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10-09-2020, 02:37 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 39
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Drums Getting Lost
Hi all
As mentioned in another question I'm about to try and master my first tune in Reaper.
One thing i cant seem to fix is the drums getting a bit lost in the Chorus.
There's more going on obviously with some keyboards and more guitar, but I'd like the drums to stand out a bit more in the chorus. I've tried compressing them but it either makes them too loud or when i bring the gain down i cant hear them properly as before.
I'm sure it's my inexperience and maybe I've got a bit too much reverb/delay going on in the other tracks which doesn't help.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
Les
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10-09-2020, 02:48 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Compression might make the problem worse, depending on how you set the attack and release.
A couple of other ideas:
Just turn the drum bus up in the chorus.
Take the overheads, and maybe some of the close mic's, and send them to a saturation/compression parallel track that only plays in the choruses.
It all depends on the context of your mix though. Is it all of the drums that are getting lost? Or is it cymbals, bass drum, snare? Is it the attack and the sustain of the drums that you can't hear? Try muting other instruments one by one, and see if the drums come back, because it might be that some small changes to other tracks might be a better way to deal with this than finding more ways to pump the drums up.
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10-09-2020, 08:15 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RESROCKS
Hi all
As mentioned in another question I'm about to try and master my first tune in Reaper.
One thing i cant seem to fix is the drums getting a bit lost in the Chorus.
There's more going on obviously with some keyboards and more guitar, but I'd like the drums to stand out a bit more in the chorus. I've tried compressing them but it either makes them too loud or when i bring the gain down i cant hear them properly as before.
I'm sure it's my inexperience and maybe I've got a bit too much reverb/delay going on in the other tracks which doesn't help.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
Les
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... "mix" my first tune...
(Mastering usually refers to putting final mixes into various consumer formats. Just being pedantic.)
Did you try simply turning the drums up in those sections?
Maybe you did that but then you had some red lights going off from overs? That's when you want some compression or limiting. Set the volume of the part where you want to hear it. If there are peaks hitting red after that, knock them back with a compressor or limiter.
But wait! Don't go in circles turning everything up!
You might discover that you actually need to turn something else down during those sections.
It may be that the drums need to be brighter or something during that section. You get into that kind of stuff in mixes often enough. But start with simply working the volumes. For general arrangement balancing like that I'll go right to my final subgroup tracks and automate the volume envelopes there.
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10-09-2020, 10:23 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,255
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Try parallel compression instead. It's just a heavily compressed signal blended with the original to taste (best of both). Easiest way is to duplicate the track and compress that. Standard way is to create a pre-fader send to another track and compress that, but routing can be confusing if you're new to it.
Nice thing about parallel is you don't lose the original dynamics, but you can have a very extreme character compressor bringing up the quiet bits in an interesting way. Doesn't have to be extreme, but you can get away with more obvious settings, since you're able to add just a little of that effect without directly altering the original.
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10-09-2020, 08:20 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,927
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It's possible that you have the other stuff too loud in the chorus, too.
Sometimes you can use panning or different EQ settings to make the other instruments stand out enough without actually making them louder.
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10-10-2020, 09:11 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,272
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“You know it’s fucking loud when you can’t hear the drums.”
Which is to say that with a live band in a real room, if the acoustic drums get drowned out, everything else must be absurdly loud. In certain types of mixes I like to recreate that.
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10-10-2020, 10:26 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt
“You know it’s fucking loud when you can’t hear the drums.”
Which is to say that with a live band in a real room, if the acoustic drums get drowned out, everything else must be absurdly loud. In certain types of mixes I like to recreate that.
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Haha nice
I like to pull the vox back a little sometimes when something needs to rock more like it would live.
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10-11-2020, 09:31 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RESROCKS
I've tried compressing them but it either makes them too loud or when i bring the gain down i cant hear them properly as before.
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What are your compressor settings?
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10-12-2020, 04:25 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 39
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Hi All
Managed to sort it.
I've realised that every effect on the track was a 100%, so I've turned all the effects etc. down to around 70%. (Using some EZ mix which sounds pretty good to my ears), and some other vst's.
The entire track sounds much more punchy and less awash with delay/reverb.
Is there anywhere on here that people put their finished tracks for others to listen to???
Thanks everyone for you help and suggestions.
Cheers
Les
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10-12-2020, 10:10 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RESROCKS
Hi All
Managed to sort it.
I've realised that every effect on the track was a 100%, so I've turned all the effects etc. down to around 70%. (Using some EZ mix which sounds pretty good to my ears), and some other vst's.
The entire track sounds much more punchy and less awash with delay/reverb.
Is there anywhere on here that people put their finished tracks for others to listen to???
Thanks everyone for you help and suggestions.
Cheers
Les
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You can do that, but it's not the ideal approach. It's better to set the effects to 100% then adjust the volume of the FX track (relative to the dry track) to change the amount of the effect. Or, if you have multiple dry tracks feeding a single effects track, use the volumes of the sends from the dry track to adjust the amount of the effect.
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10-12-2020, 01:38 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,044
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valy
You can do that, but it's not the ideal approach. It's better to set the effects to 100% then adjust the volume of the FX track (relative to the dry track) to change the amount of the effect. Or, if you have multiple dry tracks feeding a single effects track, use the volumes of the sends from the dry track to adjust the amount of the effect.
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From the post, I'm guessing these were insert effects, not sends.
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10-12-2020, 03:13 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
From the post, I'm guessing these were insert effects, not sends.
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To each his own I suppose
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10-12-2020, 03:24 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 39
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Yes these were insert effects.
Haven't been down the sends route yet.
Sounds good to me as it is, might go down the sends route in my next project.
As the late and very great EVH said "There are no rules"
Cheers
Les
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10-13-2020, 09:58 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RESROCKS
Yes these were insert effects.
Haven't been down the sends route yet.
Sounds good to me as it is, might go down the sends route in my next project.
As the late and very great EVH said "There are no rules"
Cheers
Les
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No doubt. If they were already inserts, and you just wanted to fix the problem in this particular instance, you did it right.
I'd seriously consider trying out FX send/returns in the future if you want to add way more flexibility to what you are doing. Of course, if the way you are doing it now is good enough for your purposes...then keep on keeping on.
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10-14-2020, 03:17 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 39
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I will
As i said this is my first time with Reaper and there's still a ton of stuff i don't know/understand. I just wanted to keep things simple for my first attempt. I aim to branch out and use sends/returns on my next project.
Cheers
Les
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