Old 05-19-2019, 09:13 PM   #1
NLAlston
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Default Help with integrating Sampletank 2.5 w/Reaper

Having had to sell my MotifXF, I had jumped on the wagon of Reason 10. It's not bad, but I have sought for better instrumentation. Reaper is my choice of DAW, and I am now attempting to set up Sampletank 2.5 to use with it. Never before have I had to be involved with any type of routing issues, and I have been (all but) pulling my hair out, trying to get Sampletank running within Reaper. Very recently, I came across a PDF guide, titled 'A Reaper VSTi Routing Tutorial and Guide 2.0.1a'. I have not been able to get anything going, in following this. Am I correct in assuming that three tracks would be necessary (1. VSTi instrument, 2. MIDI track, 3. Audio track) for each desired instrument?

I've gotten a bit ahead of myself, seeing as I haven't been able to make ANY kind of headway. I was looking ahead to Sampletank 4 MAX, and WILL get it - once I am able to wrap my understanding aound this routing issue.

Hopefully, someone can help me gain a good, and proper working relationship with Reaper, and Sampletank.

Advanced thanks.
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:47 AM   #2
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Its been a long time since i've used Sampletank so i'm just going from memory here, and i don't have it installed anymore so i can't check.

Depending on what you want to do there are a few different ways to use ST but if your going for routing i assume your wanting to route outputs to reaper for further processing.
Here's how i used to do it, as best i can remember

Say you have a midi file with Drums, bass and keys, drag the file into reaper.
Track 1 - midi file, now load sampletank into the same track.
Check the midi file to see what midi channel each instrument is on EG: drums ch 10' bass ch 9 and keys ch2 etc.
Now load a drum kit a bass and keys into ST on the corresponding midi channels.
At this point you should hear all the sounds playing from ST on track 1.

Now, to route these sounds to different tracks i reaper.

Click on the I/O button ( track 1 ) change the number of track channels to 6 or more and untick the master parent send box ( note you won't hear any audio if you hit play now )
Now make 3 new tracks and name them Drums, bass & keys.
Create 3 sends from track 1, 1 to drums, 1 to bass 1 to keys.
You can do that from the i/o button or drag sends from track 1 in the mixer view.
Now click the I/O button ( Track 1 ) and you will see the sends to Drums, bass & keys, there is a drop arrow at the bottom of each send marked audio
click the arrow and change the Bass to 3/4 & the keys to 5/6, leave the drums on 1/2.
Now open sample tank and change the audio outputs to the same, 1/2 for drums, 3/4 for bass & 5/6 for keys, from memory its the further est row to the right in the red area of ST, i think you have to click and drag/down up to change the value.

Now if you have done this right ( and i haven't forgotten anything ) you should have each instrument playing on there correct track.

Hope thats what your looking to do ?

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Old 05-20-2019, 02:53 AM   #3
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Have a look at Kontakt 4, SampleTank and ...: "starter" signal paths, schematics and templates

Check out post #6.

And the same approach will work for ST4.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:29 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolffman View Post

Depending on what you want to do there are a few different ways to use ST but if your going for routing i assume your wanting to route outputs to reaper for further processing.
I am not at my laptop, right now (on my IPad), but will act on what you had written out for me, as soon as possible. However, I did wish to respond to the above portion of your quote, in hopes of clarifying my aim.

I wish to set up Sampletank (and the Korg Wavestation VST) in such a manner that I can add instruments into tracks, and play them with my midi keyboard controller. When I had my MotifXF I had created a Pattern (and Song) Template, with set instruments on different tracks. When I was ready to sit down, and create, I didn't have to spend time searching for instruments. Changes, of course, could have been made, after the fact, for swapped out instrumentation. But, a good starting point was already in place for me. I don't know if the same type of workflow could be achieved - with VST's - but I sure do hope so.
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Have a look at Kontakt 4, SampleTank and ...: "starter" signal paths, schematics and templates

Check out post #6.

And the same approach will work for ST4.
DarkStar, many thanks.

However, something confuses me regarding a portion that I read, and I ask that you please excuse my density (I consider myself pretty intelligent, but THIS kind of stuff - I'm finding - seems a bit 'out there' ). What I was making reference to is the following:
................................
Within the VSTi, load your instruments and set the routing for each one - receiving MIDI on a particular MIDI channel AND sending its audio to a particular audio output pair; depending on the VSTi you may need to do some additional configuration work within the VSTi itself (e.g. to create / enable the output channels).
................................

