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Old 04-29-2021, 11:40 PM   #41
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Can we expect something similar to "swipe comping" under "Media Item Lanes", or did I get my hopes up too early?
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Old 04-29-2021, 11:45 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Nice, thank you!

First thoughts:
- could it maybe auto-scroll when dragging to upper/lower boundary?


- I can drag a note row below (0), intended?


- When having reordered note rows, switching to Piano roll view and back to named notes view, reordering seems lost, isn't that a bit dangerous perhaps (risk of losing the reordering when not being careful...)?
Good idea re: auto scrolling.
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Old 04-30-2021, 01:02 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
..please add an option to show all hidden notes, too (bringing us back to default state). Also an option to reset note order would be nice. Add actions for both, too.
Hiding of stuff should work with two different things:

(1) a particular note has a hidden flag / does not have a hidden flag
(2) all notes that are flagged hidden are shown / not shown

In this case, I can hide all notes that are unnecessary at the moment (1). Then when the need arise, I temporarily reveal all notes (2), unhide those that I need to add to the visible notes (1) and then unreveal notes back to the default hidden visibility (2).

The nomeclature should be properly chosen, well searchable, this is a part of UX (quite difficult TBH) . And then of course a standard combination of set/toggle actions, with unifying toggles.

-Set note hidden
-Set note unhidden
-Toggle note hidden

-Set temporal visibility of hidden notes on
-Set temporal visibility of hidden notes off
-Toggle temporal visibility of hidden notes

And then reset actions for (1):

-Set all notes unhidden
-Set all notes hidden
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Old 04-30-2021, 01:45 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by denmla View Post
Theese 2 still not working for Shift modifier while (at the same time) working for Ctrl modifier:




Any hope?
Sorry not to be helpful but they're working for me. As they're not displayed in the default drop-down list, it was a two-stage process to add the actions via the full action list, using 'set default mouse modifier to 'Add items... etc''.
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Old 04-30-2021, 04:28 AM   #45
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here we are with another case where "track-based MIDI" seems to make more sense (from a user perspective who is unaware of the underlying history/reasons why things are how they are) than REAPER's "item/editor-based MIDI," in which MIDI editors view/attempt to edit a project's MIDI content through the lens of a single MIDI take at a time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n997
In "One MIDI editor per project" view (which I always use) I'd expect notes to be shown in custom order, also when viewing multiple items across tracks.
i'd expect the opposite, where the custom order only appears on the track on which the note order was changed (drum vsti track, but not bass vsti track) -- even if i'm viewing MIDI from multiple items across tracks.

unless this can be a per-track setting, it might really come down to users having to choose which they want in prefs -- open all project MIDI, or view custom note order.
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Old 04-30-2021, 06:05 AM   #46
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i'd expect the opposite, where the custom order only appears on the track on which the note order was changed (drum vsti track, but not bass vsti track) -- even if i'm viewing MIDI from multiple items across tracks.

unless this can be a per-track setting, it might really come down to users having to choose which they want in prefs -- open all project MIDI, or view custom note order.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, I suspect we mean the same thing, actually!


That is:

- reordered notes on drum track are always shown as reordered
- chromatic notes on bass track are always shown as chromatic

Which order is shown on the piano pattern/named notes list in MIDI Editor, depends on which track is selected for input of MIDI events.

So if bass track is selected for note input in MIDI Editor's Track List, then normal chromatic piano roll is shown on the left.

But if drum track has the "arrow bending down" symbol, then that track's reordered note list is shown on the left.


So, as the target track for input in MIDI Editor changes, all that changes visually is the piano key pattern / note list on the left - while actual MIDI notes remain where they are, either reordered or chromatic, depending on each track's setting.
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Old 04-30-2021, 06:05 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by nofish View Post
v6.28+dev0429 - April 29 2021

* Includes feature branch: MIDI editor note reordering
+ MIDI editor: add custom note order/visiblity mode (ctrl+drag note key in named notes view)
+ MIDI editor: import/export of note names includes custom-view ordering information if set
Thank you for the note name love. Would be neat to have equivalent user-friendliness features to CC names, access and visiblity too.
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Old 04-30-2021, 06:14 AM   #48
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Use Bug reports forum. (as you suggest to others)
I reported it in dev0423 thread, no response. Since it was added in this dev cycle, it's a valid reminder and request for additional info on why it's not working if the changelog said it was implemented!
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Old 04-30-2021, 06:16 AM   #49
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I disagree. It's very valuable without autoscroll, and if that's what "makes or breaks" this, I vote +infinity over you.
With that line of thinking there's really no hope for any sort of decent UX in Reaper ever...
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Old 04-30-2021, 06:52 AM   #50
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It should totally auto-scroll, just not too fast or slow. That said, if you use the mousewheel modifier combo to zoom out while dragging, that seems to work mid-drag.

