Notation pre-release thread (part 2)

[Jae.Thomas]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

If you had followed the thread from the start, you would have seen schwa saying not in 5.20, but it will be coming later.

who the f has time for that

thanks ED

[timothys_monster]

Originally Posted by schwa

Yes, that's not right. I can't reproduce it though, can you provide steps to do so?

Just started a fresh project in 5.20pre10 and the problem was solved.

Then I exported the MIDI from the "broken" project and the same mistake occurs again.
I think I started creating this test project with pre2 - not entirely sure though.
And as if noone else got this issue, it might not even be worth looking into it

[RobertP]

Not sure if this is the right place but notation is not my thing.

Would it be presumptuous of me to assume that this feature will be 'uncheckable' in the install list come proper release?

Sorry if this has already been an answered.

[EvilDragon]

No. If you don't need it, then just don't use it.

[RobertP]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

No. If you don't need it, then just don't use it.

Thanks for the reply.
No skin off my nose, just curious.

[Icchan]

Originally Posted by misc100

Would it be presumptuous of me to assume that this feature will be 'uncheckable' in the install list come proper release?

I would like to know "why?". It doesn't seem like it's going to make Reapers install that much larger and it's still going to be x100 smaller than the smallest professional DAW with similar feature set.

:/

[kerryg]

Originally Posted by misc100

Not sure if this is the right place but notation is not my thing.

Would it be presumptuous of me to assume that this feature will be 'uncheckable' in the install list come proper release?

Sorry if this has already been an answered.

It's a specific view in the midi editor. You won't ever see it unless you intentionally go looking for it.

[hamish]

Presumptuous would be one word, then you claim to be 'curious', hmm I don't know.

Try this for size

reaper512-install.exe : 8.23 MB (No notation view)

reaper520pre10-install.exe : 8.61 MB (Latest pre with notation view)

So I'm guessing, no not an install option.

[Jae.Thomas]

let's just make midi an option.

or record inputs

[hamish]

Whoa check it out!!

# Notation: angled beams

Hey, where is everybody anyway?

[hamish]

I'm seriously amazed at this point.

I was having a weird issue with my test project, and couldn't continue it in pre10 ~ pre11

Decided to rebuild my project from pre9 and test MIDI export and import at the same time.

When I imported to pre11 A WHOLE BUNCH OF MY DYNAMICS MARKINGS WERE THERE!!

This is amazing!



According to some self-proclaimed expert on notation editors and MIDI this is not possible.

HA HA!! they just did it.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by timothys_monster

Just started a fresh project in 5.20pre10 and the problem was solved.

Then I exported the MIDI from the "broken" project and the same mistake occurs again.
I think I started creating this test project with pre2 - not entirely sure though.
And as if noone else got this issue, it might not even be worth looking into it

Thanks for posting the project. It's a bug that occurs when the key signature is set to a chord, in this case it's set to a C major triad. This is obviously a non-standard notation thing, to have a key signature that isn't a key signature, but it's kind of a nice existing feature from the piano roll editor so we'll continue to support it, but without the bug of notating notes that aren't in the chord with naturals.

[memyselfandus]

Originally Posted by hamish

I'm seriously amazed at this point.

I was having a weird issue with my test project, and couldn't continue it in pre10 ~ pre11

Decided to rebuild my project from pre9 and test MIDI export and import at the same time.

When I imported to pre11 A WHOLE BUNCH OF MY DYNAMICS MARKINGS WERE THERE!!

This is amazing!



According to some self-proclaimed expert on notation editors and MIDI this is not possible.

HA HA!! they just did it.

Excellent! Bottom link is not showing pic though

[hamish]

Browser issue? showing fine here. Clear cache and re-load page?

[hamish]

v5.20 pre11

Here are some persistent navigation issues I'm having

Navigation by shortcut:

Selecting next/previous note by shortcut is ok

Move edit cursor to selected note is a little slow (speed is normal with same shortcut in piano roll)

zooming in/out by keyboard shortcut is excruciatingly slow (completely unusable) even on my tiny 8 bar x 4

track project (zoom speed by shortcut is normal in piano roll)


Mouse issues:

When viewing a single stave in page view, a wrapped stave can't be scrubbed (see gif)




On a 64 bit win 7 i5 laptop, integrated graphics, with REAPER x86 portable install

[schwa]

All of those are fixed for the next build (pre13), thanks for the report.

[Victor_M]

Yes, the two bugs with phrasing still here...

[Victor_M]

It would be cool make something like as in Finale (visual example in attached picture), the feature with editable smart shape, slur tool (phrasing) and breaking/grouping beams (as option) for visual and printing purposes...

[swiiscompos]

Bugs with the triplets, if I extend the third note of a triplet I get a value too long.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by swiiscompos

Bugs with the triplets, if I extend the third note of a triplet I get a value too long.

Thanks, fixing. It's possible REAPER could crash in that situation, actually

[Dstruct]

5.20pre13

Rightlick context menu showing marquee select mouse cursor (square + pointer) instead of normal mouse pointer.

[pcartwright]

Getting a crash when I add a phrase to notes with octave change notation and when adding octave notation to slurred notes.

[Victor_M]

O, yeah! Thanks for improvement of phrasing function! It's now pretty nice!