By that, I am assuming that none of the routing is automatic. So, if I wished to ave a 16-track template, I would have to go in and set each of the 16 channels to their respective tracks, in my DAW? And, is that to mean that I would have to change the channels on my controller (m-audio keystation 49e) also, per each track?

The light bulb will illuminate, shortly. I just KNOW it .
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:58 PM   #6
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OK, I've been at this battle for hours, now, and haven't been able to take a baby step, ahead. I've run through everything that had been given me, multiple times, yet the end result always turn out the same. I don't know WHAT THE HECK is causing such a defeating condition, for me, but it is INDEED exasperating. I know that the VSTi's and VST's that I have aren't the best, out there, but they sure would have done ME a great service.
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:58 PM   #7
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NLAlston - take a look at this youtube video and hope it helps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFKRAJzs3rE

<<TS>>
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ts335 View Post
NLAlston - take a look at this youtube video and hope it helps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFKRAJzs3rE

<<TS>>
Thank you, TS.

I have downloaded said video, and imported it onto my iPad. That's how I like to study/refer to such things, as it it wouldn't necessitate switching between laptop screens. As soon as I know that I can devote a fair bit of time towards working this matter out, I am going to set down and really get to it. It will, however, be some time today, and I will surely let you know how I make out.

Again, thanks.
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Old 05-21-2019, 09:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLAlston View Post
DarkStar, many thanks.

However, something confuses me regarding a portion that I read, and I ask that you please excuse my density (I consider myself pretty intelligent, but THIS kind of stuff - I'm finding - seems a bit 'out there' ). What I was making reference to is the following:
................................
Within the VSTi, load your instruments and set the routing for each one - receiving MIDI on a particular MIDI channel AND sending its audio to a particular audio output pair; depending on the VSTi you may need to do some additional configuration work within the VSTi itself (e.g. to create / enable the output channels).
................................

By that, I am assuming that none of the routing is automatic. So, if I wished to ave a 16-track template, I would have to go in and set each of the 16 channels to their respective tracks, in my DAW? And, is that to mean that I would have to change the channels on my controller (m-audio keystation 49e) also, per each track?

The light bulb will illuminate, shortly. I just KNOW it .
Not quite - with the steps I suggested all the routing in Reaper is fine. But in SampleTank you need to set the routing for each instrument slot. Have a look at (complete with typo):


Please note that I Muted the Acoustic Bass in Part #2, add Cranberry Sauce to Part #13 and changed its MIDI channel to 2 and audio out to 3+4.

Your MIDI keyboard controller probably send notes on only 1 MIDI channel at a time. To play a different instrument you would need to change the channel on the controller. Or in Reaper's Input:MIDI settings, map the input to the desired MIDI channel.
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Old 05-21-2019, 12:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
Not quite - with the steps I suggested all the routing in Reaper is fine. But in SampleTank you need to set the routing for each instrument slot. Have a look at (complete with typo):


Please note that I Muted the Acoustic Bass in Part #2, add Cranberry Sauce to Part #13 and changed its MIDI channel to 2 and audio out to 3+4.

Your MIDI keyboard controller probably send notes on only 1 MIDI channel at a time. To play a different instrument you would need to change the channel on the controller. Or in Reaper's Input:MIDI settings, map the input to the desired MIDI channel.
DarkStar,

I hope that I have done the image hosting right. If I did, you will see what I have setup in my program. Let me know if all looks right, to you. I don't know what else I could be doing wrong, but I cannot get my controller to register anything, via the VSTi. Sampletank's virtual keyboard will sound, but nothing can be recorded to a track. As you will note, there was only one instrument pulled into operation, on Track 1, and that's because I just wanted to say if I would get something to record in - before outfitting the track beds with other instruments.

Any idea as to what the situation might be?

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Old 05-21-2019, 02:23 PM   #11
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A couple of questions.

Do you have your midi input set correctly in preferences / midi devices ?

Have you got any midi activity showing on the track when you play your keyboard ?

From what your saying it seems like reaper might not be receiving midi info from your keyboard.

