monitoring VSTi's without latency possible?

[777funk]

I used to tick the box "monitor live input" while recording and noticed that timing (vocal or instrumental) was always a little confusing when listening with latency. With my new interface, there's monitoring (no latency) built in. It's like recording into a real board now.

But... VSTi pianos and such are still an issue. Is there a good way to monitor these? I'm having a hard time playing them like I could with a real instrument.

[Tod]

Originally Posted by 777funk

I used to tick the box "monitor live input" while recording and noticed that timing (vocal or instrumental) was always a little confusing when listening with latency. With my new interface, there's monitoring (no latency) built in. It's like recording into a real board now.

But... VSTi pianos and such are still an issue. Is there a good way to monitor these? I'm having a hard time playing them like I could with a real instrument.

Yeah, your VSTis are after the fact, no direct monitoring.

It primarily depends on your setup, Computer, Interface, Ram, etc..

If you can get the buffer settings (Preferences>Audio>Devices) down to 250 and below it works okay, at least it does for me.

[whiteaxxxe]

you should see it like that: there is always computation-time necessary. nothing in this world can be computed in no time = zero latency. so it depends on how fast your computer is and how fast the VST(i) is.

what I do is when I record keyboards (I cant play keyboard, so ...) is, that I use for monitoring what I am doing an old Kawai something sound-module with a sound that is somewhat in the ballpark. the Kawai has no latency, I record the midi-data and dial in the VST(i) and the sound I want afterwards. means I dont monitor through the computer or any software at all.

a similar thing I do when recording guitar or bass. vocals and harmonica are not monitored at all.

[mschnell]

I use Reaper mainly as a Live-VST host i.e. Midi in -> Reaper -> VSTi -> VST -> audio out.

Of course you need a decent computer and audio D/A box to so.

-Michael

[Cosmic]

I monitor my vstis live with 1ms latency..so its negligible.

All I have is a nice computer and a PCI soundcard and a bit of time spent setting the thing up right

[Fergler]

Need more info - how are you connecting your keyboard? MIDI in on your interface? USB to computer?

[Joaquins Void]

Use headphones, or sit closer to the speakers. Every 34cm of air corresponds to 1ms of latency.

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Fergler

Need more info - how are you connecting your keyboard? MIDI in on your interface? USB to computer?

You need an Audio/USB converter with really good latency. That seems to be mostly a matter of the driver, not of the hardware.

I did a lot of research before buying and found the the Behringer U... is very bad on that behalf, while the Native Instruments Audio6 is very good (for the price). Happily the NI box comes with a voucher for some nice NI software.

Many of theses boxes come with a Midi port so you can plug in even older keyboards. Modern Keyboards come with USB sockets, anyway.

-Michael

[whiteaxxxe]

Originally Posted by Joaquins Void

Use headphones, or sit closer to the speakers. Every 34cm of air corresponds to 1ms of latency.

bruhaha ... I got the image of someone with 2 ns10 taped left and right to his head ...

but you are right of course. if it is in the heat of a live gig it goes down to 30cm for 1ms latency.

[mschnell]

Did you ever play a Church organ ?

The sound might travel 20 m from the pipe to you ear.

Horrible experience !

-Michael

[777funk]

I've got MIDI going into the ECHO AudioFire8 and then into Reaper and 256 samples buffer.

I noticed with recording vocals and instruments with the 'listen to live input' checked just that few milliseconds can make it a little trickier than listening to the actual live sound into the mixer which I'm used to practicing with. So VSTi's only have the listen to live input sound.

[whiteaxxxe]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Did you ever play a Church organ ?

The sound might travel 20 m from the pipe to you ear.

Horrible experience !

-Michael

yeah, that is hell. I once played played with a church organist, and while playing, I could see his hands moving on the keys. he threw me totally out, because he was playing "lookahed". I couldnt play when seeing him, so I changed my place. but then he grooved with his head and shoulders ... in "lookahead" manner. absolute horrible. and it was crucial to see each other, because the whole thing didnt have a 4-to-the-floor-beat.

[ELP]

The problem is never the latency, the problem is always if there is a latency jitter.
1 meter away from speaker already =~3ms latenz to your ears
2 guitarists 4 meters away from each other ~12 ms from ear to ear
So without eye contact they never ever play in sync ^^

"The sound might travel 20 m from the pipe to you ear. "
that´s already 60ms latency from the pipes to the ears of the player.

And what is with the sync if you play an instrument in an big orchestra.....
Maybe from rear corner to front corner 40 meters..... 120 ms needs already the sound from rear instrument to the front instrument player......

[SonicAxiom]

This is why conductors were invented.

[Goldreap]

Even so, conductors race.. or do orchestras drag?

[Time Waster]

Originally Posted by Joaquins Void

Every 34cm of air corresponds to 1ms of latency.

That's an interesting fact. It puts the whole latency issue into another perspective.