a great feature of studio one (musicloops) - for reaper?

[the brok]

hi all,

here's a very useful feature (actually two - how adding automation from a vst/i parameter is made ready) i would love to see in reaper. studio one features a filetype called "musicloop". essentially saving the full track state, plugin instrument, its preset, fx, their presets, items, automation, etc via drag&drop to a location of your choice in the browser. think of it as a zip file, containing all the stuff. it also renders a flac file for previewing. what the guy in the video forgot to show is, that if you drag the musicloop file back into the arrangement - if you drag the musicloop on an audio track, the actual audio rendering is pasted, if you drag the musicloop file to an empty space or an empty midi track, the full state is loaded with all the above mentioned.
something like this in reaper would be gold, imo...have a look for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aiiko5Brvx0

imo a great thing to have...

edit:
the format is ope source, free to be implemented into any host that wants to support it. here's the link for the necessary information:

http://presonussoftware.com/en_US/in...p?id=developer


maybe some developer/skilled scripter can have a look into it? i mean with ara it's already been done, why not with this format, too?

[chema001]

Originally Posted by the brok

hi all,

here's a very useful feature (actually two - how adding automation from a vst/i parameter is made ready) i would love to see in reaper. studio one features a filetype called "musicloop". essentially saving the full traclstate, plugin instrument, its preset, fx, their presets, items, automation, etc via drag&drop to a location of your choice in the browser. think of it as a zip file, containing all the stuff. it also renders a flac file for previewing. what the guy in the video forgot to show is, that if you drag the musicloop file back into the arrangement - if you drag the musicloop on an audio track, the actual audio rendering is pasted, if you drag the musicloop file to an empty space or an empty midi track, the full state is loaded with all the above mentioned.
something like this in reaper would be gold, imo...have a look for yourself:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aiiko5Brvx0

imo a great thing to have...

I would be great that Reaper include this feature!!

I think that composing tools (sounds, vsti, libraries, etc.) are the worst thing of Reaper comparing with the rest of DAWs.

[Opaque]

The equivalent to this in Reaper would be your subprojects, or the ability to import projects into another project as a kind of temporary render. Save all of these little "musicloops", regardless of how many tracks, automation or fx they contain, as projects in a special folder for that purpose, and then you can have it open in the docker and just drag and drop into whichever project you're currently working on.
Also, you could unpack these after you insert them or keep them as a temporary render which you can then manipulate as any audio file, but simultaneously keep it open in a separate project tab which allows you to have a different bpm just for those parts or to e.g. manipulate the playback rate without affecting the main project.
There are some great tutorials regarding subprojects on youtube.

[the brok]

Originally Posted by Opaque

The equivalent to this in Reaper would be your subprojects, or the ability to import projects into another project as a kind of temporary render. Save all of these little "musicloops", regardless of how many tracks, automation or fx they contain, as projects in a special folder for that purpose, and then you can have it open in the docker and just drag and drop into whichever project you're currently working on.
Also, you could unpack these after you insert them or keep them as a temporary render which you can then manipulate as any audio file, but simultaneously keep it open in a separate project tab which allows you to have a different bpm just for those parts or to e.g. manipulate the playback rate without affecting the main project.
There are some great tutorials regarding subprojects on youtube.

i get that and often use it. though it is simply not comparable to the ease of use of musicloops. the simplicity of the musicloop "philosophy" is stunning...
see, in reaper _anything_ is _somehow_ possible - yet, it's the ease of use/implementation that often decides over "do's" and "don't"...
so in the end, subprojects are not really comparable to musicloops...

[dtr0q]

I really wish there would be an option to dock project tabs in one view, synchronizing zoom, edit cursor etc. like midi editor can do. I often need to align stuff in subproject with content of the main project. Currently have to copy paste items between tabs, not very convenient.

[Opaque]

Originally Posted by the brok

i get that and often use it. though it is simply not comparable to the ease of use of musicloops. the simplicity of the musicloop "philosophy" is stunning...
see, in reaper _anything_ is _somehow_ possible - yet, it's the ease of use/implementation that often decides over "do's" and "don't"...
so in the end, subprojects are not really comparable to musicloops...