Cheers
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:01 PM   #12
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I'll have to respond in the forthcoming manner, owing only to the fact that I don't know, as yet, how to properly multi-quote. So, I'll respond to your questions in the numerical position that they were presented.

(1). No, my Keystation 49e wasn't properly set up. It HAD been, before, but (apparently) Reaper isn't holding my selected choice upon shut down. After your making mention of it, I went in and re-selected it - then tried to see if things might be in order. No change, though.

(2). As far as midi acting showing, is concerned, there is none. I have NEVER been able to get that to be different than that. The virtual will sound out, but even that doesn't produce any midi activity on the respective track.

(3). I agree with you, completely, on that.
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:11 PM   #13
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From what I can see on that pic. You need to ARM and make sure Rec Monitor is on for that Reaper channel #2 (the one sending MIDI Ch 1 to SampleTank)
Reaper channel containing SampleTank VSTi should NOT be armed.

I'm using SampleTank 3. Got all 16 midi tracks and all audio Outs in a Folder track saved as Track Preset. I just load that preset track and start playing. I guess that what you want to do too.
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bribedant View Post
From what I can see on that pic. You need to ARM and make sure Rec Monitor is on for that Reaper channel #2 (the one sending MIDI Ch 1 to SampleTank)
Reaper channel containing SampleTank VSTi should NOT be armed.

I'm using SampleTank 3. Got all 16 midi tracks and all audio Outs in a Folder track saved as Track Preset. I just load that preset track and start playing. I guess that what you want to do too.
Hi, and thanks to you, TOO, for chiming in.

YOUR work flow is EXACTLY what I am wishing to do. It was how I worked when I had my synth, and the way that I wish to work, again. I really can't say enough to express my appreciation of you all stepping in to aid me.
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Old 05-21-2019, 04:58 PM   #15
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I'm using SampleTank 3 and 4 exclusively for my VSTi's.

SampleTank 3 is installed in it's own folder: C:/Program Files(x86)/IK Multimedia/Sample Tank

SampleTank 4 is installed in it's own folder: C:/Program Files (x86)/ IK Multimedia/Sample Tank 4

When I first installed Reaper it did a scan for VST and VSTi along with every other plugin I have installed. It found everything.

When I want to add a SampleTank instrument to a track I click on "FX" for that track and SampleTank is listed and then comes up as if it were a stand alone. I audition the instruments with my midi keyboard controller - it doesn't have any sounds on it's own. When I find the instrument that I want to use I then close SampleTank and do what I want with that instrument. I'm not "routing" anything in Reaper. It seems to do all that on it's own. I repeat the same process to add more instruments on their own tracks. I'm also using Addictive Drums 2. Reaper found that as well on install.

As someone else mentioned; be sure you arm the track and have the monitor button pressed in Reaper when you want to record on that track.

Hope this helps!

O/M
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:26 PM   #16
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To my good, and very helpful friends here - the illumination isn't , yet, as bright as I know it WILL be, but I have seen a small light at the end of the tunnel. Now, what do I mean by that? Well, I had decided to give myself a period of distance from wrestling with the Reaper/Sampletank marriage, and moved towards a Reason project, that I had also been involved with. When I opened up that Reason project, and proceeded to lay down some chords, nothing was going in. WHAT?? The two blue lights were lit, showing that there was power to my Keystation 49e controller, and I didn't know WHAT was gong on. Something told me to check how tightly the USB might have been, in the port, and I found that it was very, very loose. I pulled it out, reinserted it, and gave it another try. This time, I was able to realize output to my Reason track. I began to think that, just maybe, the controller was getting just enough power for its lights - but not enough for functionality.


So, it came to me that part of the issue I'd had, with Reaper/Sampletank, might have been associated with that situation, and I immediately moved towards testing out my theory. I set everything back up and, THIS time, I WAS able to output of Sampletank, via Reaper. I was so happy that I dang near jumped out of the chair. I recorded a very short piece on one track, then attempted to record a different instrument on the next track. That attempt was in no way fruitful, but I'm not mad. It's a learning process, and some things come quicker- to the arena of understanding - than others.

There's some mighty fine folks, here, who are selfless and SO thoughtful , and who are more helpful than they may even come close to realizing. I thank everyone for their patience, with me. I'm not over the hump, YET, but that little light that I've seen was enough to fill the fuel tanks of my desire to see this matter through.
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Old 05-21-2019, 11:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar Myer View Post
I'm using SampleTank 3 and 4 exclusively for my VSTi's.

