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Old 10-23-2020, 09:40 AM   #81
thermos
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Originally Posted by Magicbuss View Post
To be fair Thermos' issues with Reaper are legit and have been voiced elsewhere. Although I don't understand his gripe with dual mono. If I want to affect a stereo track or submix as dual mono I just use a plugin that has dual mono capability. I must be missing something on that one.

The "Reaper isn't pro because it doesn't come with a bunch of drum loops (instruments and samples too)" was brought up later in the thread as a reason some users might be turned away. I'm sure that may be true for some aspiring beat producers. But they are way more likely to be drawn to Abelton, FL studio, and Logic already. As you pointed out those folks probably aren't using Pro tools either. I pointed out that all that stuff is readily available for free and coupled with a $60 license for reaper you can get WAY more for way less than with a content loaded DAW like logic but Reaper's not "turnkey".

Choice is good. No DAW is one size fits all.
What you are missing is that other DAWs have the "dual mono" feature. Why is this important?

As I said, I rarely if ever link compressor channels on a stereo channel. Most pros I know work this way. I'd say 90% of the compressor plugins I currently own have no option to unlink the sides from the front panel. That means I am 90% more likely to never use these plugins in reaper simply because they waste my time. 90% of mastered releases you listen to probably have unlinked sides on the compressor.

"No DAW is one size fits all." This is what I'm arguing against. Why doesn't one DAW fit all? If Reaper allows users to code their own features that would inherently make it flexible enough to include those features. And in a lot of cases users do code these features, which might get broken in updates (all of the IUA stuff apparently that should be standard). If it is supposed to be the Utopia of DAWs, the developer should be open to adding those features.

I'm saying all this because Reaper IS the utopia of DAWs. I'm trying to argue for making utopia better and more highly populated.

Edit: also the front page of the Reaper site says "VOTE | Please wear a mask | Thank you." That literally wanted me to re-engage in this conversation because Reaper and Justin are so fundamentally awesome.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:47 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Pink Wool View Post
Has there ever been a poll here on the forums on how many users consider themselves "pro"? I know that the forum isn't everyone using Reaper (I would think maybe 20%, if that!) but it would be nice to know.

I also want to add that many of the features that people seem to want or demand to be added to Reaper, stem from the usage of previous DAW's. So what made these people move away from that daw in the first place? Now THAT would be interesting to know!

Again, I'm including myself in this. I came from using Cubase and for the longest time tried making Reaper act like Cubase. Then I actually went back to Cubase and remembered why I moved away from it in the first place! And now I'm learning to use Reaper the Reaper way. Because that's what Reaper does best! And the scripters here do an AMAZING job helping people to use the workflow they're used to, or wanna use.

But I think it's unfair to DEMAND Reaper to be like other DAW's. Sure, many of us want new features added. But there's two people who make the decisions on what gets implemented. And they've been more than GENEROUS with their time. Perhaps that shouldn't be taken for granted?
Pro is a shifty term yes. I make 100% of my money from music, and have since I entered the workplace. It is NOT a value judgement at ALL, I think non-pros can do the same level or higher quality of work in every aspect of art. I'm saying what I glean from talking to people who make 100% of their money from music, and what lack of features they can work around and what they actually can't.

"And the scripters here do an AMAZING job helping people to use the workflow they're used to, or wanna use." Exactly. Include these features that script writers slave so hard over instead of patching them every time there is an update for no compensation.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:48 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Or two "normal" plugins "in parallel" via pin routing in a "normal" (two channel) track.
-Michael
That's how I do it currently. More than 2x the moves because you have to change the comp threshold on 2 channels separately and you can't can't get the reduction amount by feel anymore. So really, there is no musical work around except linking them all via actions that take 1,000,000 years.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:50 AM   #84
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I'm not sure if I understand the multi-edit groups thing you're referring to. I just select any number of tracks, group them with Alt+G ( and then I can edit all of them no problem. I do this for drums, Bass DI + reamps, Guitars + reamps, multiple piano tracks, etc etc.

