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View Poll Results: Which theme would you want done most?
Solaris SSL 28 52.83%
Tonelux 8 15.09%
Redd 51 9 16.98%
Yamaha N2 8 15.09%
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:31 PM   #41
fwd0120
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Originally Posted by witti View Post
But there already exist an editor for that. It's called "Notepad" !
Man, I've been down that road. I took a look at the current WALTER SDK.

My background is programming add-ons in microsoft flight simulator. Mostly lots of control panels. You know what a control panel of a 747 looks like? It looks a lot like a reaper theme when you open it in a text editor.
I've been doing it literally since I was 12. So it's nothing new to me to see and work with all those numbers. But even after many years fans developed a WYSIWYG editor!
I know there has been a lot of talk about making one since the beginning of Walter, but nobody has really done it.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:45 PM   #42
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Wish there were more TCP focussed themes, all this fake mixer stuff is tedious.
+1
Agree.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:23 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by vStyler View Post
WYSIWYG?

I'd tear that up right now.. already have a theme designed.



I like this, it would be great for live mixing as it wouldn't light up the room.
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Old 08-07-2013, 05:25 AM   #44
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Wish there were more TCP focussed themes, all this fake mixer stuff is tedious.
Yes, but there are likely others like myself that have absolutely no use for tcp view as all we do is mix.
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Old 08-07-2013, 06:36 AM   #45
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A Reaper theme is a dynamic interface; things change based on size and context. Big pictures of fancy mixers look exciting, lots of you like that, believe me I understand. Show someone a well coded dynamic TCP and they're much less likely to share the screenshot, bump the thread, get excited. But this work is being done, and done well, you may just not be paying attention to it. Maybe start a thread about which TCPs you like and why. Or something.

Choosing which themes to try by looking at screenshots is an unavoidable step, and there's little point trying a theme if you don't like the look of it. I'm sure we can all agree. BUT... the reverse does not apply. If you've only seen a screenshot, its completely bonkers to make any assumptions about how the theme will work for you. I'm as susceptible as the next man to "enthusiastic glee based on vague woo factor" ...fun times... but take a breath. Its actually bollocks, yeah?

The lack of understanding of the difference between a static screenshot and the reality of a living breathing Reaper theme lies, I can't help feeling, at the heart of what I see as a misunderstanding amongst those asking for a WYSIWYG editor. If such a thing existed (and I struggle to see how it could) then I think we'd see a lot more static themes, and less of the clever interactive stuff that actually benefits the user. Either way, it seems like a red herring to me. Learn WALTER, its dead easy. Of course I might be wrong, and let he who has learned the basics of WALTER and still wants a WYSIWYG editor please speak up. And, in the name of all that is good and holy, carve this on your soul:

If you're going to learn WALTER, or form opinions about it, by trying to edit existing themes, its going to kick you in the face. I've made a manual, its in tutorial form(ish) ...work through it. It really won't take long and the mists will clear.

And, as ever, I'm going to go ahead and ask you, if you're a bit of a douchebag, to try not to be a dick to the themers, m'kay? Yeah, thanks. Great.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:20 AM   #46
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I personally I have to do many strange things sometimes in the tcp to achieve desired .... due to its limitation ... I said it once ... not involve much work if safe to add elements (element 1. png) to make a little more complicated designs, or include in the tcp one (INSPECTOR) than the mixer, which usually goes to the left of the tcp and we usually give same options as the mixer and something else ...
is just an opinion and I can be wrong... this will include 99.9% of the daws.... and that this is themeable .... course

for example :




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Old 08-07-2013, 02:33 PM   #47
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Yes, but there are likely others like myself that have absolutely no use for tcp view as all we do is mix.
Indeed, and there are some of us who do a considerable amount of mixing without needing a picture of a mixer to do so.

Albert, I do appreciate that it's not the themers' fault that tcp developments are slow and painful. I've played with WALTER enough to know that there simply aren't the items available to call to make a really strong tcp oriented theme (and I too work around it by docking a doctored channel strip next to the inspector to deliver the required amount of info.)

WT, I'm not sure what I'm missing... I felt I picked up WALTER reasonably well in using it to make a 'mash-up' theme, certainly I didn't feel as if I'd been 'kicked in the face'by taking that approach (of course it's entirely likely that ignorance is bliss).

My issue is that I appear to have a complete block in terms of my ability to use inkscape / gimp and the other necessary programs needed to actually create the raw materials. Writing out a (WALTER) list of which bits I want, where I want them and how I want them to move around each other was (for me) relatively straight forward, drawing the buggers (let alone getting all the pink and yellow bits right) that's what left me feeling kicked and unable to contribute to the theming community.

Looks like maybe Quest and I should pool our skills, you up for it Mr Wordsmith?
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:54 PM   #48
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Thx Andeh..
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Old 08-09-2013, 03:39 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by White Tie View Post
...And, in the name of all that is good and holy, carve this on your soul:

If you're going to learn WALTER, or form opinions about it, by trying to edit existing themes, its going to kick you in the face. I've made a manual, its in tutorial form(ish) ...work through it. It really won't take long and the mists will clear.
Sir, I have to chime in with a bit of positive disagreement: dissecting your emperor walterwise is very rewarding for me. The manual is the ticket, and seeing things move around after a succesful edit the reward. The dynamic code is a bit steep, but the basics are really simple.

