

Let's see if you are right ... according to your prediction Articulations maps should start now ... we'll see ...

No trace yet.. :P But it is understandable. Now that they have worked hard for months on that huge thing that razor editing is, it makes sense that they don't immediately tackle some other very complex feature where people keep arguing for months how it should work and instead fix a bunch of smaller issues to move REAPER forward overall before opening the next can of worms.

[_Stevie_]

I cannot stress this enough... the devs need to coorporate with Jason (Tack) from Reaticulate. He laid it out perfectly. There's no need to re-invent the wheel.

[mabian]

Originally Posted by Phazma

No trace yet.. :P But it is understandable. Now that they have worked hard for months on that huge thing that razor editing is, it makes sense that they don't immediately tackle some other very complex feature where people keep arguing for months how it should work and instead fix a bunch of smaller issues to move REAPER forward overall before opening the next can of worms.

Well, it seems now there's focus on the lane / take / item stuff, which is not trivial as well... I guess they don't like to get bored

- Mario

[Phazma]

@Stevie I agree. However a native articulation system would allow to expand a lot on what Tack can provide us via scripting. Like for example adding Reaticulate/ArticulationMapper to the controller lane and showing the various available articulations like in Cubase to draw blocks for how long an articulation lasts. Or have the possibility to select a note, click onto an articulation and the articulation lane shows a symbol that indicates the articulation and when moving the note the articulation (+symbol) move together with the note. Many possibilities to discuss for integration, even when Reaticulate serves as the base to expand on.

@mabian true. Actually way more people have been complaining about the take system so surely it is a big thing. Perhaps they are just on a roll and tackle now one big thing after the other

[_Stevie_]

Sorry, to sound negative, but I don't see this coming any time, soon.
The devs don't do a lot of MIDI, I think that is the main issue, here.
So it doesn't have priority.

[krahosk]

Originally Posted by _Stevie_

Sorry, to sound negative, but I don't see this coming any time, soon.
The devs don't do a lot of MIDI, I think that is the main issue, here.
So it doesn't have priority.

And then there was that huge scoring feature that happened one day in Reaper. I still believe it's possible.

[_Stevie_]

True, true! Well definitely crossing my fingers, just not getting my hopes too high.

[Phazma]

I think rather than rush something they will wait until they feel like dedicating more time to it and then it will be integrated once for all with perfection and (in usual Reaper fashion) allowing all kinds of workflows.

[mozart999uk]

Just like to add that I think Tack's work is amazing but for me, a native version would be better....

[krahosk]

VI Forum Topic:
"I would like to hear from others about what they WISH the DAW's could do better in any way related to articulation management. Dream big."

https://vi-control.net/community/thr.../#post-4751167

[Audio_Birdi]

Hoping that after the ReaSurroundPan Reaper 6.30 update (which is when I'm guessing it will be released). I hope we finally have a preliminary look at a Native version for an Articulation Mapper, 3.5 years later after the original!

[mabian]

Originally Posted by Audio_Birdi

Hoping that after the ReaSurroundPan Reaper 6.30 update (which is when I'm guessing it will be released). I hope we finally have a preliminary look at a Native version for an Articulation Mapper, 3.5 years later after the original!

Agreed, this one has been in the waiting room for too long!

- Mario

[Kabraxis]

This weekend I explored other DAWs in terms of MIDI composing, and although some of them offer very good Articulation managers, none of them are coming close to Reaper in other features.

Tried Studio One, Nuendo and Logic so far, and Nuendo has the most grounded one.

I'd rather use Reaper and struggle and wrestle with articulations than switching to one of them. Reaticulate helps a bit, but editing a text file every time I need a change is kinda tedious.

[mozart999uk]

Originally Posted by Kabraxis

This weekend I explored other DAWs in terms of MIDI composing, and although some of them offer very good Articulation managers, none of them are coming close to Reaper in other features.

Tried Studio One, Nuendo and Logic so far, and Nuendo has the most grounded one.