But holy crap playlists would be great! I actually think the way that PT does playlists is kinda wonky and not intuitive. Like if you have a track with 3 playlists below it, and you wanna comp them together, its a huge pain. But if you could do a type of Playlist and Lanes Inception, that would be great! Basically we need a quick way of saving a track in its original form before messing around with it, so we can go back when we screw something up or quickly compare it to something else. Duplicating a track and muting it makes the project way too messy. You end up losing your place. And we need a way visual way to see it and completely or partially drop it in or out of the active track
I do this too. But what I'm specifically asking for is PT/DP/Logic style group editing where you have edit "groups." IE the drums are all a group that can be edited and toggled off, and the bass separately. Etc.

If I am missing something I would be very happy to put my foot in my mouth.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:51 AM   #85
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When you group tracks, it does not group the items in those tracks. You have to use SWS for that and it only works for items that are recorded at the same time. There is also no sub-grouping.
Yeah this is what I thought. I honestly have no idea how people could be so stoked about seeing eq curves in the edit window but this hasn't been included since day 1. Saying this out of love.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:53 AM   #86
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They're tools. And like any professional, you need many to include in your toolbox. My hammer is terrible for driving screws and my drill is a pretty bad straight edge.

When I shoot my videos, I need to use a screen capture program. REAPER doesn't capture the screen. So I use another program for that. Then I go back to REAPER for other things, back to another program for some things and back to REAPER again.

It would be great if REAPER could also make my coffee and my lunch.

Create a toolbox. Get stuff done.
Sorry Kenny, but this is a deeply disingenuous argument. In your analogy - the DAW would not be the tool, it would be the toolbox, and the features/plugins would be the tools. We are suggesting we would like our toolbox to contain a couple more tools, and your suggestion is 'well that's because you don't use multiple toolboxes - get a couple more'. We are not talking about screen capture here or making coffee, we are talking about functions that are WELL within the remit of a professional DAW. I think Reaper's locking is broken and would like that working properly (I'm sure you've seen the thread). How would owning another DAW with proper, working locking, help me with this problem?

If you were working on a mix in Reaper and realised that you needed proper post fader FX, or a playlist/track versions feature, or locking that actually protects against splitting/region movement, then you would say the answer is to export the entire the mix to another DAW just for that feature, then export it back when done?!

I'm sorry but that's just crazy. I don't know a single pro who would work that way, unless they were forced to. I'm just imagining asking on the Steinberg forum for, say, folders that are also busses (like in Reaper), and then having people's professional, genuine response being 'well just use Reaper or S1 when you need to bus something, then bounce all the tracks individually and import them back to Cubase'.

They'd be laughed off of the forum, and rightfully so.
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:53 AM   #87
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I'm going to have to disagree with that. Not that there aren't some features "missing" but that there's any kind of "standard in the industry".

It's the wild west. I can list feature after feature that is a part of Pro Tools that isn't in Logic. Or that's in Studio One, that isn't in Pro Tools. Or that's in REAPER that isn't in any of the others.

They're tools. And like any professional, you need many to include in your toolbox. My hammer is terrible for driving screws and my drill is a pretty bad straight edge.

When I shoot my videos, I need to use a screen capture program. REAPER doesn't capture the screen. So I use another program for that. Then I go back to REAPER for other things, back to another program for some things and back to REAPER again.

It would be great if REAPER could also make my coffee and my lunch.

Create a toolbox. Get stuff done.
Kenny you are a godsend to the community. I am just trying to point out that this toolbox needs nails. Best hammer in the world bar none. Every time I have requested nails on this board I have been met with "why don't you use screws instead? They are more flexible and useful."
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Old 10-23-2020, 09:56 AM   #88
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And what I'm saying is that there's NO industry standard. Just because a few other DAWs do things one way, doesn't mean REAPER has to copy it.

As I explained, every DAW is a tool. They all do some things better than others. There's no way to make one that solves every problem in the way you prefer. I would argue that REAPER comes the closest because you can create custom actions and scripts etc.

But Logic is still better for certain things. Pro Tools is better for certain things. Studio One is better for certain things.