[memyselfandus]

Can you guys add the bouncing ball please I'm kidding. but man would that be awesome.

[pcartwright]

Move to edit cursor action doesn't work in notation view. Works as expected in piano roll.

[memyselfandus]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

FR: Themeable notation view (background color and staff/note color) so that it doesn't kill my eyes when switching from my dark themed MIDI editor to notation.

+1000 this would be really cool

[jazzmandan]

Just discovered this new feature....

This is a fantastic. Hoping the new score display and editing gets a lot of love here in the forum to help it grow.

[Victor_M]

[memyselfandus]

Option to hide bar numbers and tempo please. And option to hide note colors/standard black notation

[creal]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

FR: Themeable notation view (background color and staff/note color) so that it doesn't kill my eyes when switching from my dark themed MIDI editor to notation.

Going further, devs, will it possible to duplicate and follow track's colours with staff colours?

Thank you for this great tool.

[kerryg]

[reposted from wrong location]: Just an important note on default beaming logic:
- there's an implied "invisible bar line" which divides a bar of 4/4 into two equal parts; all beams should default to breaking at this invisible bar line
- to respect this "invisible bar line", patterns containing only eighth notes may beam between beats one and two, and also between beats three and four, but not across beats two and three. The maximum amount of eighth notes allowable on a beam would thus be four.
- for best practice, patterns containing sixteenth notes generally only beam within each beat for ease of reading (i.e. the maximum number of sixteenth notes allowable on a beam is also four)
- the reason for this is that musicians generally practice "cells" of rhythms - all possible permutations of sixteenth notes within a beat; all possible permutations of eighth notes within two beats; all possible permutations of eighth and sixteenth notes within two beats, etc (in fact it's actually been said that "there is no such thing as sight-reading" since musicians executing a piece of music on sight are really playing back rhythmic "cells" they have already practiced many times) and notation should default to reflecting and assisting this. I would personally find the left hand from this example in post #471 http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=471 far more challenging to sightread than necessary.

(I just checked and you're on some of it already - "dotted quarters" obey this invisible bar line correctly, so now it's just a matter of the beamed notes adhering to similar logic)

This will vary in different time signatures, and was sometimes altered by composers to indicate different groupings and polyrhythms, but I'd suggest the default assumption should be this greatly standard format.

I've included a two page notation guide from the New England Conservatory - P.2 shows the basic concept.

[kerryg]

Originally Posted by hamish

reaper512-install.exe : 8.23 MB (No notation view)

reaper520pre10-install.exe : 8.61 MB (Latest pre with notation view)

OMG, the bloat, the bloat!

[schwa]

Originally Posted by kerryg

- there's an implied "invisible bar line" which divides a bar of 4/4 into two equal parts

In general, REAPER uses the rhythm pattern set by the user to decide where to divide beams and tie notes. You can set the rhythm pattern by right-clicking at the start of a measure (or using the time signature/tempo marker dialog), and you can change the rhythm pattern without changing the time signature or tempo.

By default the pattern is always ABBBB... with as many Bs as there are beats in the time signature, so ABBB for 4/4, ABBBBB for 6/8, etc. In 4/4 if you set the rhythm pattern to ABAB, then beams will break at the middle of the measure. In 6/8 you can set up the rhythm pattern for either ABBABB or ABABAB, both of which are common.

We could change the default so that if the user doesn't set a pattern, we always break up the measure every 2 beats. You'd then lose the ability to choose *not* to break up a measure, if you wanted to beam all 6 beats of a 6/8 measure together. The benefit would probably outweigh the cost though, because the default behavior would be more as expected.

[snooks]

On that note, to preserve the sound of the metronome maybe another letter could be treated as an A for beaming but still sound like a B?

[hamish]

Originally Posted by kerryg

OMG, the bloat, the bloat!

Ha ha, yeah there were some funny times discussing a REAPER score editor a few years back weren't there? I'm sure we both remember only too well.

I have to admit though, I'm amazed at how small they have managed to package it.

[hamish]

Originally Posted by snooks

On that note, to preserve the sound of the metronome maybe another letter could be treated as an A for beaming but still sound like a B?

I'm not so sure this is necessary, because as it is the visual beaming and metronome will correlate.

It's only in the cases Kerry was mentioning of

This will vary in different time signatures, and was sometimes altered by composers to indicate different groupings and polyrhythms

that the metronome and beaming may need to be de-correlated. How important is that, and is it important enough to warrant another layer of complexity over the system?

[schwa]

Originally Posted by kerryg

OMG, the bloat, the bloat!

About 90% of the extra 380k is the included notation font, fwiw.

[snooks]

Originally Posted by hamish

I'm not so sure this is necessary, because as it is the visual beaming and metronome will correlate.

What about when it's all "A"s though? The metronome loses part of its utility in that case.

[hamish]

Hmmm yes I see what you mean. To beam a 4/4 bar of 16ths in the (modern) standard way I need the pattern to be AAAA at which point the metronome is not accented.

Not sure what the solution is, maybe what you suggested before then, although I think for users who aren't using the notation editor adding another token or key to the metronome might cause some grief.

[memyselfandus]

I'm all for more flexibility in the metronome