I agree with you about the "anything is possible in reaper", which often amounts to overcomplicated and not as polished workarounds (e.g. approximating midi cc envelopes), but in this case I really don't see what advantages and ease of use of musicloops compared to subprojects you are talking about. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether subprojects can be directly 'exploded' while inserting them, meaning that instead of rendering, you get items, tracks and automation inserted into the project.

[the brok]

Originally Posted by Opaque

I agree with you about the "anything is possible in reaper", which often amounts to overcomplicated and not as polished workarounds (e.g. approximating midi cc envelopes), but in this case I really don't see what advantages and ease of use of musicloops compared to subprojects you are talking about. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether subprojects can be directly 'exploded' while inserting them, meaning that instead of rendering, you get items, tracks and automation inserted into the project.

hmm... i might not get what you mean entirely, but don't you see a difference between the both?
one is actually a project that you save, which might reference to a dozen files all over different hard drives, the other is a completely independent "zip" file, which contains all the necessary files. it can be taken anywhere and actually, if you don't have studio one installed, can be used in other hosts more or less conveniently either by using the rendered audio file or the midifile... imo way less hassle to think about or to keep track of... and it's only one drag&drop action to be used _within whatever_ project... see, i'm refering to the workflow here as well as the ease of use that can't be beaten...

[J Riley Hill]

This looks pretty neat. Studio One seems to have lots of well thought out features for production.

Just in case you aren't aware "track templates" in REAPER do almost everything that musicloops files do. They can store midi, audio, fx, automation and instruments.
You just have to select include track media and include track envelopes when you save the file, as seen below.
The only thing they don't do is store an audio preview. (you could just render a loop of the same name and store it alongside the file if you wanted though)

They can also include any number of tracks in one template so they are useful for lots of other stuff.... Also you can open them from REAPERS media browser, which is handy.

[Lawrence]

The open spec is here: http://www.presonussoftware.com/reso...ioloopspec.zip

Maybe scripters can support it. Would make for a nice 'universal' track format for sharing instrument tracks between daws if other products would support it.

[the brok]

Originally Posted by J Riley Hill

This looks pretty neat. Studio One seems to have lots of well thought out features for production.

Just in case you aren't aware "track templates" in REAPER do almost everything that musicloops files do. They can store midi, audio, fx, automation and instruments.
You just have to select include track media and include track envelopes when you save the file, as seen below.
The only thing they don't do is store an audio preview. (you could just render a loop of the same name and store it alongside the file if you wanted though)

They can also include any number of tracks in one template so they are useful for lots of other stuff.... Also you can open them from REAPERS media browser, which is handy.

i know track templates and i use them for good - they're god-sent and something, that studio one is still missing.
but track templates are not the same. you can't preview them in the browser, nor are they self contained files which hold all the necessary data in them, nor can you access the necessary data from within the track template file outside of reaper or even inside of reaper (inside of reaper you still have to open the track template fully the way as it was saved, to access just a certain part of it). also you can't store them via drag&drop to the browser. again - it's the sheer simplicity i am referring to, that makes the musicloop idea so adorable. you just don't have to really bother anymore...

[J Riley Hill]

ah I see yeah that makes sense. since it is open hopefully someone can script an extension for that someday.

[the brok]

Originally Posted by J Riley Hill

ah I see yeah that makes sense. since it is open hopefully someone can script an extension for that someday.

yes, i actually forgot to mention that _very_ important information - the format is free to be implemented into any host that wants to support it. so basically the reaper developers would have every information on how to implement this format, which makes collaboration and library building/and/or sharing a real breeze... it just makes so much sense...

[the brok]

here's the link for the developers/scripters to implement the format:

http://presonussoftware.com/en_US/in...p?id=developer

[the brok]

Originally Posted by Lawrence

The open spec is here: http://www.presonussoftware.com/reso...ioloopspec.zip

Maybe scripters can support it. Would make for a nice 'universal' track format for sharing instrument tracks between daws if other products would support it.

hi lawrence, that's "only" the "audioloop" format. i posted the link to the "musicloop" format above - maybe you, as a skilled scripter, might want to have a look at that, too...