Pick one, and deal with it. Or pick a few and bounce around. I still use Logic once in a while and I work for REAPER.
PT is the industry standard, period. Walk into any tracking studio that has bands going through it, 95% of the time it's pro tools. I say this as a musician that tours 100-200 days a year.
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Old 10-23-2020, 11:37 AM   #89
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Pretty much the exact thing you and Kenny are telling people not to do. This, however, was Schwa's response to that.
That Mosaic Music video is perhaps the finest bit of user feedback I have seen, on any product I have ever worked on. Detailed, comprehensive, reasoned and hitting all the corner cases he could foresee. And utterly convincing for it. If your takeaway from that is 'he mentions other DAWs' then, well, yes that is true and, as I said, doing so can be very useful. So, to be clear, I'm not telling people not to do that. I'm recommending that not be all that they do, though if you want to then please of course feel free, consider me merely offering what guidance I can.
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Old 10-23-2020, 12:04 PM   #90
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\If your takeaway from that is 'he mentions other DAWs' then, well, yes that is true and, as I said, doing so can be very useful. So, to be clear, I'm not telling people not to do that. I'm recommending that not be all that they do, though if you want to then please of course feel free, consider me merely offering what guidance I can.
That wasn't my take. Simply that using DAW "X" to provide an example doesn't make the argument irrelevant or all about DAW X. Just as I'm sure you offering guidance is not intended to take OP's arguments off-topic.
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Old 10-23-2020, 01:49 PM   #91
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After rereading this thread and reconsidering my previous remarks I think I owe it to the OP to more carefully reiterate what I think was bothering me.

I think it's merely the title. I think if the title had simply said "here are some issues I think could be better in reaper and what do other people think" rather than "I'm leaving reaper and here's my complaint list" so to speak I would've reacted differently.

This is not the OP's fault. There are others that have come before him that have left me feeling as though they were crying out for attention and/or just trolls for another platform. I think perhaps this left me with some preconceived notions about the purpose of this dialogue that were inaccurate.

There is nothing wrong of course with discussing ways to make Reaper better, which is kind of what this thread has turned into. And there have been many thoughtful and educated comments by experienced professionals that deserve to be heard by both the developers and the reaper community at large.

So my apologies to the OP for my knee-jerk reaction to the thread's title which probably colored my perception of their actual intent from the start. I will now retreat back into my glass house and stop throwing rocks.
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Old 10-23-2020, 10:43 PM   #92
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After rereading this thread and reconsidering my previous remarks I think I owe it to the OP to more carefully reiterate what I think was bothering me.

I think it's merely the title. I think if the title had simply said "here are some issues I think could be better in reaper and what do other people think" rather than "I'm leaving reaper and here's my complaint list" so to speak I would've reacted differently.

This is not the OP's fault. There are others that have come before him that have left me feeling as though they were crying out for attention and/or just trolls for another platform. I think perhaps this left me with some preconceived notions about the purpose of this dialogue that were inaccurate.

There is nothing wrong of course with discussing ways to make Reaper better, which is kind of what this thread has turned into. And there have been many thoughtful and educated comments by experienced professionals that deserve to be heard by both the developers and the reaper community at large.

So my apologies to the OP for my knee-jerk reaction to the thread's title which probably colored my perception of their actual intent from the start. I will now retreat back into my glass house and stop throwing rocks.

Hear hear!
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Old 10-24-2020, 12:59 AM   #93
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PT is the industry standard, period. Walk into any tracking studio that has bands going through it, 95% of the time it's pro tools. I say this as a musician that tours 100-200 days a year.


FWIW. Times have been changing rapidly.

I actually used an alpha version of Pro Tools way back in the eighties, long before it was actually launched, & was blown away by the idea of being able to edit so easily.
In my somewhat limited experience of the current version of PT, this is still the standout fdeature of Pro Tools.

Hilariously, my more recent forays into studios at a pro level have been on 2" 24 track tape, which then got routed to either Pro Tools or Logic Pro, with Reaper also being available if required.

