Thank you so much! The plugin is almost flawless.
Two inconveniences that bother me now:
1. Do you need an Input regulator? I have no idea in which scenario I can use it. And now it works strangely: when you decrease it, it does not affect the sound, and when you increase it, it greatly raises the output level.
2. The plugin is very loud now. For a comfortable work, I would be glad to get a level equal to the input. Maybe it makes sense to add an Output regulator?
Thank you so much! The plugin is almost flawless.
Two inconveniences that bother me now:
1. Do you need an Input regulator? I have no idea in which scenario I can use it. And now it works strangely: when you decrease it, it does not affect the sound, and when you increase it, it greatly raises the output level.
It's an extreme upward compressor (hence you don't hear changes for the lower half when the ratio is high enough). When you exceed the threshold the sound passes through unchanged essentially. You can see when you reach this point by visually comparing the shaded spectrum to the line. Personally, I prefer that over hard clipping the output.
Quote:
2. The plugin is very loud now. For a comfortable work, I would be glad to get a level equal to the input. Maybe it makes sense to add an Output regulator?
That's kind of antithesis to the thing it's doing though?
It's supposed to make quiet sounds really loud. What we could do is set a lower default output level by just having a master gain at the end.
What we could do is set a lower default output level by just having a master gain at the end.
I din’t want to bother you with that as I had already suggested it so I added it myself, but indeed it works well. I actually did put a gain pre-clipper (to not distort too hard when clipping is enabled) and post-clipper (to scale the final output to whatever I want - if clipper is disabled one of the sliders is redundant tough).
I din’t want to bother you with that as I had already suggested it so I added it myself, but indeed it works well. I actually did put a gain pre-clipper (to not distort too hard when clipping is enabled) and post-clipper (to scale the final output to whatever I want - if clipper is disabled one of the sliders is redundant tough).
Are you using the latest version? There is a clipper in there with choices between hard clip, soft clip and first order anti-aliased clip?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitalker
Maybe he means adding some limiter?
That's what "Bidirectional compression does" on the individual bands when you have a high enough ratio. But a limiter will not actually limit all the instantaneous audio to never go above 0 dB, because there's an attack and decay time. Also, this limiting is applied per band rather than on the sum. It's optional, because in many cases you might not want the subtle rebalancing thing ends up doing.
Note that clipping and saturation are applied on the sum however (since those are meant to control total volume rather than the per band volume).
I'm a bit afraid that if we add a global limiter with ballistics as well, we'd start getting into the territory of slider mess with the JSFX, which I don't really want. Two sets of attack/decay parameters might be confusing. It seems like a job that could be done well by a dedicated limiting plugin after the plugin if limiting is what you want.
I'm a bit afraid that if we add a global limiter with ballistics as well, we'd start getting into the territory of slider mess with the JSFX, which I don't really want. Two sets of attack/decay parameters might be confusing. It seems like a job that could be done well by a dedicated limiting plugin after the plugin if limiting is what you want.
I agree with this, just tried to explain cool's words.
Are you using the latest version? There is a clipper in there with choices between hard clip, soft clip and first order anti-aliased clip?
Yes, I have just tweaked your code like this. "output_preclip" and "output_postclip" are just two gain sliders to have control on how loud the signal is that hits the clipper and how loud the output is after the clipper (basically master out fader).
A small hack that works pretty well for me and how I want to use the Ravager. Whether you want something similar in your official version or not depends obviously on you, was just a suggestion to have master output gain and perhaps also pre-clipper gain. As said with clipper disabled one of the sliders is redundant but I am sure you would find a more intelligent solution, should you be interested to do something similar.
It's an extreme upward compressor (hence you don't hear changes for the lower half when the ratio is high enough). When you exceed the threshold the sound passes through unchanged essentially. You can see when you reach this point by visually comparing the shaded spectrum to the line. Personally, I prefer that over hard clipping the output.
Yes, I know that the plugin has the strongest compression and I will not hear any change when the input level is changed. That was my question: is this adjustment really necessary if any decrease in the level will be compensated by compression, and any increase will cause a strong excess of the output level? I just want to process the signal and not go deaf while doing it.
Additionally, the same level of the input and output level will make it possible to use the Dry/Wet knob normally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sai'ke
That's kind of antithesis to the thing it's doing though?
It's supposed to make quiet sounds really loud. What we could do is set a lower default output level by just having a master gain at the end.
I just want to process the signal and not go deaf while doing it.
When processing, I have one goal: to compress the dynamic range. The maximum level of 100% of my samples (own and samples of any manufacturers) and any sounds in DAW are in the range from -20dB to 0dB. After processing a sample that has a maximum level of -20dB, I get an output level of + 7dB. I cannot compensate for this and this huge difference threatens to damage my hearing. I get a similar result with a sample that has a 0dB level.
Hence, the question is: why does a plugin that outputs a constant level make it so loud? Okay, I'm ready to withstand 0 dB at the output, but would it be more logical and more handy to be able to adjust the output level to compensate for the difference with the input? All compressors have this.