Question (at work and can't test): if this is designed to work on a per item (versus per-track) basis, then does that mean we can't include this in track templates with no items? I'd want to save the note order into my BFD track templates. I'd expect this to be a very common (if not one of the most common) use cases.
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Old 04-30-2021, 07:54 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Question (at work and can't test): if this is designed to work on a per item (versus per-track) basis, then does that mean we can't include this in track templates with no items? I'd want to save the note order into my BFD track templates. I'd expect this to be a very common (if not one of the most common) use cases.
Looking at the saved .rpp in a text editor it looks like currently it works on per item basis.
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Old 04-30-2021, 08:23 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I reported it in dev0423 thread, no response. Since it was added in this dev cycle, it's a valid reminder and request for additional info on why it's not working if the changelog said it was implemented!
Ah sorry, I thought it was added in 6.28.
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Old 04-30-2021, 08:36 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Feature request regarding note hide/show: In the context menu when we Ctrl+click a note row, please add an option to show all hidden notes, too (bringing us back to default state). Also an option to reset note order would be nice. Add actions for both, too.

Brilliant feature, finally will be able to have proper drum maps!
If you want to go to default state you can just go back to the non-custom view, and edit from there...
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Old 04-30-2021, 08:51 AM   #54
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Ha I guess, but a courtesy function would make sense still, UX-wise
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Old 04-30-2021, 09:05 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by nofish View Post
Looking at the saved .rpp in a text editor it looks like currently it works on per item basis.
A trick I've used with templates that seems to work is to create a MIDI item with the properties you're wanting (note names etc), delete the item, save template with the "including items" option turned on. For some reason it will save (at least) note names without having to have an empty item in the track.

Not sure if this works with reordering notes.
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Old 04-30-2021, 09:43 AM   #56
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I'd personally advocate strongly for:

1) Note name order should be per-track

2) Note name order should also be saved with Track Templates

...I feel like that covers 95% of the expected use cases and how most users would expect something like this to function. The tricky bit is: what do you do when viewing MIDI across multiple tracks, and the answer is either...

1) Show note order on origin track or

2) Force chromatic note order if multiple tracks being viewed at once*

*The one I'd think makes the most the most sense to me, but not something I'd begrudge anybody for wanting to work differently since I mostly tend to edit MIDI one track at a time and would mostly use custom note orders with drum tracks.

But if I were viewing a drum performance along with a MIDI bass part, it just wouldn't compute in my brain if the bass notes were out of order. I'd be confused about what chord it was supposed to be providing tonality for. Example: "why is that bass note dropping, am I editing the drums on the verse or chorus, maybe I'm in the wrong section! Oops. Notes re-ordered."
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:19 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I'd personally advocate strongly for:

1) Note name order should be per-track

2) Note name order should also be saved with Track Templates
Agreed to both.
To 1), that's how it works in that other DAW I used in my previous life iirc.
There you can set a drum map per track (incl. custom row order) and if set every MIDI item on that track then displays in that mode.
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:39 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
The tricky bit is: what do you do when viewing MIDI across multiple tracks, and the answer is either...

1) Show note order on origin track or

2) Force chromatic note order if multiple tracks being viewed at once*
There's also 3) utilise the existing methodology we have in the track list, so perhaps inherit from the target track as chosen in the track list.
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Old 04-30-2021, 10:51 AM   #59
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^^^^^ That sounds good to me.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:17 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I'd personally advocate strongly for:

1) Note name order should be per-track

2) Note name order should also be saved with Track Templates

...I feel like that covers 95% of the expected use cases and how most users would expect something like this to function. The tricky bit is: what do you do when viewing MIDI across multiple tracks, and the answer is either...

1) Show note order on origin track or

2) Force chromatic note order if multiple tracks being viewed at once*

*The one I'd think makes the most the most sense to me, but not something I'd begrudge anybody for wanting to work differently since I mostly tend to edit MIDI one track at a time and would mostly use custom note orders with drum tracks.

But if I were viewing a drum performance along with a MIDI bass part, it just wouldn't compute in my brain if the bass notes were out of order. I'd be confused about what chord it was supposed to be providing tonality for. Example: "why is that bass note dropping, am I editing the drums on the verse or chorus, maybe I'm in the wrong section! Oops. Notes re-ordered."

I tend to use 2 or more drum programs at the same time. I would not need to use the custom mapping for keyboards of course. What about having it custom for only drum map setting and only chromatic for the key map? Then you could have some options for people that use more than one drum program at a time.
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Old 04-30-2021, 11:23 AM   #61
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There's also 3) utilise the existing methodology we have in the track list, so perhaps inherit from the target track as chosen in the track list.
I honestly would not complain if it worked that way.
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Old 04-30-2021, 01:37 PM   #62
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With that line of thinking there's really no hope for any sort of decent UX in Reaper ever...
Completely agreed.
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Old 04-30-2021, 02:31 PM   #63
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As this section is getting some work due to note re-ordering, at some point could we get configurable mouse modifiers for the note-name/piano keys section of the MIDI editor? I find some of the current mouse choices...odd. Would love to be able to customize this.