Similar applies to the studio in Nashville where my mixing is done & according to the manager there, this is a trend that is spreading quickly in his area, although equally he did say that the number of major pro studios still in business is shrinking rapidly throughout the USA. Scary stuff, but there again the whole music industry is undergoing some massive issues world-wide right now.

Anyway, that has little to do with your post - just thought it was worth mentioning to put everything into a more current perspective.
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Old 10-24-2020, 05:59 AM   #94
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Hilariously, my more recent forays into studios at a pro level have been on 2" 24 track tape,
which then got routed to either Pro Tools or Logic Pro, with Reaper also being available
if required.
That is amazing! In the end it means that there is still no really working tape emulation.
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:12 AM   #95
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I don't think you can glean that. Big tape machines look awesome and impress clients. Doesn't mean the emulations don't nail it
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Old 10-24-2020, 10:21 AM   #96
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As another pro user, I completely agree with everything on this list and feel handcuffed in Reaper without them. While there are some workarounds for the above - and a few hero scripters - the workarounds pale in comparison to implementation in other DAWs. I very much hope they are seriously looked at by the devs in the future.
I love reaper, it’s amazing. I know it’s frustrating when the few things are weird. For me my biggest issue is the cross fade at edit spots, I can never seem to trust it. Before printing I have to audition every splice. These kind of issues are tiny for me. If you are pro, those are all non issues because you just use outboard. And while I love editing in PT, who needs insane editing, a pro makes sure it’s recorded right. Or if you really want 100% ITB for recall then you already sacrificing quality, so why would these little items bother me or you? Make a template, hide the tracks. Use compressors that un-link. Logic has terrible things! PT has super terrible things!

Last edited by otb; 10-24-2020 at 10:29 AM.
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Old 10-24-2020, 10:28 AM   #97
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Most "Pro Studios" only use PT's because of payoffs (If you do not think this happens, then you are living under a rock) to people in the position of choosing what DAW they use. If you are wanting to work with a Major Pro Studio, then it's best to use and learn PT.

The word "Standard" is miss applied in this thread,
A quote from "https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-industry-standard-digital-audio-workstation-DAW-for-rock-pop-recordings-in-2017-and-why-is-it-the-industry-standard"

(While ProTools is undeniably the “standard” in that it’s most common in recording studios, you might find that musicians using DAWs in their project studios to actually compose music – as opposed to just recording it – may be less than unanimous in their choice of DAW.).

A Professional should have many tools, that includes different DAW's as well to get the job done.

For a Carpenter to make the Great piece of furniture, does not require the the best tool (No one tool will do the job), he uses what ever tool needed to make it. Learn to use what you have and buy what you need to make the best music you can.

Musicians will go to the best Studio/Engineer/Producer to have their album done, they are not concerned about the DAW that is used.

Of all the great music that I have heard, I have NEVER wondered what DAW and other tools it was done with, but I have looked into where and who produced it.

You need to get the tools that will help you get things done. If its not Reaper, then so be it.

Use what ever DAW that does what you want. To complain about what a DAW does not do, is just a waste of time. Use what is available now and do your work. I don't know of anyone that will just put on hold their work until the tools that they want are available. Don't complain, just make music.

It it's a Feature request, no need to say that "X" DAW has it.



Robert

Last edited by rncwalker; 10-24-2020 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 10-24-2020, 10:38 AM   #98
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I realize now I saw the first post and got triggered to respond, because he’s ditching Reaper over these things. Which to me are not anywhere close to why I’d choose PTHD in a pro situation. Improving features are always welcome, not sure why those are the deal breakers lol
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Old 10-24-2020, 10:42 AM   #99
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For me my biggest issue is the cross fade at edit spots, I can never seem to trust it. Before printing I have to audition every splice. These kind of issues are tiny for me. If you are pro, those are all non issues because you just use outboard.
Outboard splicing? I don't understand what you mean.
And what's the issue with Reaper's crossfades? I never had (or noticed?) a problem with that.
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Old 10-24-2020, 10:48 AM   #100
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The lack of playlists and track edit groups has held me off from switching to Reaper for years. Would like to see this finally addressed.
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Old 10-24-2020, 11:03 AM   #101
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Outboard splicing? I don't understand what you mean.
And what's the issue with Reaper's crossfades? I never had (or noticed?) a problem with that.
The splices will turn to \/ instead of X... by default. And become glitches during listening and rendering. And when go in and change default to X, doesn’t always work as expected, for example switching lock “to grid” and edit can make the V show up again, and glitch.. or if X fade is beyond clip, it starts a new loop which then becomes a glitch. So each edit point has to be examined.

