Old 05-14-2019, 10:54 AM   #1
Liquid Fusion
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Default Need Less Harsh Amp Sim Sound - Plugin Alliance

YouTube Video - Juicer Blues Plugin Alliance Amps - Chandler + ENGL E765RT - me playing guitars / bass


Hi. What do I need to do to get a warmer less harsh sound? Do you like it? Does it work for you as blues tone. Thanks.


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Old 05-14-2019, 10:58 AM   #2
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I think Amplitube is harsh too, but not as bad as what is in that video. Eq and multiband compression can help (reaeq and reaxcomp) to make an amp sim less offensive to the ears to play, but ultimately, record an amp when it really matters.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:17 AM   #3
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I'm not able to listen to the example right now, but a good start with most amp sims is to low-pass fairly aggressively. With higher-gain sounds that start to get pretty fizzy, it's not unheard-of to have an LPF as far down as 8kHz.

If that approach ends up removing too much of the "presence", you can also just use a large bell to cut the 6-10kHz range while leaving the air at the top end.

A lot of sims also tend to have a few "whistly" spikes somewhere in the 3-5kHz range. You can usually isolate them by setting an EQ band to boost 12db, fairly narrow Q, then drag the frequency around while listening for the spike to get really bad. Narrow the band some more, isolate some more, repeat until you've got it really dialed in, then set it back to 0db and start cutting until the spike isn't annoying you anymore.

If you're having trouble cutting those spikes out without also killing the tone, a dynamic EQ (TDR Nova is great, and free) might be a better choice. Set it up the same way, but then use the dynamic portion to only cut the spikes when they exceed a certain threshold.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:37 AM   #4
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Good speaker impluses are key. Amplutube's are not very good. There are so many options though is the trouble. I'd suggest starting with these:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/t...s-free.841825/
https://www.ownhammer.com/store/inde...roducts_id=411

You can get great sounds just with those, so get familiar with a small set before downloading the other billion free files out there. You WILL be overwhelmed.

For blues I guess my favorite freebies are these though:
https://seacowcabs.wordpress.com/201...brolux-oxford/

If you go stereo, it's best to mix impulses from the same pack, so they are likely to be phase-aligned.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainwreck View Post
I think Amplitube is harsh too, but not as bad as what is in that video. Eq and multiband compression can help (reaeq and reaxcomp) to make an amp sim less offensive to the ears to play, but ultimately, record an amp when it really matters.
Thanks everyone. It's work to setup an amp. Worth the effort.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:18 PM   #6
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Maybe you tend to overdo high end in mix in general (drums sound very bright too in your sample) and it affects the guitars? Do you up high frequencies somehow?

I never touch high end, use POD farm which probably everyone (but me) thinks sounds harsh and crappy and it's never than bright sounding to me. But gotta agree with stuff above, picking the right cab models is important, differences between them are massive.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeekat View Post
Maybe you tend to overdo high end in mix in general (drums sound very bright too in your sample) and it affects the guitars? Do you up high frequencies somehow?

I never touch high end, use POD farm which probably everyone (but me) thinks sounds harsh and crappy and it's never than bright sounding to me. But gotta agree with stuff above, picking the right cab models is important, differences between them are massive.
I have used POD Farm since it came out! I am so bummed out they have left it to die. I really felt they were a step ahead of everyone all these years. The routing options are incredible. It works in real time with no trouble at all! It seemed when POD Farm came out, everyone was worried about latency. POD Farm had no trouble with latency at all. Anyone who spends any time with POD Farm will figure out that you can really get some great sounding tones.
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Old 05-14-2019, 02:43 PM   #8
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If you want a amazing blues tone, use a tube amp. At the end of the day, it will always win. It will always be better. You can pick up a Carvin Vintage 16 with a V30 12 inch in a combo for super cheap. Flip it in 5 watt mode and juice.