[the brok]

any scripters/developers reading this?

[the brok]

really? noone? come on guys... wouldn't be that a great addition to reaper...?

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by the brok

really? noone? come on guys... wouldn't be that a great addition to reaper...?

Had a quick glance at the spec, looks like it might be possible to do at least part of this as a Reaper Extension (like SWS), I am currently working on something else for Reaper, but if this is simple, might be able to get something started at least, probably should be open source...

Who's payin' ?

[the brok]

Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington

Had a quick glance at the spec, looks like it might be possible to do at least part of this as a Reaper Extension (like SWS), I am currently working on something else for Reaper, but if this is simple, might be able to get something started at least, probably should be open source...

Who's payin' ?

this would be extremely cool i must say...

[Velcro]

A musicloops equivalent in Reaper would be awesome!

For now I've made got a custom action that copies a selected item's track, selects its destination tracks (keeps routing intact), copies them all in a new project tab...but then I still have to manually go over and place =START and =END markers, save as, etc... and then it doesn't have any preview audio until I call it up in the Media Explorer, whereupon it has to reopen the RPP, create the proxy, etc...

It's okay but just a little much. Sometimes you come up a little phrase or chord progression or sound effect that doesn't work with your current project, but is worth keeping...You wanna be able to just stick it in a bin where you'll easily find it later and keep on moving.

I tried "items to subproject" but it loses the routings. "Tracks to subproject" creates a proxy right away which is nice, but converts those tracks, whereas I still want to work with the vsti's and fx in that project, so that's not the answer either.

so basically, musicloops, yes please.

[the brok]

Originally Posted by Velcro

A musicloops equivalent in Reaper would be awesome!

For now I've made got a custom action that copies a selected item's track, selects its destination tracks (keeps routing intact), copies them all in a new project tab...but then I still have to manually go over and place =START and =END markers, save as, etc... and then it doesn't have any preview audio until I call it up in the Media Explorer, whereupon it has to reopen the RPP, create the proxy, etc...

It's okay but just a little much. Sometimes you come up a little phrase or chord progression or sound effect that doesn't work with your current project, but is worth keeping...You wanna be able to just stick it in a bin where you'll easily find it later and keep on moving.

I tried "items to subproject" but it loses the routings. "Tracks to subproject" creates a proxy right away which is nice, but converts those tracks, whereas I still want to work with the vsti's and fx in that project, so that's not the answer either.

so basically, musicloops, yes please.

yes, that's one of the main reasons i love the format "musicloop" as well. it's just so superstraight forward to store ideas... plus, i have to do a lot of preset demos, and with musiclopps everything is saved by just one drag and drop and no matter what you might need lateron, it's there with again just one single drag and drop. it just couldn't be easier... i mean, it can be done in reaper some way, but it incorporates way more steps until the same is achieved...
and once again - the format is perfectly documented, easy to implement for a coder and it is open source. what more could one possibly want in that case?
i mean reaper implemented "ara" - why not this, when it's way easier to be implemented?

[lucor]

Of all the great features that Studio One has over REAPER (chord track, scratch pad, arranger track), MUSICLOOPS is the one feature that I'd like to see implemented the most!
The ability to quickly capture MIDI ideas and sounds and quickly listen back to them as if you're skimming through .wav files is invaluable IMO.
Also it doesn't seem that hard to do, it's basically just a track template paired with an .aiff file, no? Then again I have no clue about stuff like this...

[the brok]

Originally Posted by lucor

Of all the great features that Studio One has over REAPER (chord track, scratch pad, arranger track), MUSICLOOPS is the one feature that I'd like to see implemented the most!
The ability to quickly capture MIDI ideas and sounds and quickly listen back to them as if you're skimming through .wav files is invaluable IMO.
Also it doesn't seem that hard to do, it's basically just a track template paired with an .aiff file, no? Then again I have no clue about stuff like this...

i'm all with you. it's such an easy and indispensable feature, to be able to just drag&drop a midi item to the browser/finder/explorer/whatever location, and everything necessary is saved within the resulting musicloop.
but it seems there's not too many users interrested in this feature, nore are the developers. at least there's not a lot of reaction on this feature request.