So Overdubs cause glitches. And with lanes that can mean a ton of glitches even in just a few pinch ins/ alt takes. Which maybe playlists would not? Haven’t really compared it closely.. always in a hurry lol

Edit: Reaper is so incredibly fast at everything this is no big deal for me.. Just part of my workflow, and I’m learning to consolidate tracks as soon as edits are done. Had to change the consolidate defaults to make that friendly.

Last edited by otb; 10-24-2020 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 10-24-2020, 11:41 AM   #102
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What you are missing is that other DAWs have the "dual mono" feature. Why is this important?

As I said, I rarely if ever link compressor channels on a stereo channel. Most pros I know work this way. I'd say 90% of the compressor plugins I currently own have no option to unlink the sides from the front panel. That means I am 90% more likely to never use these plugins in reaper simply because they waste my time. 90% of mastered releases you listen to probably have unlinked sides on the compressor.

"No DAW is one size fits all." This is what I'm arguing against. Why doesn't one DAW fit all? If Reaper allows users to code their own features that would inherently make it flexible enough to include those features. And in a lot of cases users do code these features, which might get broken in updates (all of the IUA stuff apparently that should be standard). If it is supposed to be the Utopia of DAWs, the developer should be open to adding those features.

I'm saying all this because Reaper IS the utopia of DAWs. I'm trying to argue for making utopia better and more highly populated.

Edit: also the front page of the Reaper site says "VOTE | Please wear a mask | Thank you." That literally wanted me to re-engage in this conversation because Reaper and Justin are so fundamentally awesome.
I think it’s worth it to make a left bus and right bus in your case. Here’s the fastest FASTEST tip I know:

Track templates!!!!

- So much more useful than project templates. You can make any track a template, including a parent track folder a template, and all children are in there. So I make a template of L/R children and parent, pan laws all set the way I want. Incredibly useful.

And FX Chains!!!!

“ bus compressors” can have alll your favs in bypass, with a preset ready to go.

Also you can have all kinds of options... Drum bus templates, etc.
it’s a little more work up front, but the time you save can be incredible.

Grouping in Reaper is easy and preferred to me over other daws. right click draw a box around the clips, G to group, U to ungroup. Great for drums and vocals. Though multi-track editing might be better, I need to try it out.
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Old 10-24-2020, 11:52 AM   #103
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For me my biggest issue is the cross fade at edit spots, I can never seem to trust it. Before printing I have to audition every splice.
You're talking about making a fade as though you weren't the one who made it. Surely you'd be listening to a fade you were in the process of drawing?

If you are talking about the auto-fade making feature (a feature Reaper has)...
If you're trying to find a one-size-fits-all fade for something, that often leads to needing to audition the result to make sure no outliers got through.

