Old 09-21-2019, 12:43 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
This is a brand new feature so anything can change, but on our side, it's just not clear yet how the advantages and disadvantages of the various proposals balance out.
I did a tests today please correct me if I'm wrong in my test results. Essentially this feature pre delays midi information only. It can not pre-delay the audio on a track because that would require a full audio buffer cycle to calculate the delay as it's not possible to pre delay audio without first delaying every other track but one buffer at least. This new feature is essentially displaying MIDI on the grid but delaying or pre-delaying the midi information by a set amount.
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Old 09-21-2019, 12:46 AM   #42
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I think Klangfarben has put a lot of thought into this. I think if this could be done... it would be a complete solution. There would be more booleans for pre-roll and count-off and record during count-off, but this would be great.

Otherwise I'd suggest perhaps the Cubase/Nuendo approach I mentioned earlier. At the very least, something has to be done to fix the missing negatively delayed MIDI notes on Play Start.

For the users that are having problems with triggering articulations or key switches on the grid, I think these users should pre roll there playback. Even Kontakt can not case cc data that is right on the grid. You need to start your playback one bar ahead of whatever content you are trying to play back. Starting your sequence at bar 1 instead of starting at bar 2 will result in all kinds of midi glitches because even if you write midi cc or key switches at bar 1 there are some instruments that just don't respond quickly enough. IMHO if we are going to pre-delay MIDI it should all be pre-delayed together for consistency. As in key switches should trigger at exactly the same time as every other part of the midi that's being delayed. And if the user writes their key switch note long enough, it will chase properly even if it's pre-delayed.
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Old 09-21-2019, 12:55 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
We appreciate the thought you guys are putting into the MIDI offset issue. This is a brand new feature so anything can change, but on our side, it's just not clear yet how the advantages and disadvantages of the various proposals balance out. The Cubase method seems really not ideal, to guarantee that all notes play at the cost of having the timing of the initial notes be unpredictable. The suggestion of doing a sort of pre-roll on negatively delayed tracks while outputting silence on non-delayed tracks -- which is effectively PDC -- could work but would probably have to be optional. In any case, we're thinking about all of this and will let it sit for a while.
Thank you devs for taking the time to help us with this.

The current implementation of midi delay seems to be really a great feature especially for pre-delaying MIDI orchestra which is notoriously late.

It would be very cool if there was an option to switch the track offset value over to PCD/ Audio delay. this way the user could calculate the latency of all the plugins on there tracks or audio busses and pre-delay them by the appropriate sample. This would essentially due away with the need for the plugin version of this delay.

I turn off PDC on all my mix buss plugins and use the currently delay plugin to manually pre-delay those audio busses. This way I can sample accurately delay each track instead of applying multiple audio buffer cycles when I have tracks with multiple plugins.

It would be super awesome sauce times 10000 if I could type in these values in the I/O window instead of having to load a plugin to pre-delay audio.
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:02 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by srdmusic View Post
It would be very cool if there was an option to switch the track offset value over to PCD/ Audio delay. this way the user could calculate the latency of all the plugins on there tracks or audio busses and pre-delay them by the appropriate sample. This would essentially due away with the need for the plugin version of this delay.
You can already do that. In FX chain window you have PDC latency shown, both what plugins are inducing, and total PDC that Reaper rounds to in buffers. So you take this former value and enter track delay in samples. Will work just fine.
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:16 AM   #45
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You can already do that. In FX chain window you have PDC latency shown, both what plugins are inducing, and total PDC that Reaper rounds to in buffers. So you take this former value and enter track delay in samples. Will work just fine.
Thanks Dragon. When I tested this today the track offset did not print as you suggest when rendering my busses. The delay plugin works with PDC but typing in a value into the track offset did not print that delay. I believe this is because the track offset feature only works for midi data. Not audio like the plugin delay as audio pre-delay requires first delaying every other track in the session by at least one buffer cycle. I could be wrong about this. Are your testing coming out differently on your rig?
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:56 AM   #46
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The track offset feature seems really useful! Perfect for orchestral mockups where some instruments have a slower attack.
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Old 09-21-2019, 03:14 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by srdmusic View Post
Thanks Dragon. When I tested this today the track offset did not print as you suggest when rendering my busses. The delay plugin works with PDC but typing in a value into the track offset did not print that delay. I believe this is because the track offset feature only works for midi data. Not audio like the plugin delay as audio pre-delay requires first delaying every other track in the session by at least one buffer cycle. I could be wrong about this. Are your testing coming out differently on your rig?
I'm not talking about the plugin you're using, I'm talking about the PDC figure reported by plugins. Reenable PDC and read info in bottom left of FX chain window.

Track offset feature also works with audio. Wouldn't make sense if it were just for MIDI.