Current state (using Drum Map mode):

Left Click: audition note
Ctrl+Left Click: open menu

Right click: audition note + Select all events in this note
Ctrl+Right Click: same as left click
Shift+Right Click: audition note + add to selection

Double click: nothing that I can tell
Double right-click: Rename (I'd expect standard double-click)
Ctrl+Drag - reorder notes

If I could, I'd probably change these modifiers to:

Left Click: audition note
Shift+Click: audition note + select all events in this note
Ctrl+Click: Click: audition note + add to selection

Right Click: Open menu

Double-Click: Rename note
Ctrl+Drag: Reorder notes

...I agree with ED that having that menu pop open some note order/name related items makes sense. In addition to the existing "hide note row", add things like "Restore default note order," and "Restore default note name," etc. I'd think new users would hope/expect to find things like that in a menu.

Last edited by Funkybot; 04-30-2021 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 04-30-2021, 03:33 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
In addition to the existing "hide note row", add things like "Restore default note order," and "Restore default note name," etc. I'd think new users would hope/expect to find things like that in a menu.
Totally makes sense, yep.
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Old 04-30-2021, 04:29 PM   #65
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With that line of thinking there's really no hope for any sort of decent UX in Reaper ever...


Oh wait, look what's in the next dev build: "autoscroll when reordering note rows". Yay, now Reaper's UX is perfect!
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Old 04-30-2021, 04:38 PM   #66
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Every little thing counts and builds the whole picture... The importance of UX shouldn't be shrugged off.
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Old 04-30-2021, 06:35 PM   #67
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Every little thing counts and builds the whole picture... The importance of UX shouldn't be shrugged off.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Old 04-30-2021, 08:13 PM   #68
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Found an issue/bug that when if I click the Piano Roll and then go back to Named notes, all of my note moves/reordering are gone and reset to default. If I try to load my custom map (note names from file) it does not put them back to where I had them when I moved them.

Luckily I had saved the project to I just closed and reopened it and they were back, but that shouldn't be.

Thanks for the auto scroll for moving the note names BTW
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Old 05-01-2021, 02:06 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
With that line of thinking there's really no hope for any sort of decent UX in Reaper ever...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
The importance of UX shouldn't be shrugged off.
You see the gap between presenting your own point of view as catastrophic and repackaging his point of view as trivial? That's how politicians behave, and the opposite of creative collaborators behave.
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Old 05-01-2021, 03:17 AM   #70
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^^
He just said his opinion what's wrong with that? And honestly as another user i agree with that. Is there some sort of police in the forum or what? If the devs decide to follow ones suggestion more than another user, why to blame him?

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Old 05-01-2021, 03:27 AM   #71
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^^
He just said his opinion what's wrong with that? And honestly as another user i agree with that. Is there some sort of police in the forum or what? If the devs decide to follow ones suggestion more than another user, why to blame him?
Because he's entitled to express his opinions just like you, me and Evildragon?

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Old 05-01-2021, 03:36 AM   #72
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Because he's entitled to express his opinions just like you, me and Evildragon?

- Mario
Yes i totally agree that anyone is free to tell his opinion about something relative to the pre-release. But when someone points a user personally about the way he expressed his suggestion, it doesn't make sense to me. In the end the devs are the ones who will decide what to implement.
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Old 05-01-2021, 03:38 AM   #73
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You misunderstand; he is rubbishing another user's opinion. I think he shouldn't.
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Old 05-01-2021, 04:12 AM   #74
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I'm anti-UX, I guess. That's probably the reason I disagreed with Ed.
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Old 05-01-2021, 04:18 AM   #75
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I'm anti-UX, I guess. That's probably the reason I disagreed with Ed.
UX-phobia is a bad thing. You should not be afraid of UX.
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Old 05-01-2021, 04:19 AM   #76
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To be anti it, would you need to know its correct meaning? Because if you do you're already ahead of most of the internet
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Old 05-01-2021, 04:25 AM   #77
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I'm anti-UX, I guess. That's probably the reason I disagreed with Ed.
Ha I don't think so But I think this was just a disagreement between you and ED as you said.
Maybe an option could solve both needs.. Anyway Peace
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:15 AM   #78
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You misunderstand; he is rubbishing another user's opinion. I think he shouldn't.
He rubbished mine, too. He shouldn't do it either, then.
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:37 AM   #79
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He rubbished mine, too. He shouldn't do it either, then.
No, he just semi-disagreed, and quite respectfully:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesPeters View Post
I disagree. It's very valuable without autoscroll, and if that's what "makes or breaks" this, I vote +infinity over you.

But it would be nice if it also auto-scrolled.
Also, he's completely correct. He didn't mention that what you said is objectively nonsense, which it is. Any added functionality has value if even only a single person ever uses it.

Everyone wants things to be better, and features to be more refined, and we're all sure we're right in our own heads. But we're not, we can't be, and if you can't see that then you should just pretend that you do.
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Old 05-01-2021, 06:55 AM   #80
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Any added functionality has value if even only a single person ever uses it.
You say it's better to implement a feature for one than for lots?
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