Additionally, the same level of the input and output level will make it possible to use the Dry/Wet knob normally.
I totally agree that an overall gain slider would make sense and that -20 dB is probably a reasonable normal for that. Upon initialization the thing is *way* too loud.
What I'm arguing against is making it gain dependent on the input because the whole point of the plugin is to make audible what was inaudible at low levels before. This plugin is probably just not intended for what you think it's intended for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool
I just want to process the signal and not go deaf while doing it.
When processing, I have one goal: to compress the dynamic range. The maximum level of 100% of my samples (own and samples of any manufacturers) and any sounds in DAW are in the range from -20dB to 0dB. After processing a sample that has a maximum level of -20dB, I get an output level of + 7dB. I cannot compensate for this and this huge difference threatens to damage my hearing. I get a similar result with a sample that has a 0dB level.
Hence, the question is: why does a plugin that outputs a constant level make it so loud? Okay, I'm ready to withstand 0 dB at the output, but would it be more logical and more handy to be able to adjust the output level to compensate for the difference with the input? All compressors have this.
No. In a normal compressor a make-up gain is computed such that the 0 dB point stays at zero dB.
How exactly do you expect this gain to be computed for an upwards compressor though? If you place it at zero, the make-up gain would be nearly negative infinity.
Anyways, nobody is stopping you modifying it and making your own version of it.
What I do agree on is that the whole threshold with compensation is very wonky, so I suggest removing it all-together.
Combining that with Phazma's suggestion, having an input gain, a distortion gain and an output gain seems perfectly reasonable to me.
When not doing clipping, the input gain can be used to preserve some dynamics if needed. When doing clipping, the distortion gain can be used to control this. The output gain is for leveling and protecting your ears.
I've just pushed v0.07 with these modifications. Unfortunately, it means that I had to make some breaking changes. It'd be best to remove any presets you had and initialize the plugin from scratch (edit -> full recompile).
Now it is really great! Comprehensive and easy to use.
Regarding the default values, wouldn't it maybe make more sense to have the distortion gain lowered instead of the output gain? Because now it has low output but as soon as engaging the clipping it sounds very distorted.
To me it seems like it mostly peaks around +7dB. I personally have thus set the distortion gain to -7 and the output gain to -13. Maybe make it -8 / -12 (being 12 a more standard value). That would basically give the same result as your defaults but when engaging the clipper one can boost into it without it immediately sounding very distorted.
EDIT: Btw graphically I think the readout for Ratio and Decay would better fit in the upper right corner of the graph, so that the box which indicates the band crossover frequency doesn't overlap with that text when dragging it towards the lower frequencies (happens specially when making the FX window narrower).
The input issue should be fixed now. Was an oversight when I added the input gain smoothing (forgot to initialize it, whoops!).
Also added the clipping options.
You can already add up to five bands. Outer mouse button adds / removes a band.
Ctrl/cmd + Click bypasses the compression on that band. Note that it _does not_ bypass any output clipping, since that's done on the final mix, because otherwise there's no way to guarantee that it stays in the desired range!
Outer click solo's the band. Left click mutes it.
Regarding making it like OTT, I don't really want to complicate it like that. Per band settings would really add a lot of complexity. We have OTT when more nuanced settings are needed.
No worries, i'll stick to OTT
Hopefully Duda finds time to make it sizable and M1 native.
Edit*
Yep dumb as **** completely forgot its JS, I can hack at the code myself or try and donate somebody up to mod it to get the extra controls lol, doh.
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Last edited by Win Conway; 03-04-2021 at 01:59 AM.
What I'm arguing against is making it gain dependent on the input
I am also against it. Gain dependent on the input is not handy.
v0.07 works fine, thanks!
One last niggle (hopefully):
Does "bi-directional compression" option make sense? I don't hear the difference. I even decided to check myself and turned on two tracks in antiphase with the same settings, but the option turned on on one of them. They are completely subtracted, which indicates that this parameter has no effect on the sound.
I want to note. I would not want you to think that I am negative. I really like the plugin and would like it to work perfect.
No worries, i'll stick to OTT
Hopefully Duda finds time to make it sizable and M1 native.
Edit*
Yep dumb as **** completely forgot its JS, I can hack at the code myself or try and donate somebody up to mod it to get the extra controls lol, doh.
Yeah. Feel free to convert it to a proper OTT-style thing with more controls. Would be cool if you can release it to everyone when you do.
I'm not against exploring this, but we could discuss an OTT-style thing in a separate thread to prevent derailing this one.
I think it'd be quite some work to add enough functionality to get feature parity with OTT, especially since you need more complex UI elements. I'm worried about going into a project that's not clearly defined because before you know it, you end with a ton of iterations of work because the early stuff wasn't clearly defined. Personally, I also don't really like the OTT UI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool
I am also against it. Gain dependent on the input is not handy.
v0.07 works fine, thanks!
One last niggle (hopefully):
Does "bi-directional compression" option make sense? I don't hear the difference. I even decided to check myself and turned on two tracks in antiphase with the same settings, but the option turned on on one of them. They are completely subtracted, which indicates that this parameter has no effect on the sound.