I just tried the render to stem tracks action and it did print the delay properly. Rendering the project out also worked just fine.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:54 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srdmusic View Post
I did a tests today please correct me if I'm wrong in my test results. Essentially this feature pre delays midi information only. It can not pre-delay the audio on a track because that would require a full audio buffer cycle to calculate the delay as it's not possible to pre delay audio without first delaying every other track but one buffer at least. This new feature is essentially displaying MIDI on the grid but delaying or pre-delaying the midi information by a set amount.
You are incorrect, the delay also affects audio from track media (but does not affect audio from receives).
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:58 AM   #49
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I have founded issue with a ruler in midi editor:
By default(mouse modifier - midi ruler - left drag) - edit loop point
all ok, work correctly.
Change behavior to - No action and... as before a mouse pointer edits a loop points.
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:41 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Lau View Post
After reinstall, transpose is ok but muted notes colour still remains as non muted, strange because it's ok with v5.983

I've tried on another PC, same issue

I verify, the issue appears since the first dev build (v5.983+dev0829 - August 29 2019) after v5.983 release
Hi,
I'm sorry to insist, but i don't understand what happened with my configuration since the first dev build after v5.983 release.
The behavior I describe only happens when i color notes by "track" or "media item" in the Midi Editor View menu. When another mode ("velocity" "channel" pitch"...) is selected, muted notes are correctly colored (in black for me).
Thanks
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Old 09-21-2019, 10:43 AM   #51
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I fired up Studio One and checked how MIDI delay works there.
It's the same behavior as in Cubendo.

If you wanna check:
https://nextcloud.stephanroemer.net/...E2drjEFDWYodk3
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Old 09-21-2019, 11:07 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
You are incorrect, the delay also affects audio from track media (but does not affect audio from receives).
Ah that's where I went wrong. Thanks for the clarification. I won't be able to use this to delay compensate the plugins on my busses then. The plugin works find for that currently.
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Old 09-21-2019, 01:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thonex View Post
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=224593

The first post along with it's video should explain it to you.
Thank you!
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:38 PM   #54
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bug:
when creating new tracks the automatic arm record is on even when it is not ticked.

Record arm is not ticked.
quick fix please

thanks

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Old 09-21-2019, 07:24 PM   #55
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reaper (5.983 dev 920a) crashes for me when i try to drag a .mid file from reaper file explorer onto track and after i click OK on dialogue box to confirm from which bar/measure i'd like it to sit at.
i haven't done a fault analysis though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srdmusic View Post
Faulting application name: reaper.exe, version: 72.23.5.77, time stamp: 0x5d851123
Faulting module name: reaper_midi.dll, version: 1.0.0.1, time stamp: 0x5d850ef4
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x0000000000111e1b
Faulting process id: 0x4d5c
Faulting application start time: 0x01d56feca64a4bdb
Faulting application path: C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\reaper.exe
Faulting module path: C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\Plugins\reaper_midi.dll
Report Id: a533b31c-d98c-439e-b23b-cd838926ef38
Faulting package full name:
Faulting package-relative application ID:


This did not occur in reaper5983+dev0909_x64-install. Attached is a test midi file that I was trying to import.

Is there anyone else that can reproduce this issue?
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Old 09-21-2019, 07:36 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
reaper (5.983 dev 920a) crashes for me when i try to drag a .mid file from reaper file explorer onto track and after i click OK on dialogue box to confirm from which bar/measure i'd like it to sit at.
i haven't done a fault analysis though.
That's exactly the same symptoms I'm seeing. Seems to be the same result weather it's from the Windows file explorer or from the media explorer within Reaper.
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Old 09-22-2019, 06:01 AM   #57
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Oops, thanks, fixing!
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Old 09-23-2019, 07:34 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe View Post
Yes - perhaps another possibility would be a shorter
descriptor:

Plaback time offset --> Track delay --> Delay

It all expresses the same.
Hi, enroe

Do you think it would look good too as described below?
Time: delay/forward

PS: Is something wrong with this string below?
45FD9E199D6417A2=Set track playback offset - (does not translate)

Thanks!
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Old 09-23-2019, 03:07 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Edison View Post
Hi, enroe

Do you think it would look good too as described below?
Time: delay/forward

PS: Is something wrong with this string below?
45FD9E199D6417A2=Set track playback offset - (does not translate)

Thanks!
Yeah, sorry - I didn't think of the translation.

But also regarding the translation: The best is a descriptor
which is unequivocal in its semantical meaning, but also as
short as possible.

Currently there is: "Playback time offset"
The same meaning is: "Delay"

If this is in the track-IO or in the TCP it's clear that the
"Track-delay" is meant. Also we don't need a "forward-delay"
or "backward", because positive values always mean "delay to
the right" and negative values stand for "move forward to the
left".

Maybe you can find a short term for "Delay" in Brazilian or
Portuguese also?
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Old 09-23-2019, 04:07 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe View Post
Yeah, sorry - I didn't think of the translation.

But also regarding the translation: The best is a descriptor
which is unequivocal in its semantical meaning, but also as
short as possible.

Currently there is: "Playback time offset"
The same meaning is: "Delay"

If this is in the track-IO or in the TCP it's clear that the
"Track-delay" is meant. Also we don't need a "forward-delay"
or "backward", because positive values always mean "delay to
the right" and negative values stand for "move forward to the
left".

Maybe you can find a short term for "Delay" in Brazilian or
Portuguese also?
Hi, enroe!

Sometimes there is not enough space to translate, and the DEVs answered my request to move the checkbox further to the left.
So, inside this space I try to translate so that they understand the action in Brazilian Portuguese.

And for the String I mentioned...it appears in the session [undo] ..but it doesn't translate yet.
See the pic.

Thanks!
Attached Images
File Type: png undo.png (5.6 KB, 36 views)
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Last edited by Edison; 09-24-2019 at 10:41 AM.
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