This is all an example of work you go through regardless of DAW app. Unless there's an auto-fade feature in one of the other DAWs that makes different length or otherwise altered fades based on the content?
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Old 10-24-2020, 12:04 PM   #104
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Sorry if I’m confusing... I mean when you zoom in to the sample view, each daw has their own way of fading to zero at the beginning/end of the clip. Or crossfade two clips together. In other daws it’s never been a thought, it just works. In reaper though, the lanes and ACID loop team up to make a glitch every once in a while. On every version and computer I’ve used Reaper on. And it’s not always audible, for some reason. I don’t know exactly how it screws up.. But reaper will split clips when overdubbing wherever the prior clips start and end. Each spot might cross fade fine or it might make a glitch, audible esp in headphones.. so I might not notice until I’m really listening close- sounds like splices in takes that were continuous and never spliced. That’s really annoying! When the artist nails it but it sounds like I Frankensteined it together. Other times it makes an ugly quick glitch. Sometimes it’s fine and continuous. Best solution is audition/fix it all, then consolidate to one solid clip
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Old 10-24-2020, 12:22 PM   #105
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Sorry if I’m confusing... I mean when you zoom in to the sample view, each daw has their own way of fading to zero at the beginning/end of the clip...
Only if you enable an auto-fade or crossfade feature. Again, this is all you driving. You're free to enable auto-fades, manually draw fades, or edit with no fades of any kind. In Reaper anyway.
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Old 10-24-2020, 12:59 PM   #106
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I listened to an interview with Justin a while back, and he said that the $225 license only exists so people take the software more seriously because people generally perceive cheap things as worthless. He seemed surprised that some people actually pay that price.
Interesting. I remain happy to have paid that price, and I plan to remain so when 8.0 arrives. That said, I still generally agree with the OP. I would love to stop renewing the support plan for my PT perpetual license, but until that day comes, I still love Reaper for all that it currently is/does.
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Old 10-24-2020, 01:00 PM   #107
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That wasn't my take. Simply that using DAW "X" to provide an example doesn't make the argument irrelevant or all about DAW X. Just as I'm sure you offering guidance is not intended to take OP's arguments off-topic.
I think we’re talking past each other a bit.

What I’m trying to say is that what works for feature requests is a bunch of people asking for them and the dev team agreeing with that need and inspired to add it to REAPER.

You seem to think that claiming it’s omission means that REAPER isn’t conforming to an “industry standard” gives the FR more weight. It doesn’t. And it feels like bullying that you feel the need to keep mentioning it. Like saying your girlfriend should take out the garbage because it’s some “standard”.

REAPER cares about keeping its users happy. Keep asking and it will eventually happen. But this tactic is not going to work.

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Old 10-24-2020, 01:42 PM   #108
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REAPER cares about keeping its users happy.
Don't you think giving some "industry" standards, would make users happier?
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Old 10-24-2020, 01:55 PM   #109
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Don't you think giving some "industry" standards, would make users happier?
No. They specifically have told me that they want to keep their users happy, as long as it doesn't conform to an "industry standard".

REAPER is a 15 year old goth girl.
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Old 10-24-2020, 02:00 PM   #110
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No. They specifically have told me that they want to keep their users happy, as long as it doesn't conform to an "industry standard".

REAPER is a 15 year old goth girl.
Lol, I see. Fair enough!
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Old 10-24-2020, 03:59 PM   #111
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...But this tactic is not going to work.
what 'tactics' are recommended to get a smooth working DAW?
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Old 10-24-2020, 08:43 PM   #112
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what 'tactics' are recommended to get a smooth working DAW?
Besides the FACT that REAPER is "hands down" the smoothest DAW in the world…

I can safely say (from personal experience) that a "smooth working DAW" is anything BUT an "industry standard".

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Old 10-24-2020, 08:53 PM   #113
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No. They specifically have told me that they want to keep their users happy, as long as it doesn't conform to an "industry standard".

REAPER is a 15 year old goth girl.

if reaper had tested certification levels (like pt) then schools would be more inclined to teach it as part of curriculum, because having a certification level is something tangible which can be put on resume.

now nobody start ranting against uselessness of either resumes nor certification levels, because fact is, they do show that some study into learning an app has been reliably completed.
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Old 10-25-2020, 04:29 AM   #114
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Default whats the point

reaper is a very forward moving program,..if you were doing production you would definately appreciate it more

that said when I started mixing with reaper 3 yrs ago I considered it "finished" from a mixing point of view

to point out the 3 things reaper doesnt do natively as deal-breakers
is only relevent to you


no-one likes takes or comps but we find anouther way to do things

if you want to claim a ten year old workflow as "standard"
you know a lot of "engineers" they just do everything the same all the time
if you dont have folder editing set up or a template for mono tracks
you arnt even trying
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Old 10-25-2020, 04:35 AM   #115
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if reaper had tested certification levels (like pt) ...
I recoil with horror at the mere thought ....
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Old 10-25-2020, 05:00 AM   #116
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Interesting thread …