I think adding the option for fixed MCP/TCP sizes can make things a bit easier scriptingwise. In stead of dynamic resizing just choose between small, medium and large?
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:22 AM   #50
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I know there has been a lot of talk about making one since the beginning of Walter, but nobody has really done it.
Yep, I played with the idea for awhile. While I believe it is completely possible, its a bit of dead end road unless the actual internal classes that interpret Walter were made available in some form. Otherwise, you are reduced to guessing and creating your own pseudo wrapper and every time anything in the underlying Reaper implementation changes you have a broken editor or interpretation anomalies AKA bugs galore.

Secondly, WYSIWYG IMHO would be a PIA to support across platforms for just a theme editor.
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:30 AM   #51
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Either way, it seems like a red herring to me. Learn WALTER, its dead easy. Of course I might be wrong, and let he who has learned the basics of WALTER and still wants a WYSIWYG editor please speak up.
As devil's advocate for a moment, I'd have to play the previously played notepad card. I can create a fantastic graphically dynamic website with nothing but notepad and it is dead easy but incredibly frustrating in comparison to a good editor that contains WYSIWYG and code. What I can do in three hours in notepad, I can do in 15 minutes (including testing) in a good editor. Does it fit into the confines of Reaper which is a DAW etc., maybe not but there is no question (notwithstanding being outside the purpose of the product as a whole) that it would be much better.

As I eluded, the dynamic piece shouldn't be the assumed roadblock since it is extremely similar to a browser interpreting a web page and displaying it dynamically (think CSS etc.).
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:38 AM   #52
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You know how Firefox and Chrome have built in style editor, inspector, debugger, etc.? Why not have something for WALTER in Reaper, as well? Beginnings of an inspector is the "Theme element finder"...
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Old 08-10-2013, 06:21 AM   #53
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arkima, imo did the best ever theme called 'armour' and it was dark with green and perfect for dim light. 2d, clean and simple. All the 3d-ness here is like them funny plugins that have valves in them that light up...it doesnt make anything sound better, it just looks kind of silly, cos its not what it is.
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Old 08-11-2013, 05:59 AM   #54
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arkima, imo did the best ever theme called 'armour' and it was dark with green and perfect for dim light. 2d, clean and simple. All the 3d-ness here is like them funny plugins that have valves in them that light up...it doesnt make anything sound better, it just looks kind of silly, cos its not what it is.
I saw the Armor theme. Wasn't my slice of cake, but didn't look too bad. I strongly disagree about your 3D comments. Looks have nothing to do with fooling people into thinking it sounds better. Aesthetics are what they are: pleasing to the eye. And the guys mentioned in the pole do one hell of a job on theme'ing artwork. And personally, the 3D look adds to the musical experience. Every theme does, IMO, whether 3D or not.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:52 PM   #55
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I think everything is psychology ... and also I think if you're comfortable with it as an environment ... 3D, 2D, 5D or 200D .... always be positive
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Old 08-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #56
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It's definitely a tactile thing. If things are where I'm used to them being and where I expect them to be it makes all the difference. I know for sure I mix differently in Pro Tools than I do in Logic or Cubase etc. Same with Reaper. We can say the environment we're staring at for 14 hours a day doesn't affect our workflow and our creativity but it most certainly does. I came up on analog gear and mixing on a GUI that reminds of that world makes it a more pleasing process. Does it sound different? Of course not! Does it alter my workflow? Possibly!

With that said I use Airwindows plugins A LOT! They have no graphics at all but I love them. It's certainly a debate as to whether we mentally get caught up in the way something looks and that in turn changes how we subconsciously hear it. I believe that is completely true. For better and worse. But I also like to think I've logged enough hours behind consoles, computer screens, instruments and all sorts of machines and gadgets (both analog and digital) that I know what I hear and know when something sounds right or wrong regardless of appearance.

I write and score in Ableton Live almost exclusively and couldn't imagine it with a 3D "analog" feeling GUI. It would just be WRONG! I'm so used to it. It's awesome that Reaper can appeal to everyone because its so unbelievably open for interpretation and customization. I've been off and on working on Tonelux for a couple years now but I also have a 2d them I've been messing with. I love it equally and goof off with it when I'm bored of looking at other stuff. Something for everyone for sure.
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:53 PM   #57
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I saw the Armor theme. Wasn't my slice of cake, but didn't look too bad. I strongly disagree about your 3D comments. Looks have nothing to do with fooling people into thinking it sounds better. Aesthetics are what they are: pleasing to the eye. And the guys mentioned in the pole do one hell of a job on theme'ing artwork. And personally, the 3D look adds to the musical experience. Every theme does, IMO, whether 3D or not.
i think they do a great job too
actually, i thuink the skillz on display are as good as it gets
but i dont believe it translates anything to ones mix or workflow.
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