I want to note. I would not want you to think that I am negative. I really like the plugin and would like it to work perfect.
No worries. I think we just had a misunderstanding is all. I got the impression from the post that you wanted input-dependent make-up gain.
The difference between bi-directional compression on and off is only audible if your input gain is high enough such that it goes over the threshold and you don't have the clipping engaged.
GeoffPlaysGuitar made a new video about Doom style music and it features a new attempt of reverse engineering Doom Compressor as Max DSP patch, with screenshot and audio demo of course :P
I noticed that some plugin, even if no sound is generated by them (cause no monitor/rec and no play), seems to reduce bit depth and so, a high pitch signal is boosted
Using reagate à -100.5 db in case of ezdrummer for eg, seems to solve the issue.
Maybe a simple gate slider could be builtin for convenience ?
Maybe a simple gate slider could be builtin for convenience ?
There is a minimum threshold above which the signal is boosted. Originally, I had set it higher to prevent this; but then you said you wanted the minimal threshold to be much lower. It'd be trivial to have it configurable. Or to set it N dB above a certain precision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by carlitomiler
Perhaps, you should find a software engineer for this task.
Hm? I mean, there may be some bugs, but the requirements were also rather fluid
This jsfx by saike for me seems to work way better right out of the box than OTT which always needs some tweaking. Not sure that I would like this to become a 3band design
Thanks – I agree wholeheartedly
__________________ Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x "If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
Hi , i'm french. i love djent and doom music by mick gordon.
Try to training with reaper to sound like him. i work on reaper. have serum, with tonepusher doom presets. have 8 string guitar and i am passionate !
I created some doom-like music with my mind
i have 2 questions if someone can help me.
Use all jsfx by saike but not have the same sound I wanted to do something like his old post where there are 3 extracts in wav. he explain a little reverb, yutani, reflectosaurus and ravage I imagine. All with just 2 notes. Someone can show short video on youtube for exemple or explain the step ?
Second questions : i learn a lot and try to morph guitar with chainsaw. I try sample with reasampleomatic5000 or grace and use midi keyboard to have the chainsaw sound, can play on "note" to follow guitar,
I have Zynaptic wormhole and Morph 2.
but i have a very bad sound when i combine the 2 sounds together.
i also have spectmorph
how can I proceed? thank you for your comeback
here is my soundcloud if you'd like to quickly listen to what I'm trying to do like mick gordon in my style. it is not for advertising but on the other hand to show you my involvement and my seriousness ;-)
he succeded everything: the chainsaw/guitar morph, the use of analog gear, the blend with synths etc...
He shows some ways to get DOOM Compressor, but saike version is more versatile (though it may sound different, not sure what you are looking for exactly)
thank you for your answer x-raym! , I don't really know what I'm looking for. But one thing is certain is that I have trouble using ravager, reflecto and yutani to bring out the sound of doom like that version or 4 tracks go in a small amp that's what I'm looking for. Bass sounds at the start of a note then a shrill cry towards the end. I'll watch all the videos. If you have anything else in info, or link I'm interested. a big thank-you
it's difficult because i'm french and he use ableton on videos and i work on reaper. i think he's doom compressor not work in reaper
Last edited by royalcheese; 07-23-2021 at 06:24 AM.
Hey man, I can send you the RPP files I used for those.
If you want those shrieking like things, put a reverb (I use reflecto for this) in front of the ravager and add a few more high frequency bands in Ravager (right mouse button on the frequency diagram).
I have attached the files I used when testing ravager. They weren't real projects, just things to mess with.
For basses, it's nice to add a delay before ravager. Already gives plenty of chaos.
The big issue with these is that you probably have to render these sounds out, and then reimport and mess with them, because the chains themselves are very difficult to keep under control
saike, thanks. You are a god! I understood now, in fact I was doing everything on a track ... so maybe that's why I didn't have the same sounds haha.
A big thank you to you I hope you listened to 2, 3 sounds on my soundcloud ;-)
For morph chainsaw and guitar do you have any idea how to proceed? Because I have everything I need but I do not know how to get there and the sound is awful on my side ^^
royalcheese, if the chainsaw samples are pre-pitched to closely follow the guitar part, then this shouldn't be a problem. In general, the mechanism is the same as when layering synthesizers or samples.
If I understood correctly, I take a chainsaw sample with reasample or grace, and adjust the height first with reapitch for example. I chose to put "note" on off like that no matter what note from the keyboard to the same sound and I find the key with the guitar. Then, I put the "note" mode on "on" which will allow me to follow the guitar with my keyboard and the midi notes.
In the end, no need for a morph. although we can combine the 2 with zynaptic morph 2. Am I on the right track? Thank you
As Geoff was the inspiration for this, I think this deserve to promote his brand new VST, which is based on this same idea, but with a bit more sound tweaking possibilities :
It doesn't have the fancy audio spectrum analyzer than Ravage (tge JSFX Doom compressor) has, but it sounds quite promising :P enjoy!