I'd rather use Reaper and struggle and wrestle with articulations than switching to one of them. Reaticulate helps a bit, but editing a text file every time I need a change is kinda tedious.

I think Tack has plans to create a more visual editor at some point..... The thing that slows me down is getting the note numbers right :-)

[Phazma]

Originally Posted by mozart999uk

I think Tack has plans to create a more visual editor at some point..

I am very eagerly waiting for that to finally happen!

[Kabraxis]

Originally Posted by mozart999uk

I think Tack has plans to create a more visual editor at some point..... The thing that slows me down is getting the note numbers right :-)

Yeah, I know about that. Yet it's not here, so I can't use it. Not to blame Tack, he's doing a fantastic job for free, so I can't complain if a visual editor doesn't ever arrive, or Tack decides it's enough already.

[_Stevie_]

I think what all makes this a bit complex is that he needs to introduce a new way to handle articulations internally. So that needs to happen first, before the GUI editor can be implemented.
I wish we could do anything to make his work easier. But I guess Tack would approach us, if that was possible in any way.

[tack]

Originally Posted by Kabraxis

or Tack decides it's enough already.

Definitely not enough already. Soooo many ideas and improvements I want to make. It's just down to lack of free time (and sometimes energy), as it always is.

And I confess to my share of squirrel moments. Currently I am ripping out the underlying GUI library from Reaticulate and I've refactored it extensively, documented the bejesus out of it, and my plan is to release it as a standalone project. I have another 20-30 or so hours left on that (effort not duration) before I can get something out the door and return my focus to Reaticulate itself.

Originally Posted by _Stevie_

I wish we could do anything to make his work easier. But I guess Tack would approach us, if that was possible in any way.

If you could make the pandemic go away, that'd be much appreciated. Since WFH began I have somehow been working my day job far more than when I'd go to the office every day.

[_Stevie_]

So looking forward to all of this, keep it up Jason!

[asai]

I've mentioned this before, but could there possibly be any support from Justin and schwa? It would be a great team to put this all together, and probably would be able to knock it out in a fraction of the time it's taking Tack to do this.

[Audio_Birdi]

Originally Posted by pcartwright

Just a little teaser. This is a personal project, and I don't know how well it will fit into others' workflows. Still, I'll post a version soon-ish if folks would like to give it a test.

Are there any updates to Carticulate elsewhere on the forum that I've missed potentially? Would enjoy trying it out and testing it!

[KMJoshi]

I wonder what has happened to this plan. It seems like the developers were working on it all the way back in 2016!?

[Vagalume]

Yep, Radio silence for 5 years. However they didn't say anything about abandoning Articulation Mapper so I guess they are still working hard on it.

[Audio_Birdi]

Originally Posted by Vagalume

Yep, Radio silence for 5 years. However they didn't say anything about abandoning Articulation Mapper so I guess they are still working hard on it.

I hope it's being worked-on still too, hoping for a nice surprise in 2022 finally too!

Wonder what happed to Carticulate too aha!

[KMJoshi]

Originally Posted by Vagalume

Yep, Radio silence for 5 years. However they didn't say anything about abandoning Articulation Mapper so I guess they are still working hard on it.

Hope so! I'm sure it's a difficult feature to implement, hence the silence. But it would be really helpful for everyone using virtual acoustic instruments.

[KMJoshi]

Originally Posted by Audio_Birdi

I hope it's being worked-on still too, hoping for a nice surprise in 2022 finally too!

A wonderful dream. 😄

[ceanganb]

Still the only thing that breaks my heart in Eeaperland...

[tack]

Originally Posted by ceanganb

Still the only thing that breaks my heart in Eeaperland...

I mean, while native articulation maps would certainly be nice, I'd have thought Reaticulate would at least spare us from heartbreak.

[ceanganb]

Originally Posted by tack

I mean, while native articulation maps would certainly be nice, I'd have thought Reaticulate would at least spare us from heartbreak.

Rearticulate is great, please, dont get me wrong.