SampleTank 3 is installed in it's own folder: C:/Program Files(x86)/IK Multimedia/Sample Tank

SampleTank 4 is installed in it's own folder: C:/Program Files (x86)/ IK Multimedia/Sample Tank 4

When I first installed Reaper it did a scan for VST and VSTi along with every other plugin I have installed. It found everything.

When I want to add a SampleTank instrument to a track I click on "FX" for that track and SampleTank is listed and then comes up as if it were a stand alone. I audition the instruments with my midi keyboard controller - it doesn't have any sounds on it's own. When I find the instrument that I want to use I then close SampleTank and do what I want with that instrument. I'm not "routing" anything in Reaper. It seems to do all that on it's own. I repeat the same process to add more instruments on their own tracks. I'm also using Addictive Drums 2. Reaper found that as well on install.

As someone else mentioned; be sure you arm the track and have the monitor button pressed in Reaper when you want to record on that track.

Hope this helps!

O/M
Oscar, thanks.

You shared something with me that I didn't know. I wasn't aware that an instance of ST had to be activated on EACH track and, then, closed before recording. I'm getting closer to my goal, and every bit of info is to be a brick laid to my wall of understanding.

You mentioned that you have ST3 as well as ST4. Aside from the higher count of instruments, what (in your opinion) would warrant the heftier cash outlay for the latter mentioned version? I have searched for a comparison chart, of the current ST offerings, but couldn't really find anything. I don't mind shelling out for ST4 if it is really WORTH the difference between it, and ST3. I was even thinking of taking a possible plunge into ST4-MAX, but methinks that this version would also require the purchase of an external hard drive, to house such massive content.

Please share your thoughts, with me.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:05 AM   #18
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Good oh!

A couple of things:
(a) Do not RecArm or Record onto the ST2 track itself. That's what the 16 "MIDI input" tracks are for. And they arer set up to change the MIDI channel when they Send the MIDI to the ST2 track. Just RecArm the one you want to use.

(b) It is often well worth checking things out using Reaper's virtual keyboard too.

(c) You do not need an instances of ST2 on each track.Unless you want to freeze each instrument individually.

(d) ST4 Sounds library includes all the ST3 instruments. Scroll down to the bottom of this page:
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/st4/#sounds
for PDFs of the instruments and a comparison of the ST4 Editions. Note that ST4 cannot Import ST2 instruments. That may change, but IK Multimedia has not said.
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Old 05-22-2019, 10:59 AM   #19
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Default UPDATE.

I have FINALLY got things in hand. That's right - I am NOW able to do just as I had wanted to do, with REAPER/ST. I haven't done much on it, as yet, but was able to record different instruments onto two separate tracks. THAT, was enough to show me that the balance of the tracks would, also, follow suit. This is REALLY a huge leap, for me, and (once again) I absolutely CANNOT thank you all, nearly enough. Hopefully, at some point, I can be as instrumental in helping someone else out, as you good folks have helped me.

All of a sudden, though, much dissatisfaction has been surfacing, regarding negative relationships with ST3 and ST4. I am hoping that much of what I have come across has to do more with user error, as opposed to insurmountable issues with the program, itself. I understand enough to know that software bugs are not an uncommon thing but, also,that developers do much to work the blemishes out. It's not a perfect world, and nothing IN it is perfect. There's NO doubt that I am going to avail myself of ST4 (ASAP), and take my chances .

You ALL did me REAL GOOD.
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:09 AM   #20
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If you are running into problems with ST2, try the IK Multimedia forum or its Technical Support:

https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewforum.php?f=12

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/contact-support/mi/
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Old 05-22-2019, 11:24 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkStar View Post
If you are running into problems with ST2, try the IK Multimedia forum or its Technical Support:

https://cgi.ikmultimedia.com/ikforum/viewforum.php?f=12

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/contact-support/mi/
I realize, by your post, that I hadn't been as complete as I'd thought, in my previous post. I was making reference to my having read a fair number of complaints, from OTHERS, regarding ST3 and ST4. If they were, indeed, software issues, I would only hope that they've been ironed out.
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Old 05-22-2019, 02:33 PM   #22
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Good to hear you have it sorted, Have fun.

Cheers
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