For me, recommending REAPER is the easiest thing. I’ve gone from Music X (Amiga), through Cakewalk (and SONAR) and Cubase, and then from Samplitude to REAPER. REAPER is by far the most versatile DAW I have ever worked in, and REAPER will definitely live up to its name and outlive all the ones we know today. Unless, of course, it will be acquired by a guitar manufacture or the like, which history has taught us is not an impossibility.

The number one counterattack question I get when saying things like this is “oh, so what exactly does REAPER have that [offended fan boy’s favorite DAW here] doesn’t have?”. And my answer to that would often be that I don’t give a shit about “what exactly”. I just know that I have been in the game long enough and that I have landed in a DAW that has something that I never found in any of my previous choices of DAW: the nearness to the developers and the support provided by, not only the developers, but also the advanced users.

I also think the debates about what is and what is not “pro” or “standard” is damaging to the younger, soon to be “pro’s” – because it only misleads them onto tracks of ideas where most of it will be obsolete any time soon – and because the fear of losing the face they will defend the obsolescence even when it’s obvious (I just love how Andrew Scheps is literally killing the whole “pro”-line with his works “in the box”). Old farts proclaiming their methods as an ultimation is so boring.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that no one will ever find a DAW that has ALL the things that all the others have. You will have to stick to the DAW that has the fewest “missing things” and then use your creativities to get the work done. My believe is that that DAW today is REAPER.

That is … at least a few more years. Because in The End there will only be REAPER
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Old 10-25-2020, 07:26 AM   #117
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Besides the FACT that REAPER is "hands down" the smoothest DAW in the world…".
sure.
non-resizable track routing windows. one more mic droped.
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I can safely say (from personal experience) that a "smooth working DAW" is anything BUT an "industry standard".
here's my only personal loop: there is no 'industry standard', as well isn't someone's experience a standard.

but hey, i'm just 67 and only a simple musician for the last 60 years who now make a few bucks from session playing. so what to say.

let me be clear. i'm not trying to spread poison. but even we got so many good things in reaper doesn't mean i can't say what i'd like to see better. and i speak only for myself. i'm not a member of the white house. i'm far away from catching votes.
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Old 10-25-2020, 08:41 AM   #118
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You seem to think that claiming it’s omission means that REAPER isn’t conforming to an “industry standard” gives the FR more weight. It doesn’t. And it feels like bullying that you feel the need to keep mentioning it. Like saying your girlfriend should take out the garbage because it’s some “standard”.
Goodness. What I "seem to think"? Can you not just read the information provided and go off of that? Yes, other DAWs were mentioned (flying spaghetti monster forbid...) by OP and myself. They were being used as examples. Simply because they are good examples. The only reason I made a post showing how many of the other DAWs had a particular feature is because you insisted there are no standards in DAWs which is not true and not supported by the data I provided. You are creating an entire line of argument simply because you don't like a word and in the meantime not discussing the features mentioned. You constantly do this Kenny, and it gets old. How about this? I'll not use the word "standard" ever again on the forums if you can stick to discussing the actual content of a thread without dragging it in a completely different direction. Sound good?

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What I’m trying to say is that what works for feature requests is a bunch of people asking for them and the dev team agreeing with that need and inspired to add it to REAPER.
I will take your advice to heart and try and keep any of the devs "triggers" out of future arguments. I'm hoping on your end, you can actually read the content of what OP was arguing because his points are right on the money, even if he may have done it in a manner you disagree with. There is no benefit whatsoever in attacking how you "feel" an argument was presented versus the argument itself and fixating on that helps no one here. There is a lot of good content and information in this post and you've made it harder for the both the devs and users alike to find it. There is also a huge list of feature requests going back a long time that have had the support of many users and have been presented extremely well (and trigger free) that have not been implemented. It is what it is. There's two guys writing code. But for the love, let the guy make his argument and roll the dice.
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Old 10-25-2020, 09:43 AM   #119
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I think it’s worth it to make a left bus and right bus in your case. Here’s the fastest FASTEST tip I know:

Track templates!!!!