But the lack of support for dynamics / hairpins still pushes me on Cubase.

[norbury brook]

Originally Posted by tack

I mean, while native articulation maps would certainly be nice, I'd have thought Reaticulate would at least spare us from heartbreak.

I'm loving it now I've set up templates it's all really working well.

as an aside, someone mentioned a while back wondering if the Reaper Dev's could hook up with the devs of Musescore. It's a free open source notation software that's really good.

this would be a great upgrade to the current score editor.

M

[mozart999uk]

Some people have mentioned cubase for its articulation system. I want to mention that one of the main reasons i moved from cubase was the articulation system "expression maps". I found it to be sooooo unreliable and the devs, instead of investigating just flat out disagreed. I wasn't alone in my frustration

[ceanganb]

Originally Posted by mozart999uk

Some people have mentioned cubase for its articulation system. I want to mention that one of the main reasons i moved from cubase was the articulation system "expression maps". I found it to be sooooo unreliable and the devs, instead of investigating just flat out disagreed. I wasn't alone in my frustration

Although it's not perfect, my friend, I kindly disagree.
The concept and the functioning works very fine, to me at least.

[tack]

Originally Posted by ceanganb

But the lack of support for dynamics / hairpins still pushes me on Cubase.

Fair enough. Reaticulate could in theory support dynamics notation (it would be a bit of a hybrid system, using Program Change for articulation control, but otherwise respecting notation for dynamics), but I think for hairpins to be really useful REAPER itself needs some improvement in this area: AFAICT you can't attach dynamic instructions to either end of the hairpin as part of a single event.

The starting point would technically work, because even though it's independent from the hairpin it would at least be observable by Reaticulate during playback, but the target isn't known until we get there, meaning it can't translate the hairpin into a meaningful CC curve.

That's but one obstacle in using REAPER's notation/text events for articulation control.

[_Stevie_]

Originally Posted by mozart999uk

Some people have mentioned cubase for its articulation system. I want to mention that one of the main reasons i moved from cubase was the articulation system "expression maps". I found it to be sooooo unreliable and the devs, instead of investigating just flat out disagreed. I wasn't alone in my frustration

SO MUCH THIS!!! Expression maps have basically been abandoned from Steinberg. There hasn't been any significant change for 8 years.

[mozart999uk]

One of the differences for me is tack's willingness to develop his script despite it not being his day job.

Cubase devs on the other hand....

[_Stevie_]

🤣Very true! And thanks again, Jason, for doing this!

[Phazma]

Fact is, Reaper is one of the few major DAWs that doesn't have a native articulation system and this has its limits. If the devs decided to integrate Reaticulate and update/implement a few features to facilitate it, we would have a very valid articulation system. Whether it is better or worse than other DAW's solutions is up to the individual user's workflow preferences, but I am sure if such an integration happens both tack and the devs would do their best to accommodate as many user preferences as possible and perhaps even support multiple approaches to articulation management via settings/options/preferences (unlike other DAWs).

[_Stevie_]

The main issue is, that the devs would need to gather a lot of information in order to build an articulation system, since this is one of the areas the devs don't use personally.
And I'm unsure if the devs would go that route. To me it looked like they gave up 5 years ago, because
they hadn't thought of every feature. Glad to be proven wrong, though

[ceanganb]

Originally Posted by Phazma

Fact is, Reaper is one of the few major DAWs that doesn't have a native articulation system and this has its limits. If the devs decided to integrate Reaticulate and update/implement a few features to facilitate it, we would have a very valid articulation system. Whether it is better or worse than other DAW's solutions is up to the individual user's workflow preferences, but I am sure if such an integration happens both tack and the devs would do their best to accommodate as many user preferences as possible and perhaps even support multiple approaches to articulation management via settings/options/preferences (unlike other DAWs).

Well, that's it.
I am not comparing tack to Cubase devs at all, neither Cubase to Reaper as a whole.

And, yes, tack's job is phenomenal...