I can hear a lot of noise in your guitar track. A more than normal amount of noise. Does your guitar have problems? If so, a amp sim will not fix that. You could also play with pickup height. Most pickups are to close to the strings anyway. But you mind find what you are looking for starts at the guitar.

The Black Rooster Audio has a free amp sim that is amazing! And it is free! You can get just about any kind of blues tone you could imagine with it.
https://blackroosteraudio.com/en/products/cypress_tt-15

The gain is so touchy on amp sims. In the track you provided, if you backed off the gain even 3%, it would really make it bluesier, in my opinion.

Amp Sims take a lot more work to get a great tone than a real tube amp does. Using to cabs really helps a lot as well. And EQ and compression. But it starts with the guitar
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Fusion View Post
Thanks everyone. It's work to setup an amp. Worth the effort.
It really depends on a lot of things; your room acoustics, gear, experience etc. I gave up because I can always get better sounds now ITB and I'm never stuck with the tone I recorded.

OTOH it's also a lot of work to set up a good plugin chain. It's good to be flexible.

Emulation will eventually overtake hardware. It gets closer all the time.
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Old 05-15-2019, 01:13 AM   #10
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Is someone thinking a real amp is automagically going to be less harsh than an amp sim?
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Is someone thinking a real amp is automagically going to be less harsh than an amp sim?
I would argue that a decent amp is going to be less harsh than the best amp sim. But of course, anyone can screw up anything, so no hard rules.

I can tell you that I never heard such a harsh racket coming out of any but the very worst of solid state amps.
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Old 05-15-2019, 05:12 AM   #12
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One trick that I've used with Helix is to put a distortion pedal like Timmy between the amp and the cab.
Results probably will vary depending on the pedal.

Very low gain (no noticeable bite), medium low highs.

Don't know why it works, maybe it acts just as an EQ + saturation.
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Old 05-15-2019, 10:04 AM   #13
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I've used Boogex from Voxengo in the past, pretty good plugin, lot's of amp and cab sims, and it's free.

I ultimately went back to recording through my pedal board and BassBreaker tube amp, simply because of all the money I have tied up in that gear, but I occasionally use it when I direct connect my bass.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:27 AM   #14
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What units do we measure "harsh' in?
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
What units do we measure "harsh' in?
It's logarithmic, like the Richter scale, where 0 = the tone on Journey's "Separate Ways" and 7 = Burzum's "Filosofem".
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Old 05-15-2019, 02:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
It's logarithmic, like the Richter scale, where 0 = the tone on Journey's "Separate Ways" and 7 = Burzum's "Filosofem".
I'd have gone with "Cliffs of Dover" for the 0.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy James View Post
If you want a amazing blues tone, use a tube amp. At the end of the day, it will always win. It will always be better. You can pick up a Carvin Vintage 16 with a V30 12 inch in a combo for super cheap. Flip it in 5 watt mode and juice.
I can hear a lot of noise in your guitar track. A more than normal amount of noise. Does your guitar have problems? If so, a amp sim will not fix that. You could also play with pickup height. Most pickups are to close to the strings anyway. But you mind find what you are looking for starts at the guitar.
The Black Rooster Audio has a free amp sim that is amazing! And it is free! You can get just about any kind of blues tone you could imagine with it.
https://blackroosteraudio.com/en/products/cypress_tt-15
The gain is so touchy on amp sims. In the track you provided, if you backed off the gain even 3%, it would really make it bluesier, in my opinion.
Amp Sims take a lot more work to get a great tone than a real tube amp does. Using to cabs really helps a lot as well. And EQ and compression. But it starts with the guitar
Thanks. What actually happened - I took individual analog reel tracks - guitars recorded through a modded Fender Champ amp - then added Guitar plugins to each track. Overdid it. Right.
Fender Tele w/EMG 85's Bridge / neck.
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Old 05-23-2019, 09:23 AM   #18
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Fortin Nameless does an EXCELLENT bluesy sound when you dial back the gain. The cab sims are top notch.
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