- So much more useful than project templates. You can make any track a template, including a parent track folder a template, and all children are in there. So I make a template of L/R children and parent, pan laws all set the way I want. Incredibly useful.

And FX Chains!!!!

“ bus compressors” can have alll your favs in bypass, with a preset ready to go.

Also you can have all kinds of options... Drum bus templates, etc.
it’s a little more work up front, but the time you save can be incredible.

Grouping in Reaper is easy and preferred to me over other daws. right click draw a box around the clips, G to group, U to ungroup. Great for drums and vocals. Though multi-track editing might be better, I need to try it out.
Yep, I do all of this already. Not the same. Its AMAZING yes, but we should ALSO have dual mono. Why? Because you can't really sample the threshold of a dual mono compressor accurately. You have to change one side then change the other. Wait that doesn't sound right, go back and do it all over again. In analog you have 2 hands, so you can do it simultaneously. With dual mono, the linked dual mono parameter links it so its like having 2 hands.

Appreciate all the workarounds, but so far I haven't found 1 in this thread that I don't already know or makes these requests moot. This is a great discussion.
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Old 10-25-2020, 09:53 AM   #120
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Interesting thread …

For me, recommending REAPER is the easiest thing. I’ve gone from Music X (Amiga), through Cakewalk (and SONAR) and Cubase, and then from Samplitude to REAPER. REAPER is by far the most versatile DAW I have ever worked in, and REAPER will definitely live up to its name and outlive all the ones we know today. Unless, of course, it will be acquired by a guitar manufacture or the like, which history has taught us is not an impossibility.

The number one counterattack question I get when saying things like this is “oh, so what exactly does REAPER have that [offended fan boy’s favorite DAW here] doesn’t have?”. And my answer to that would often be that I don’t give a shit about “what exactly”. I just know that I have been in the game long enough and that I have landed in a DAW that has something that I never found in any of my previous choices of DAW: the nearness to the developers and the support provided by, not only the developers, but also the advanced users.

I also think the debates about what is and what is not “pro” or “standard” is damaging to the younger, soon to be “pro’s” – because it only misleads them onto tracks of ideas where most of it will be obsolete any time soon – and because the fear of losing the face they will defend the obsolescence even when it’s obvious (I just love how Andrew Scheps is literally killing the whole “pro”-line with his works “in the box”). Old farts proclaiming their methods as an ultimation is so boring.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that no one will ever find a DAW that has ALL the things that all the others have. You will have to stick to the DAW that has the fewest “missing things” and then use your creativities to get the work done. My believe is that that DAW today is REAPER.

That is … at least a few more years. Because in The End there will only be REAPER

I agree with all of this BUT! And its a big BUT. Some of these workflows from other DAWs are just superior to Reaper, and need to be included for a lot of folks to take Reaper seriously because they are absolutely necessary features. It's not a big deal, and it's not meant to be taken personally. It will bring more users to the platform. It will make the program more of a standard. Just look at the folks in this thread besides myself who say "yeah I never switched to Reaper because it didn't have these features." That means I'm right and these features are needed. Simple.

I keep stumbling on things that make Reaper so awesome (the track freezing, WOW incredible). But I am NEVER recording another live band record in Reaper where multiple edit groups are needed. It's just insane to think the current grouping system is even useable. You have to have the clearest/sharpest mind to keep track of what is in what group at all times. This last record I tracked (and played on) is probably some of the hardest music out there. And having to play that music and THEN remember what tracks are in what group at all times (are they still grouped etc) was maddening. Like I said above, great toolbox but no nails.

DP 4 (in 2005 no less) had a vastly superior group editing system. Yes that DAW is a dumpster fire of buggy code but man, just add that s^%t to Reaper already.
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